Today we get some apocryphal origin stories and corporate histories as we go viral before finally achieving Pistachio. As Lawyer Lenny schools us on soft power, soft babies and rich chocolate we taste blossoming flavored treats and look for the oily matrix before taking a trip down to a trench.
Candy is Dandy Dubai Chocolate episode
Episode 486: Korean Rice Cakes / Tteok with Michelle Zauner
Behind the Viral Dubai Chocolate: Chef Nouel Catis' Sweet Success | The Lifestyle Lab
Molly's Now but Wow! - Our Wives Under the Sea, by Julia Armfield
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:00
Hi, I'm Matthew, and I'm Molly. And this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all, and you can't have any today. We are talking about the phenomenon known as Dubai chocolate. I'm really excited for this. I've never tasted this stuff. I haven't either, okay, I haven't either. In fact, I had never heard of it until last summer, summer of 2025 Yeah, and, like, I don't, I don't know, even know if it dates back. I mean, I you did the research, if it dates back that far before that. Like, this is the thing that I noticed that this memory lane, I noticed it starting to appear around. I think I maybe first noticed it at the at the register at m to m, the local Korean grocery. Then Friends of the show, the podcast, candy is dandy, did an episode on it that I that I enjoyed, but it didn't, I didn't enjoy, I like. It didn't make me go buy some I think I sort of resisted because it seemed like a really, like trendy influencer kind of thing. Probably, well, that's because that's how it made its name, okay, yeah, but I'm really excited to try today, because A, it sounds good, and B, I feel sort of like you ever had the experience where, like, there's a restaurant that's been in your neighborhood for ages and you haven't gone there, just for no reason, everybody tells you how great it is. And then finally, like, some friends like, Hey, let's go to like, you know, fromson, and you're like, okay, yeah. Believe it or not, I've lived here for 20 years. I've never gone to froth since, and then you go to froth since, and it's good, yeah, and then you never go again. I think that this is our first viral product. Okay, done viral recipes before. I think we've mentioned that. Mentioned that we've done feta pasta, right? Like, we've done viral foods, like fennel, sun dried tomatoes. Oh, viral. I mean, like, because they were trendy, because they were trendy, like, in the 90s. Yeah, no, you're right. We don't talk like, if we're going to talk about like, a viral recipe or food, we'll probably do it like, 12 years after the fact. That's right. And in this case, I think we're only, like, a year and a half, maybe two years after the fact. Okay, great, yeah, so can I tell you what this stuff is? Please do okay? And by the way, I learned literally all of this yesterday. While doing the research, I grew nothing. All I know is that it is chocolate and it has pistachios. Okay, sort of. The basic premise here is, we got a chocolate bar that is filled with pistachio, tahini cream, and which is also sometimes pronounced kadaifi and other variations on these syllables. I am familiar with that, okay, which is, it's the Turkish, Turkish word for shredded phyllo dough. That probably explains why, when I was shopping for this, I know, and we'll get into like, like, how there isn't, like, really one brand of it that a lot of it seemed to be made in Turkey. That makes a lot of sense. Yes, yes, yeah. Okay, the qadaifi or kadaif Looks like sort of very, very fine crispy noodles. Okay, Dubai chocolate is typically milk chocolate, and the consistency of the filling ranges from like finely ground to like a paste with a creamy texture and look okay, but the kadayif should remain crisp in it. Oh yeah, I'm hoping it's singular texture. Okay, hold on. I'm like dying to taste this stuff. I know first, first, let's. Let me talk a little bit about the history this stuff. This flavor combination, was created in 2021 I'm sure that people have been combining pistachio tahini and chocolate in various ways for a very long time. But basically, Dubai chocolate was created in 2021 the combination was the brainchild of this engineer, this British, Egyptian engineer named Sarah hammuda, who was living in Dubai, okay? And the story goes that she was pregnant, and she, like, had all these pregnancy cravings, and through them, like came to imagine the combination the flavor combination of chocolate, pistachio, tahini and kanafe, which is this sweet Middle Eastern dessert that is made from karaif. Oh, all right, okay, so she worked on developing this at home, and then eventually she contacted this Filipino chef in Dubai. Apparently, there are actually, well, I found this Filipino news channel on YouTube, okay, where this woman had done an interview with this Dubai based Filipino chef, and