We're doing it right now as we continue apace learning everything there is to know about Ritz crackers and some things that maybe we wish we didn't. Through mergers, horizontal acquisitions and cracker bandits we become Loose-Wiles as we apply for Canadian citizenship and propose a new entry in the PEFP canon.
Matthew's Now but Wow! - Black People Love Paramore podcast
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:00
Hi I'm Matthew and I'm Molly and this is filled out the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all in you can't have any.
Molly 0:10
Today we are talking about Ritz crackers. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:14
this I don't know how we came up with this idea wasn't it wasn't suggested by a listener as far as I know, maybe.
Molly 0:19
I feel like we did some sort of episode recently that brought to mind Ritz crackers. Yeah. And then we did it did.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:28
It did.
Molly 0:29
We're doing it right now. We're
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:30
doing it right now. Was that episode that inspired this one where we're talking about Jackson crackers or Heigh Ho crackers which were progenitors of Ritz crackers? No, I've never heard of either that mean either a deli started its deli started researching this episode. Like actually, maybe
Molly 0:44
I've heard of Hi, Ho or maybe there's some other cracker that begins with Hi. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:49
I mean, are you sure you've heard of hohos?
Molly 0:51
Well, that's not a cracker. No. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:53
Maybe yeah, like I High Hopes were around when we were kids. We're gonna see that like, like Nabisco is a cracker band. It is going to be kind of the moral of this episode. Oh, a cracker band. You'll see. Okay, cookie, also a cookie bandit.
Molly 1:06
Okay, well, so you know what I remember of Ritz crackers from my childhood is number one, the packaging which Hey, stay tuned. Next week's episode all about food packaging. Wow,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:19
you just you just let the food out of the pack. I
Molly 1:22
did. I did. So the Ritz cracker package kind of reminds me of. Okay, well, it's a little bit like the packaging for a graham cracker in that you've got this cardboard box. Right? And then in it are the sleeves. Yes. And the sleeves have no way of reclosing and they kind of seem a little like wax papery sort
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:40
of air and they're like manila envelope colored. Yeah. And
Molly 1:45
how are you supposed to reclose those things? So
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:47
I don't know. But more recently, they are now marketing. Ritz fresh stacks. Shorter. Shorter sleep.
Molly 1:55
Good god. Okay. Well, anyway, so when I think of my childhood, I think of the disappointing Ritz cracker packaging. Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:02
Well, we're Yeah, we'll definitely talk a lot about this next week about like packaging the teams designed to make the food stale as quickly as possible.
Molly 2:09
And then the other thing I remember is, I remember when Ritz bits came out, yes, because this was maybe around the same era as like Teddy Grahams other like miniature Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:22
And like did mini Oreos come out around that time? Also?
Molly 2:26
Yes. Might have also been around the time when there would be like little 100 Calorie package or of these foods. So like many portions of many things, yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:37
And like, like they they introduced like many Cool Ranch Doritos fairly recently. So I think like the the miniaturization of food continues apace. Okay.
Molly 2:46
Well, part of what I remember being you're not going to
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:50
be for saying continues apace. Absolutely not. No, I love it. Thanks
Molly 2:54
part of what I remember loving about Ritz bits is they're they're so cute. I mean, they still have like this sort of gently serrated edge of a Ritz cracker. Right. And they still have the like docking the the dimples.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:09
Yes, the seven the seven dimples and a hexagon shape for those
Molly 3:12
of us who were always enchanted with miniature things. Oh, yeah. Ritz bits were Mark marketing bonanza.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:21
Have you ever been to a miniature museum?
Molly 3:23
No, but I have there's one in Chicago because I know June really wanted to go.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:28
I think there's one in Victoria. BC really? So maybe. Okay, where's
Molly 3:32
the one you've been to?
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:33
I think it was the one in Victoria BC.
Molly 3:35
And was it good?
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:37
I remember, uh, joying it. It's just like a bunch of miniature stuff.
Molly 3:40
You know what I actually can recommend. So, Matthew, as you know, I have loved having a teaching gig in Santa Fe for the past couple years. Well, if you ever make it to Santa Fe, which I would like to I have a big recommendation for you. And that is the American Folk Art Museum. It sounds like my nightmare, but you're gonna tell me why I'm actually gonna like has this entire room that I mean, I think it bills itself as like a toy collection. Okay, but it's actually sex toys. It's actually sex toys. That's right. So much silicone so much,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:14
but no, this is so it's like like carved bone and and glass. Hardwoods glass.
Molly 4:22
Now, this has a whole bunch of toys from like, all over the world. A lot of creepy looking dolls. A lot of really big stuff and a lot of miniatures. Okay? Oh, I'm so so good. I mean, I can't even describe it adequately. Listeners if any of you are in Santa Fe maybe you can hop onto our Reddit and and talk more with more. Authority authority. Yeah, about the the Museum of folk art. Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:49
our listeners are nothing if not authoritative. That's right, just like us. I have a question about rich bits that I can't remember the answer to and kind of couldn't find where they always been sandwiches when they first came out. I Feel like I think the answer is yes. A
Molly 5:02
really good question because I, I really think they were
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:05
just originally just like smaller Ritz crackers.
Molly 5:09
I hope that they were because I feel like that's like the Ritz version of a Pepperidge Farm goldfish. Yeah, that's true. Like, that would be a really smart thing to sell. Okay, listeners,
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:18
like after you tell us about, like, what's going on in the bowels of the museum in Santa Fe? Like, tell us what happened with when they introduced trips. Okay.
Molly 5:25
Anyway, I think I didn't search the internet exhaustively for this. But what I could find was that Ritz bits came out in 1989.
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:35
Yeah. And that's like, you know, it's enough before the internet that like, there could be like, big news that everyone needs to know in the world of snacks. So like, yeah, like now there are Teddy Grahams, which are like small bear shaped cookies and like, everyone's gonna be into these or fruit roll ups, right? Yes. Like, just like these things were like huge waves just crashing over our lunchbox. Exactly.
Molly 5:56
Matthew speaking, speaking of crashing, could we go ahead and finish these days? Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:05
for sure. We got to start with the original, right? Yes,
Molly 6:08
yes. In the fresh stacks format, which I don't know, it looks like it's gonna have what like 20 Crackers instead of 40.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:16
Even less. So I think this is 12 or 13 Crackers if it's 13 like we're in versus bad luck. And I think actually, I have one more I kind of went overboard with the ribs purchasing. No, I have one more flavor.
Molly 6:30
This is wonderful. Wait, you have one more flavor stashed somewhere around here. Okay, so here's the thing. I'm gonna I'm gonna eat this. I want to put it salt side down on my 10 Oh, God. Mm hmm. Okay, so this is the original. I mean, what's not to love?
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:49
Mm hmm.
Molly 6:51
I'm here for Matthew. What do you think these cookies are? Um, what do you think these crackers are like designed to do? Are they designed to be eaten plain like one eats a chip?
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:02
So I've always gotten the impression that they're really designed with like topping and sandwiching in mind, but they are a good snack. Cracker.
Molly 7:10
Can I have the other one? The whole wheat? Yeah. So so now we have a box of receipts like original but the whole wheat format?
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:18
Yes. Now, I noticed you haven't asked about my memory lane. Oh, yeah.
Molly 7:22
I don't care. I can eat the Ritz. No. Stop touching my crackers. Okay, Matthew, tell me your memory lane.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:32
I guess I also remember when they introduced red Spitz these I remember as a kid these never being my favorite or least favorite cracker. My favorite cracker probably Triscuit Lee's favorite cracker. It'd be like something plain like like a saltine or Carr's water cracker. Although now I like those.
Molly 7:50
This is interesting. So the ones baked with whole wheat. I get the whole wheat in like the finish Hold on now I'm pretty similar they're very similar. Wow. Okay. So you tell me everything there is to know about you didn't wasn't singles.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:09
Yeah. All right. So first of all, come to Debbie country. I mean, you probably want to know about like, what what are like the the specifications of a
Molly 8:21
Ritz cracker. Yeah, what makes it a Ritz and not something else. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:24
well, we're definitely gonna get into that. But they're 46 millimeters in diameter. Oh, okay. They have seven perforations. And they weigh about three grams. Wow,
Molly 8:34
okay. I had no idea I was gonna get the measurements for it. So now I can fit a pair of pants to it. That's sure
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:42
you can you can get Yeah, first dangerous for its bits then Ritz pants. The official Ritz website is now founded snack works.com which I liked a lot. Wow. And Nabisco, maker of rich is owned by Mondelez International or Mondelez International I'm not sure but it's fun to say either way. I was gonna say Mandalay Mandalay. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. So, so when I saw that name, I'm like, Okay, I vaguely heard of this as a food conglomerate. It's probably from like Switzerland. No, it's based in Chicago and the name is supposed to be supposed to be short for Mondo delicious or something like that. Mon deles? Yes, I think Wikipedia says it was from the Latin Mundus meaning world and Dilys right, meaning delicious indo language. Mondelez.
Molly 9:31
Okay, okay. So, right. Okay. Wait, so Mondelez owns Nabisco.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:38
Yes. And a bunch of other food companies like Kraft in the mid 2000s. I think wow.
Molly 9:44
There's been a lot going on in a snack acquisitions acquisition.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:48
Yeah. Vertical integration, a lot of snack acquisitions, a lot of horizontal, even some diagonal integration. Have there been mergers? There have been mergers and acquisitions. I've read hospital takeovers there are barbarians at the gate. I think of out of business charges do you have any anymore?