the way that she was talking. And again, I really this was the first I knew of any of it. I don't know if this is specific to Filipino cooks or Filipinos in general, but I guess a lot of Filipinos have, like, made their name in Dubai, okay? And this guy is one of all right. His name is Noel catice, okay, and he had trained as a pastry chef. By the time Sarah hammuda contacted him, it was in his capacity as a culinary consultant, all right, and together, the two of them developed a chocolate bar that played on all these flavors she was imagining. They made a partnership and an online shop. Eventually, the partnership, like dissolved, whatever, but basically the two of them together worked on this chocolate bar that we now call Dubai chocolate, and fine tuned it until it tasted exactly the way they wanted. Okay, to the original, like when they launched the product in 2022 it was under the name fix, the brand name. Fix, fix dessert chocolate. Okay, they called this product. Can't get canopy it. Can't get canopy of it. Yeah, I get it. It's a great pun. Uh huh. The bars were made by hand, with the filling piped in and with like six to eight people working in the kitchens. They could only make like 25 of them a day. That sounds like not a business. That sounds like not a business. Anyway, apparently they continued to work on the recipe. And in early 2023 they sort of like fixed upon whatever they decided was it. I have a feeling you're going to say we were not going to have the original one made by we are not going to have the original Newell cuties. Yeah, at the time that that, they were, like, in early 2023 each bar sold for about 20 US dollars. I mean, until, until, like, then the person who bought it put it on eBay for $200 probably right. Fix. Got the bars into the hands of some influencers, and it went viral in 2024 and I guess, like, part of the appeal, I mean, not only does it sound great, and not only are influencers how everything seems to get sold these days, but I guess the the visual appeal of that, like, bright green, creamy interior, oh yeah. Was a big part of, like, getting people psyched about it. I thought even, probably even before I knew anything about it, like I could have told you, oh, it's a chocolate bar that's green. Oh, okay, okay. And of course, it didn't hurt that, like, Dubai is associated with, like, wealth and high technology and trends. You know, especially among these young infants, they'll build an artificial island at the drop of a hat. I really loved, actually, that I found this really interesting Time Magazine in an article about Dubai chocolate, they referred to it as a successful form of gastro diplomacy. Okay, they mentioned this concept called soft power, like as opposed to hard power, which would be coercion, right? Yeah, so like that. This candy is an example of soft power, of like a country or people taking things that that are readily available, or like things that are desirable about their homeland, and sort of shaping perception so that these things become desirable elsewhere? Sure. So I think that, yeah, this reminds me that many, many years ago, I was asked to write an article for the Korea Herald, which I believe is an English language newspaper in South Korea about like, perceptions of Korean food in north in the US. And I don't remember whether it was a good article, but I worked very hard on it. And, like I remember at the time, this was, like the early 2000s it was really unclear whether, like, kimchi could ever be popular in the US that, like, you know, that there were a lot of things about Korean food that were that were like, appealing to, like many Americans. And like, you know, the Korean food was starting to become more popular, but, but kimchi was a real sticking point. And, man, everyone loves kimchi now, right? Everybody loves kimchi like, I think, I think I was, I was very small minded about like, I liked it, but I still was like, you know, no way. Like, you know, this is anyway. I Yeah, we're gonna link to that interview with Noel catice on YouTube. It's delightful. Okay. Anyway, of course, there are tons of imitators now worldwide. Noel catice has gone out on his own and has his own brand of it. Large scale manufacturers like lint started making this stuff, and they called it Dubai chocolate, right? It's always labeled Dubai chocolate, yeah, and I don't that was not. My understanding is that was not what it was called in the beginning, right? So there have been lawsuits about the use of the word Dubai, like people saying, well, that implies that it's all made in the UAE. But what's that? What's the name of that character you were just doing? Oh, that's, that's lawyer Lenny, okay, great. Or lawyer, I like lawyer Lenny,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:55