Molly 10:08
A lot of trouble opening this bag of ribs. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:11
we should we should like just integrate this directly to have a merger and acquisition with the food packaging episode that we're doing next week. Okay. All right. So you've opened the Ritz bit sandwiches. Okay,
Molly 10:21
you know what I'm fascinated by? The color is different. They're oriented in one direction. Look, they're all one sided one which is the bottom of the cracker. The other side is the top of the cracker. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:33
think I understand what you said. So are you just going by like the salt rains? What are you talking about? Yours?
Molly 10:38
Flip it. Oh, yours has his top up on both. So I
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:43
assume you so you can tell which is the bottom like which which side? It was baked on just by like the pattern that the dappled pattern of brown? Yeah, yeah.
Molly 10:51
Okay. Matthew, I gotta say I don't understand what the deal is with these these cheese Philip Ritz bits. It literally contributes no flavor.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:01
There's a little bit of a creamy texture like I'm not I've never been a big fan of like kind of the room temperature cheese with a Zed spread.
Molly 11:09
But did you say cheese with a Zed spread? No, no. Wait a minute. You just came up with that? Yeah, on the flag. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:18
just turned Canadian. Can I get citizenship?
Molly 11:25
She's Zed spread
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:31
Wow. Wow. I mean, like you know the little little packages with the breadstick that you can spread your I know what you mean spread like that. I think that's the same stuff that's in here. Hold on. You didn't get any that are filled with peanut butter. I didn't get any that were filled with peanut butter. God sorry. We get spread peanut butter on a regular
Molly 11:49
you know this has a this cheese with its bread has a little bit of a sweet aftertaste.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:57
Don't care for Yeah, I don't think we're gonna end up finishing these. Oh, yeah, you can have them if you want. I do want to learn a little bit about the history of rates before we dive into some of the variations. Yeah, but the answer's no. What do you what do you got there? Oh, this is? Oh, yeah. Okay, so there are a couple of flavored ones. So I did not get the roasted vegetable flavored Ritz because the idea of a roasted vegetable flavored cracker really seemed to be out is it like just general roasted vegetables? General roasted vegetable. I don't want that. Yeah, like I love roasted vegetables. I make a many times a week but I don't want the flavor somehow infused into a cracker. Although December said they've had them and they're pretty good.
Molly 12:43
I'm here for this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:45
Yeah, just everything season one. It's like just as just what you would expect and it's good.
Molly 12:48
Okay. All right. Now I'm ready to listen. I'm ready.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:52
All right. So most of this information came from Wikipedia, although I confirmed some of it on snack works.com Okay, the Ritz cracker is descended from a cracker called the Jackson that's J A xon, which was made by the Jackson cracker company of Jackson, Michigan. However, the story gets a lot fuzzier from here, because Nabisco, which was then called the National Biscuit Company bought Jackson cracker in 1919. But Nabisco needed a competitor to the Hi ho cracker from the now defunct sunshine Biscuit Company, which was originally known as the loose Wiles Biscuit Company what? Yes, that is exactly so I told I excitedly told my wife the show Laurie about this and she said the exact thing you just said which was what this is nonsense. It was named after two people Dave loose and wild but it was the loose Wiles Biscuit Company and they made the Hi ho cracker like under the sunshine biscuit name until like the early 80s
Molly 13:54
I'm sorry but okay, this we're talking about they being the loose wild Biscuit Company well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:59
so the loose Wilds Biscuit Company quickly changed his name to the sunshine Biscuit Company for probably for obvious reasons. But if we can work the day blues Wiles into this episode a few more times, that would make me happy. No, no.
Molly 14:11
Okay. But so just to just to clarify or to reiterate, so the Hi ho cracker was made by this company sunshine biscuit calm right that Nabisco and Nabisco was like, Ooh, this Hi ho cracker is a profitable cracker.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:28
We need a competitor, right? And I looked at I found like photos of Heigh Ho crackers from the 80s. And they're just Ritz crackers. It's the same thing. So I don't know how the Jackson cracker was involved at all. Like that part of the story didn't really pan out for me. But it seems clear that Nabisco is like a major cookie and cracker thief because they stole this cracker and Hydrox from the sunshine Biscuit Company at around the same time.
Molly 14:56
Wait a minute, but hold on. Wait a minute. The Ritz cracker is descended from a cracker called Jack Sonne, Jackson made by the Jackson cracker company and then Nabisco bought the Jackson cracker company.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:07
Yes. So, my I'm guessing that Jackson cracker, Jackson cracker. Probably they ripped off the sunshine biscuit Heigh Ho cracker, and then Nabisco bought them and rebranded it, maybe?
Molly 15:22
Like why do you think the wit ripping off goes in this direction? Just
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:26
because I guess just because Nabisco has done this a bunch of times. Oh, so so like they have they have a track record as as like a snack thief. But like, like, like who? Who actually cares if like one big Biscuit Company like copies and other biscuit companies biscuit
Molly 15:44
Hang on? Do you think that there is any sort of by the way, nice use of biscuit a lot. You should definitely be allowed Canadian citizenship now. Okay. I mean, especially for referring to a cracker. It's a biscuit. Yeah. Anyway, wait, Matthew. So a Hamburglar is somebody hamburgers? What is somebody who steals crackers or snacks
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:09
Biscoff law? Pretty good. It's
Molly 16:13
evocative of the Biscoff cracker.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:15
I know which would you pick off a cracker? Cookie? Okay. Okay. So someone who just steals crackers and cookies in general
Molly 16:24
as a snack tracker,
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:26
a snack snack? No,
Molly 16:27
that's not like a jack or
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:29
a snack, Jack's? Yeah. Okay, so, Britain Nabisco is a cereal snack. jacker or crack, but that sounds like they're stealing Cracker Jacks. Okay. Jack Cracker Jacks were probably stolen from like Fiddle Faddle. Right. That problem yeah. Anyway, so so like, companies are always like stealing stuff from other companies. That's that's how it goes. Anyway, so so like, my guess is this was kind of like a style of cracker that was around and rich just ended up winning the branding contest.
Molly 17:02
And do you know where the name Ritz comes from? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:05
do. So Nabisco released the Ritz cracker in 1934. And the name and logo were designed by Nabisco employees, Sidney Stern, who according to every source, I found based the logo on a name on a label he found inside his hat. So yeah, so he's like, sitting at his sitting at his desk at the biscuit at the biscuit works. And like, I'm like, I need a design for this new cracker. Like, takes off his hat, like Kaiser says,
Molly 17:36
like, this is very like Mad Men. Just imagine totally, like, okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:43
and like, in very much in the madman vein, like originally, I mean, it's called Ritz, like, the name was inspired by the Ritz Carlton Hotel, and it was supposed to denote like a luxury cracker. And so like, I thought was interesting is like we did for our crochets, like, a couple of weeks, last week, a couple of weeks ago, and those still like maintain like a luxurious image, which does not know and like I don't know if that's just because they've been around longer or they just they chose to de emphasize that part of the ad campaign, but now they're just some I also think
Molly 18:13
the word Ritz has not like maintained its primacy. In terms of like synonyms for fancy, right. Like no one says ritzy much anymore. Yeah. Whereas rarer rochet people are constantly saying, che, and like, Oh my God, my outfit today is so Ferreira
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:33
shero with a hint of rochet. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so Sydney stern also designed the animal crackers box.
Molly 18:42
What a genius. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:43
real real advertising. Genius. Real love. What's the guy? What's it from madman. All I can think of is Bob Sack Amanda. Real Don Draper Don Draper? Yeah.
Molly 18:52
Hold on another package that is absolute garbage in terms of freshness, like being able to keep something fresh after you open it the animal crackers package.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:03
Good point. So so really, Sydney star more of a villain than a hero. That's what we're saying. Oh, that's right. Add a Ritz box appears in the 1939 Mickey Mouse cartoon Mickey's surprise party, which was a Short Cartoon sponsored by Nabisco that's on YouTube. I'm not gonna watch it. But I did. I did like scrub through it until I found okay. Yes, there really is a picture of a Ritz crackers.
Molly 19:26
I hate old Mickey Mouse cartoons hate them. Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:29
how do you feel about old Bugs Bunny carts you don't like those kind of like old Bugs Bunny cartoon? Really? Yeah.
Molly 19:44
So Matthew, When do you want to eat these like, Okay, right now? No, no, but I gotta say I think of this as a cracker that you just eat on its own. I wouldn't set this out with like cheese, would you? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:59
don't know. It's like Like it's a classic topper I think I mean like if you go to the to snack works.com My favorite website like they have dozens of recipes for like shit to put on a Ritz cracker really rich do any of these have like a burrito crocs
Molly 20:13
recipe are also so delicate you know so flaky and
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:18
yet like when we'll get to this but like they they advise you to put to really like stack them up.
Molly 20:24
Okay, I want to try the weight. Can I try the the toast it? Yeah, those are chips
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:29
right so I got two products here that I'm curious so so there's rich toasted chips. I got ranch flavor and rich cheese crispers cheddar flavor. And the thing I'm wondering about these is less Are they good? Which I betting they probably are, but do they remind you of a Ritz cracker in any way? Or are they just reusing the name?
Molly 20:49
Okay, all right. I'll be the judge.
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:51
You'll be the judge of this.
Molly 20:53
Okay, so this is the Ritz toasted chip ranch flavor. It this product is square. A little smaller. Wow. Also, there are a lot of fuck ups in this bag.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:08
Oh, I can't I can't that charming. Oh, oh, it's so good. Okay, wait. Yeah, let me give me a gift. Okay.
Molly 21:17
It's a little bit like a rich and it's flaky crunchiness but it's more crunchy and less tender. Oh, I love that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:27
It does have the ruffled edge. Oh yeah. No, no, I'm getting I'm getting like the the sort of sort of fake fake buttery flavor her ribs in the aftertaste. Wow.
Molly 21:35
Oh, what do you think about this? This has a really a really forward buttermilk flavor. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:43
generally I like ranch flavored anything and they did a good job here.