okay, perfect. Anyway, it's Lenny Kravitz. That's. That's right, I have got, I'm just wearing a leather vest with nothing underneath it. Your Honor, this trial ain't over till it's over to the jury. Are you gonna go my way? Give me what Mama said. That's a song. Okay, yeah. Anyway, what I really loved is that in the part of Wikipedia where they were talking about these lawsuits over, like, the use of the word Dubai, it said, according to a lot of legal scholars, I love the idea that there are a lot of legal scholars working in the realm of, like, chocolate naming Well, I mean, yes, I get it anyway, okay, there are, but like in trademark law, there are a lot, sure, no, but according to people who know, the term Dubai chocolate is a generic name and not a geographical indication. Okay, that's good because I wouldn't, I wouldn't want the authorities to come and confiscate our Dubai chocolate before we get to taste it. You
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:06
can we taste this stuff? Yeah, already start so, so, like, I didn't have any sense that there was like, any like particular brand that you're supposed to buy, but it's sold everywhere. So I got like, two at Safeway and one at m to m. This one here is a hazelnut variation, which I got just because I like hazelnut anything. But these, these two are, like original, like pistachio. Okay, we should start with one of these two. This one, both of the ones you have in front of you are made in Turkey. Yeah, this one is, I'm not sure how to pronounce in Turkish. I'm not sure how to pronounce a C with a sedia underneath it. I think it's similar to French so bull see, yeah, I don't know. And then we've got one that's made by b max. I think this one looks like, it looks like a higher quality product. Yeah, the packaging on the B max one is really good. And it reminds me I've got a golden ticket, the big guy for the big guy from Big Hero Six. Wait, hold on, hold on. Wait, I just want to, I'm not gonna eat. Open it. Wow. Okay, both of these are milk chocolate. This is a big bar. That's a big boy, and it's thick. That's one thing I've observed about Dubai chocolate. The bars gotta have. It's gotta have room for all that, all that moose. Now this, the filling is not, it's not, it's not incredibly green. It's sort of the green of pistachios. Oh, it's got some crispness, wow, hmm. It's like if you took, oh, okay, halva and Nougat, and they had a baby, and they had a baby, but the baby was somehow softer. Yeah, babies usually are softer than their parents, at least for a while. I think this is really good at first first bite, I was like, I'm not really getting enough pistachio flavor. But then it blossomed. It blossoms. I feel like I even get some of the tannins. Man, it's got a texture that is kind of crispy, almost a little bit gritty, but not in a bad way. Yeah, I would, I would 100% buy this again. How much was this? I think it was like $13 okay, well, this is a big bar. And this stuff is, is rich. And as little one, this little, how much is this bar? 30 grams, one ounce. This one ounce bar was $2 Okay, and this one, the B max brand, which is what we've tasted first, is 200 grams. What's that like? Seven ounces? Okay, yeah. And this is in a fancy, like, gold box. Yep, I'm into this. I'm here for it. Okay, let's taste this other one. This one looks like just a section of the B map, b max one. This one is a little bit more green on the inside. I wonder. This has green coloring, hmm, not nearly as creamy. But then again, the dimensions of the bar such that it can't have as much filling. No. This one has, like more of a toastiness to it, though. I like them, almost a honey quality I got for a second in there. They're really different. Honestly. I might like this cheaper one better. It's just got more toasted nut character to it. I can't decide if it's a toasted nut or if it's a could be like flavor of the chocolate could be anyway. I certainly like them both. The chocolate on this one is a much more dominant flavor. It's a little bit thicker, whereas the chocolate on the B max is a little thinner, which is the opposite of thicker. Thank you. Is That? Is? Was that? Mr. Etymology, popping. That's right. Mr. Etymology. What's the origin of the word thick with 2c Okay? Matthew, yes. Oh god, you're right now that I taste this one again, the B max one, yeah, it feels much sweeter and less complex. Yeah, that's interesting. No, I really, I do think I like this, this bull seed brand better. Okay, now this is what brand is this. This is far retail. This is, this is kind of a square bar with lots. Of lots of cacao beans and hazelnuts on the packaging. This is not giving me hazelnut No, it's giving me flavoring. This one's not very good and, like, it's not pistachio. I don't know why I bought it. I mean, I do like hazelnut chocolate, but this is not very good hazelnut chocolate. I think that the concept of Dubai chocolate is what they were going for here. This sort of filled chocolate