Molly 21:47
Hold on. I am flirting with the idea of calling this a perfectly engineered food product. I'm loving that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:54
Wow. I think I'm going for me. I'm gonna have to see like how quickly I finished them over the next couple of days because you can't have any more. No, you can take some. Okay,
Molly 22:03
hold on. Just to reiterate everybody. This is a bag it says ribs and then it says toasted chips.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:11
And it's sold in the in the cracker aisle, not the chip aisle. Ah, although to be fair, if you walk down the cracker aisle, that's probably also the chip. Mm hmm.
Molly 22:22
I love that. Wow. Hmm. Okay, tell me about these. Okay, so this is the Ritz cheese sperms this kind of, you know, has the looks of a a cheese it or a better cheddar, but it's a little thinner. Kind of looks like it might be just cheese.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:41
Well, it says it's a it's a wheat potato and wheat biscuit.
Molly 22:45
Wow, this is really good. Really good. Wow, this
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:49
is like real, like intense toasting on the cheese and like, it almost feels like there's real cheese on there. I am astounded by what a good product this is. Okay. So I like as a snack food. I would give this a very high rating as something that reminds me of a Ritz cracker netzero me good work. Mondelez International, but it's not a Ritz. No, no, no, I'm glad I got it. Oh, it was great.
Molly 23:15
I love this. Okay, speaking of that butter flavor, that these cheese crispers don't have right. What is
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:25
that? Okay, so, as you may know, not the cheese ones but original ribs are are vegan, they do not actually contain butter despite having a buttery flavor. Really? I didn't know they were vegan. Yep. But there is some sort of natural butter flavoring hiding in the natural flavors at the end of the ingredients list. And that's probably something like diacid Teele, acetyl propionyl or acetone. And these are buttery tasting compounds that can be isolated from soybeans or vegetable oils and are therefore considered natural flavors. And these have been around for a really long time. Okay, probably probably not totally unrelated to the stuff that you pour on your movie theater popcorn.
Molly 24:07
Yeah. Okay, well I'm glad that it's it's used to have more subtle effect I have
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:14
to like it's really easy to overdo that stuff. I am thrilled with these great great snack Have you ever had the Ritz mock apple pie recipe or ever may not?
Molly 24:24
I have not Am I correct that this is basically an entire pie filled with Ritz crackers. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:30
that have been soaked in like butter and lemon juice and cinnamon. Well, anything that you you soak in butter and cinnamon that's the idea is ultimately going to taste like an apple. Right? So I like had sort of forgotten this existed but I think I made it once like with my mom as a kid. And I know someone brought it to an eagle at party once and we like tasted it alongside apple pie. It's not as good as apple pie but it is like it's like more like apple pie than you would expect. I guess
Molly 25:00
there's like a depression era thing where people so busy, like so eager to have apple pie that they would settle for this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:10
So I it actually predates Ritz crackers, like by a long time but then Ritz crackers was like, like jumped on it like around yeah it was during the Depression Yes, it the first mock apple pie recipe on record it dates to 1812 and was a British naval recipe. And so the idea was like, It's hard tack Yeah, like, like you're out on the sea voyage and like the ships cook like, you know, you don't have apples because they all went bad like, you know, weeks ago. And so you use hard tack to make a pie and then like now nowadays like I don't think there's any reason to make it other than as a stunt because I think Ritz crackers cost more than apples. Probably. Yeah, it
Molly 25:52
depends on where you get them right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:54
But like you know, as a stunt like why not? You need some something to like entertain your kid for an hour. Speaking
Molly 26:00
of stunts, do you think anyone actually makes the suggestions from the RIP Ritz website for like, what to put on Ritz crackers?
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:09
They should okay, you just hit on an incredible marketing idea. They should make like, like extreme sports like Mountain Dew code red style red spin off called rips. Like, it's like the snack for like, you know, the like in the in the video like, you know, Shaun White or some cool young snowboard guy will be like doing a flip and like Poppins or rips. Crackers
Molly 26:32
are they like caffeinated? They're,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:34
they're caffeinated. They're also carbonated somehow ripped, carbonated caffeinated crackers. This is a great idea.
Molly 26:49
We gotta get on this if we if we're going to be ready for the 2024 Olympics.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:54
Okay, so but we need a logo look under your hat What if we're not wearing then we might our business plan might be in a lot of trouble. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. Okay. Okay, so use it what what have I done this?
Molly 27:11
Well know what like what anybody do these things? I'm looking at what you wrote on the agenda that they're okay. They're suggestions on the Ritz website snack works.com for things. Bacon Wrapped cheeseburger sandwich on a Ritz cracker. I mean, yeah, like
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:28
you put some like, like a little burger patty and some cheese and like Greta Yeah, no, not gonna happen and it's gonna fall apart.
Molly 27:34
Okay, what about the spiced pumpkin cheese cakes with chocolate? Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:37
so this sounds good. And like less work than the cheeseburger thing? I think so you make like a no big pumpkin cheesecake filling. You pipe it onto ribs like the idea that someone's gonna get out their piping bag to put something on a Ritz cracker. I'm skeptical. And then you drizzle it with melted chocolate. Again, that's a lot of work.
Molly 27:56
Okay, hold on.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:57
There's a lot of work. And once you're done, you're gonna be like, This is good. But why is there a Ritz cracker in it?
Molly 28:02
Yeah, right. Totally. No, these are things to only make if you win some sort of contest that gives you like a lifetime supply of Ritz crackers. Exactly.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:09
I would take a lifetime supply of cheese crispers or rips, caffeinated carbonated crackers. The one the one that I felt like it was most like sort of the back of the box recipe I was expecting was Ritz holiday Cristini. And like it's too late now because it's January but you top him with cream cheese raspberry preserves prosciutto and green onion. I think three of those things sound good together. And that's it.
Molly 28:34
Okay, well then can I guess which one doesn't sound that together I'm gonna guess that you're bumping out the raspberry preserve bumping off raspberry so what I thought okay, all right. Wow cheese
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:48
crispers it got like a bitterness to them like it really took the cheese toasting to the edge and I like it. I've
Molly 28:55
just eaten so many of the toasted chips the ranch flavor toasted chips.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:59
Okay, because that's kind of all I got for Ritz crackers. I gotta say
Molly 29:03
these cheese crispers what they remind me of almost as Freako Yes, yeah, that percent of like it hasn't really Lacey crunch and that kind of true like toasted age cheese flavor.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:17
I didn't even look to see if there any other flavors. Oh wait, here we go.
Molly 29:21
Bring them back. There's
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:23
chatter and there's for cheese and for cheese and herb. No, I don't want about let's stick with cheddar on this.
Molly 29:32
Wow. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:34
I feel like we learned a lot today. I've just eaten a lot today. Yeah, I mean just look under your hat and you never know what you'll find. Could be your head could be someone else's head could be a cheese Chris Perry a cheese crisper. Should we move on to segments? Yeah. All right. We have some spilled mail from listener a so
Molly 29:58
I found this one really thought We're about ready to. Okay listener ASA says Hi Molly and Matthew I just got back from a visit to Seattle. I used to live there but moved away in 2009 and hadn't visited since 2013. I was shocked by how much Seattle has changed. Since I've lived in Fremont and Ballard. Those are the neighborhoods I noticed the most changes and I felt like I was in an alternate universe where things were familiar yet somehow different. It wasn't unpleasant as not every change was bad. The Fremont Troll has a new little park next to it. The Ballard Farmers Market is bigger. Ballard has a mighty owes doughnuts now. So my question is, have you ever experienced this in your travels? And if so, how did it make you feel?
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:38
There is a second half to this this letter but let's start with this first question. Okay. Yeah. Like have I experienced this in my travels? Yes, for sure. Like, you know, going going to the same neighborhood in Japan a bunch of times, which we'll we'll talk about in the second half of the of the question also, like definitely, you know, life life goes on places close you know, new buildings get built. You know, note nobody ever really loves brand new buildings, I think but then like once they've been around for a while and like you sort of forget the fig they replaced like venue then you start to love them after a few years go by.
Molly 31:16
It's interesting. I'm thinking about the sight of the old sunset bowl and Balor sure which maybe listener ASA remembers. I like was racking my brain the other day trying to figure out like where it used to be. So used to the building that's there now.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:31
I just ran a raid on the Capitol Hill Seattle blog, a remembrance oral history of the Orpheum record store. Did you ever go to Orpheum in north end of Broadway, I lived across the street from it for many years. And it was like my little, you know, record store where I would go buy CDs, like I bought, I bought the Postal Service album there and the first the first shins album and all kinds of stuff. And it was just like a lovely little local record store. Like everyone worked who worked there was in a band. And of course, it's not there any work and close many years ago. And I think it's where Lionhead is now me. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, just like, like, almost almost none of the places that we first started, you know, we go to all the time when we first moved to Seattle are still there. And yet, there's like some aspect of the neighborhood that like transcends all of that, you know,
Molly 32:25
I would say that, and again, here, I'm going to talk a bit about Seattle, which isn't, you know, traveling from eastern shore here, but there are so many restaurants that I miss from here. Oh, yeah. And that's really surprising to me, because I will, I don't know, like, there's still so many restaurants that I love that are still around, but, for instance, did you ever go to the Longshoreman's daughter and Fremont?