bar with a creamy nut interior with a crispy element, but it's not even that crispy. No, you're right. The Dubai chocolate is a little bit one note. I mean the b max. I gotta taste this one again. Yeah. This is, this is 100% the one I would buy again. It's the bullseye brand. But I certainly don't dislike the b max. I bet if I tasted the b max again tomorrow, it'll be new to me again after you let it age in your chocolate cellar. That's right. Wow. Okay, I get it. That's good. I like it when we taste something and it's good. Remember when we tried that soda that like, allegedly healthy soda, that was terrible. I've seen so many people drinking that since, and I've been like, ew, today's a better day. It is a better day, okay. But Matthew, so the the popularity of this stuff has been pretty mind blowing. In the UK, the lint variety was so popular that Waitrose, you know, the supermarket chain I shopped at Waitrose every day in Scotland. Waitrose is pretty great. They they had to set a limit of two bars per person for a while. I noticed it safely. I didn't get it because I was sure it wasn't going to be good. And it was like $13 there was Russell Stover, Dubai chocolate. I know I wonder how many places are, or how many companies are doing that thing where, in order to achieve, like, quote, unquote, pistachio, they're just using almond extract. You know what? I mean, yeah, did you just, what were you laughing at? How it squishes? No, I was laughing. You said, in order to achieve pistachio, pistachio is a tier of in order to it's a tier of achievement, yeah, like in Maslow's hierarchy of human needs, that's right, that's exactly I thought it was just a euphemism for orgasm. But, yeah, I am so embarrassed to say the word orgasm on air, I have to say pistachio. Pistachio. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, at the popularity of Dubai chocolate has exacerbated the shortage of pistachios worldwide since 2024 so people go easy on this stuff. Okay. Anyway, I recently went into the there's a relatively new H Mart in Ballard. Yes, I've been wanting to go, and I was, I was hoping to get your report. Is a good story. It is a really good store. I can't wait to get back there. Yeah, we're definitely unabashed H Mart fans. Oh yeah, my entire family went. I think it was Saturday night, nice. It was a pretty great once, once I went there and I cried, and then I wrote a book about it. Oh, wow. Are you Michelle's honor? You mean, friend of the show Michelle's on? Yeah, yeah. We should link to our episode with Michelle's honor. They're selling a bunch of Dubai chocolate at h Mart, so check it out. Or at least they were as of the taping of this show. Okay, anything else, I don't think so. I'm glad, I'm glad we finally tried this, and like, I look forward to trying the next viral food. May they all be this tasty. Yeah, what do you think the next one's gonna be? Maybe some sort of, Oh, I know nobody's thought of this one before, bacon in chocolate. Oh, okay, like bacon in dessert. Yeah, nobody's ever done that before. Sun dried tomatoes. Sun dried tomatoes, maybe, like, what if they took potato chips and put them in a can? No, What? What? Like a, like an oil drum, okay, okay, yeah, with, with the oil. Oh, it seems like you could maintain. Do you think the potatoes would keep their crisp texture? Yeah, cuz, Yeah, cuz they're like, in an oily matrix. Yeah. Have you seen the movie The oily matrix? All right, okay, all right. Matthew, do we have any segments? We sure do. We've got some spilled mail. Do
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:26
and it's from listeners, Mark and Hallie who write Dear Matt and Molly. Just wanted to drop a note to thank you for the coffee jelly episode. It came at the perfect time, a day before my wife and I are leaving Tokyo. I was listening last night and perked up when you started talking about Kisa 10s. We had made it to coffee aristocrat Edinburgh in Shinjuku last week and decided to visit another today in Ebisu because of the episode. Sure enough, coffee jelly was on the menu. It was served with banana slices whipped cream and a scoop of vanilla ice cream. It was excellent. No regrets from the 4pm coffee jelly, siphon coffee and healthy dose of secondhand smoke. We're longtime listeners. Seattle neighbors, we love listening to the show best, Mark and Hallie. Oh, thanks, Mark and Hallie. And what a delightful trip. It sounds like, Yeah, the thing they had with the bananas and whipped cream and ice cream and coffee jelly is a version of pudding, pudding, a la mode, but it sounds like with coffee jelly instead of pudding. Oh my gosh, classic quesa tent dessert. Okay, I I'm a little skeeved out by, like, banana flavored things, but I could be convinced, but, I mean, like including things just with banana slices. Banana slices, yes, but not banana jelly. That might be hard for me, but this, this didn't have banana jelly. It had been, you said banana jelly. I didn't mean to. Oh, okay, oh, I love the thought of banana slices and coffee jelly. By the way, did someone, a listener, mentioned that there is, there's like, coffee jelly mix that when people make it at home in Japan, typically they use, like, a powder from a box, that's like an auger, and coffee powder. I got some, but I haven't tried it yet. Also, when I was at h Mart, my older kid and I were both reflecting upon what we were looking at, this whole wall of jelly drinks in pouches. Oh, is this a new thing? I think it's gotten relatively new, more popular, but it's not that new. Well, so grass jelly drinks have been popular like particularly in, like, China, Taiwan, for a long time, sure, but like, other couch mechanism where, like, you can even reach into a freezer take out a cup of ice that they've got ready for you at h Mart. Okay, the jelly, no, actually, actually, now I realize I don't even, I can't even visualize what you're talking about. Maybe this is new, and I want to try it. Okay, it's like a whole, it is a huge display along the back wall. Did you try one? We did not try Okay, let's, I want to go to the New Age Mart with you, and let's get some jelly drinks. Yeah, cool, Molly. Do you have a now? But, wow, I sure do.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:02
Okay, so recently, I was following some sort of book recommendation from the New Yorker. I get these, like book recommendation emails from them, and it took me to some sort of, like spooky lesbian book or something that wasn't out yet. So I pre ordered it, but then it suggested some other things, you know, algorithmically or whatever. And one of the books it suggested was called our wives under the sea. This is a great book title, yeah, our wives under the sea by Julia Armfield, who is a British a queer British writer. This is her first novel. She'd written a collection of short stories before. This she has a newer novel out that, actually, I've just checked out of the library. Nice. This is a, it's essentially a queer love story, but it has elements of body horror in it. And it's just, it's quite dark. I mean, it's a very sad end. Oh yeah, under the sea, it's very dark. It's extremely dark. It's told there are two different narrators, Mary and Leah, who are wives of each other. Got it? Yeah, Leah does marine research, and she goes on this work trip where she is this is like, exactly like the work trips you and I go on. She gets in a submarine and she's going to be gone for three weeks. Wow, they're going, like, deep in some trench or something. Yeah, right. This is next corporate retreat. Pick your favorite trench. Okay. Anyway, it turns out, instead of being gone for three weeks, she's gone for six months. And there are a lot of questions, of course, written into this narrative, and they never get answered in a way that I really like that kind of stuff down with that. I like the movie limbo. So you're hearing a lot from from Leah's point of view about what happened in the submarine. Oh, and then you're hearing from Mary Leah's wife about what is going on with Leah when Leah gets back. Oh, and it's, it's spooky. It is. You've done a really good book talk here, ominous. I freaking loved it. So that is our wives under the sea by Julia Armfield. And heads up, it's sad, Matthew, you might hate it. I mean, I think, I think this might be one where I'd prefer to, like read the Detailed Summary than to read the book, because it might be too intense for me, but I loved your I loved your book talk. And I think a lot of listeners are just ran to buy this book. It is intense. And I will also say the audio book I really enjoyed. And it's only six hours long. You have, like, a lot of burbling noises in the background. I loved it. It, you know, queer, body horror, ominous, mysterious, spooky. Okay, I like all of it like, does she look? Does she come back, changed? Not gonna answer that. Matthew, so is it called our wives under the sea? Because one of them was literally under the sea, and the other one is like, like, figuratively under the sea. I think you're just gonna have to read it. Fine. Have so many questions. All right. Our producer is Abby sorcitella. You can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. You can chat with other listeners at reddit.com/r/everything, spilled milk. Have you been literally or figuratively under the sea? Yeah, yeah. Did you eat a sea cucumber? Let us know. Fantastic. Thanks for listening to the show. Spilled Milk, that is the show that's Oh Molly's Molly's office. She's following a rabbit down a rabbit hole, the show that you can't get a canape of. I'm Matthew Amster-Burton. I'm Molly Weisenberg.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:41
All right, brohim, all right, bro ski, all right. I.
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