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:51
That? Nothing? I went there in 96. I don't think I went there anytime after that. I
Molly 32:58
went there. I was going there in the early 2000s. Yeah, and nothing can replace that for me. The another thing that I really miss is nettle town. Whoa. Yeah, of course, was Christina Choi, I believe was her name. Who died tragically young. And that restaurant, there truly was nothing else like it and there hasn't been Yes. So like, you know, so I and I feel like that's a restaurant that and a location that was unlikely to begin with. So I don't know.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:32
I think the thing the thing that I wrote this in my in my first book, and like, I feel like it's it's like the only the only like, wise advice for myself that I've ever come up with really, is that like, you know, whether whether you're talking about your hometown or someplace you love traveling that like, you know, restaurants and shops are like pets, they probably are not going to live as long as you and you have to find a way to like, enjoy them while they're here and cherish their memory. Because like, you know, if you go through life, like expecting them to last forever, then you'll be very disappointed.
Molly 34:06
Yeah, yeah. I do have one one travel related answer to ACS question. And that is, so this past spring, we went to the bay area to visit family. And of course, the Bay Area is another another. Well, I mean, every city has experienced tremendous change just during the pandemic. But San Francisco I feel like is not even the same place that it was when I went to college or Bay Area 20 years ago. No, definitely not. And I haven't spent the same kind of concentrated time there that I did during those four years, admittedly, but something that I think was really sad for me. I mean, above and beyond all the other things that are troubling about Big West Coast cities, the homeless populations and things like that. And income disparity. Yeah, but it What was so sad to me is to see how different Chinatown was. Oh, I haven't been in years. Oh my God when I was a kid I remember we would always park at the Stockton stutter garage. Stockton stutter, wow. Stockton Sutter garage, just off Union Square. Okay, my aunt worked, worked in the city. And, and for like a special occasion when we were visiting my aunt and cousins, we would go into the city. And she always knew like all the best places to park and all the best shops and stuff. And I have very fond memories as a kid of going with my mom and her twin sister and my cousins to Union Square, and then walking from Union Square up through Chinatown. And I remember we would always get those shoes that we called like China flats, they were like sure flat kind of flimsy black like Canvas, Mary Jane. And every shop in Chinatown seemed like filled with wonder. And like new smells, and like beautiful silk things that we wanted as kids. But even more than that, I remember eating in restaurants. They're like going into these restaurants like with this this like wood paneling and the Oh yeah, curtains and I remember eating in a restaurant that had individual rooms where you would push a button for the server to come. I mean, it was incredible as a kid. So this past spring, we went to the bay area to visit family and June and I spent a day just the two of us in the city. And Jun had some things that that she wanted to do like going on a tour of Alcatraz and stuff like that. And we went to the de Young Museum and then I was like, ah, let's go to Chinatown. I figured she would just love it the same way I did. And it was just like a shadow of its former Sure. Like we walked through the gate and up the street. And I mean, obviously a ton of stuff is has closed. But yeah, it I just I don't know, I don't know if it's my memory if it's one of those things like well, no, your childhood memories never the same, but it was all tourist shops now. Maybe it wasn't to know
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:18
I think this is this is gonna like we're gonna veer off into into politics a little bit, and then we'll then we'll do the second half of the question. And we're back but like, you know, we're sorted. Like, like, I'm sort of like conflating two different things that like, you know, we're both we're both have biology degrees, like sort of, sort of difference between like genetic drift and selection pressure. Like you know, there is there is like a place that is like, you know, a shop closes because someone someone got old and retired or died and then like a new shop open. And then there is like, you know, what West Coast cities and like, you know, other other, like big cities around the world have experienced is like an influx of enormous amounts of money combined with extremely regressive local zoning and taxation decisions that has produced a vastly increased homeless population, and huge disparities of wealth far beyond what existed in those places when we were young. And that is, that has been a really bad thing that has happened to our cities. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah,
Molly 38:24
I felt so sad walking through there with June, it just felt like I remembered all these like, you know, fruit and vegetable sellers and butcher shops, and of course, like, places selling lacquer, duck, and, you know, there was maybe like one or one of each of those things that we saw. But yeah, on the bright side, we did discover a Chinese bakery that I had never been to before. June still talks about it. What did you have? We had, like a little cheesecake, which I later looked up a recipe for online and it's probably more of like a Japanese style cheesecake than anything I could find in like Chinese recipe blogs or whatnot. Like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:05
like a kind of baked like, like caramelized style or more like, like a raw like white style. It
Molly 39:11
was I'm not sure but it was very like a cloud like fluffy. It was kind of burnished on top. Okay, yeah, yeah, but like a homogenous texture all the way through to like baked cloud. Yes, it was so good. We also had a couple of like jelly roll type cakes with whipped cream and then some other type of bond that I can't even remember now. We ate them on the on the boat ride to Alcatraz. It was epic. Okay, the second half of the question. When traveling Do you like going to new places or do you prefer to visit the same places? I know Matthew enjoys visiting Japan and Tokyo in particular. But do you try to seek out new things when visiting Tokyo or do you revisit the same places you've been before? or, for example, we went to monkey bridge and Ballard for lunch and old favorite of ours. And it was just as I remembered, I debated trying a different Vietnamese place instead, how do you balance new versus old in your travels? So
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:11
I think about this a lot, like, especially because Laurie and I recently were in Tokyo, we were seeing it in a neighborhood that we have stayed in before, and wanted to go back to a lot of our favorites, but also wanted to try new places. And I think like, I often have to, like push myself to try a new place. Because I know, you know, it's not going to be relaxing in the same way as a place where we sort of know what to expect. And like, you know, I want mostly relaxation out of my vacation, but I also don't want to get bored. And so for me, I kind of want to do like two thirds old favorites and 1/3 new places.
Molly 40:47
I think that's a really, really good ratio. I like that, too. You know, it has been a long time since I traveled to a place I had been to before and had to confront this question. I mean, certainly you and I went to Tokyo together in 2019. Yeah. And we had been there together in 2017. And Tokyo is still new enough to me that even doing things we had done before still felt new. Yeah, for sure. With but with, yes, a little bit of a tinge of comfort that wasn't there the first time. But you know, I tend to really be somebody who likes to go back to old places. Yeah, like Ash and I, we went to Greece together in 2018. And we have wanted to go back ever since. And I am just hard pressed to think of going to like any new places. Oh, yeah, I just want to get right back to the same place. Awesome. So I don't know. But I do feel like this is I'm not somebody who gets easily bored. Like, I'm interested in the fact that you said that you would say you know, you don't want to get bored. I don't even know the last time I got bored. Yeah, like bored isn't
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:01
really the right word. I guess it's like, it's that it's that feeling of like, you know, I people, people vary a lot of like, how kind of how much novelty they need out of life. And like so like I need a little. Yeah, I
Molly 42:13
would say that you and I are both. We have low novelty needs. Right. Great question. Gosh, so thoughtful. Thank you listener ASA. Matthew, do you have an album? Wow, I do.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:32
This is one that I just heard about because this podcast just joined the maximum fun network which has several of my other favorite podcasts. And it's called Black people love Paramore. And it's a podcast hosted by the delightful Sequoia homes. And on every episode, she interviews a guest about something that they're into that may or may not be something that's generally stereotypically associated with black people. And so like some topics that that they've done have been the Golden Girls. The card game, Udo Reba McIntyre and her guests are generally black themselves, except when the guest is Hayley Williams of Paramore, which happened recently.
Molly 43:10
Okay, wait, hold on. What
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:11
what is Paramore? Paramore is an excellent rock band that first first got well known in like the mid mid to late 2000s and has become kind of steadily more popular since then. And they are known in this kind of in the same way that like Dave Grohl is known as being like a band of white people that a lot of black people really love
Molly 43:38
I did not know that Dave girls work is known that well there's
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:42
this Raiders there's this great interview yes with the Dave Grohl did with with Jesus and marrow where they where they said to him like you know, so So Dave Grohl like black people really love Dave Grohl? Can you explain this and like Dave Grohl? Like fumble through it answered? Impossible. Okay, it was it was delightful. And like, for me as a white person listening to this podcast, like it feels a little bit uncomfortable. Like I'm, you know, listening in on a semi private conversation, which is not to say that like, you know, anyone, anyone is not allowed to listen to this show. But I think like the fact that I feel that way means that I think it's doing a great job of what it set out to do, which is to make black people feel more seen when it comes to the the wide variety of stuff that they're into. Nice. So really good. Should we find this again, anywhere you get podcasts. It's just called Black people love Paramore. Okay, and it's not it's not all about Paramore. It's just it's just a catchy title.
Molly 44:43
Okay, great. Our producer is Abby circuit tele.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:47
Molly has an excellent newsletter called I've got a feeling that you can find it Molly weisenberg.substack.com. Well, thank
Molly 44:54
you, Matthew. You know, I would love to talk up your music for us. So thank you. Matthew is As a remarkable singer, I get like a lot of behind the scenes true
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:04
life I laid something in practice, I will send it over to Molly and say check out what I did the other
Molly 45:09
day. In fact, you sent me something that prompted me to reply back. How does one learn how to yell sing? Or like sing yell?
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:17
Yeah, like, I'm not even very good at that. But I'm better at it than I was a few years ago. And the answer is you have to practice a lot. Well,
Molly 45:25
it's inspiring. So you can listen to Matthews music anywhere that music is heard. Anyway, these bands are called early to the airport, and Twilight diners
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:35
and you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. That's right. And yeah, hang out with other listeners and talk about your favorite Ritz products or like a cracker you stole or something you found inside your hat. Yeah, everything spelled out.reddit.com. You know, I
Molly 45:50
also really, I would like some of our listeners to taste the Ritz cheese crispers and also the Ritz toasted chips ranch flavor. And let us know if you agree that these are really exceptional products.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:03
Yeah, and I'd like some of our listeners to taste the rainbow of fruit flavors.
Molly 46:05
That's right, do it. Okay, well, and
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:08
that was the closing joke.
Molly 46:09
I'm Molly Wiseman. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:10
I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
That was manic.
Molly 46:23
That was a roller coaster.