We're switching things up for Producer Abby's birthday and thank ourselves before secrets are revealed. We have a brush with a concussion and anoxic pockets as we taste a panoply of pickles then discuss their role in cuisine and in our lives as the universal friend before we decide to just close our eyes and keep crunching.
Matthew's Now but Wow! - K-Foodie meets J-Foodie
Early to the Airport - Operation Meteor
Speaker 1 0:00
Hi, I'm Matthew, and I'm Molly. And this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all, and you can't have
Molly 0:10
any today. We are talking about Japanese pickles. Yes, this
Speaker 1 0:15
was suggested by listener Talia. Thank you. Listener Talia, and oh, it's producer Abby's birthday. Yay. Birthday. Producer, Abby, should we sing a song? We've already determined that we love it when people burst into songs. Yeah. Okay, great. Happy birthday. A different song. Oh, how about, Okay, how about don't stop believing
Molly 0:35
or no, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day for a neighbor. Would you be mine? Could you be mine? Won't you be my? Producer?
Speaker 1 0:44
Abby, yeah, but also my neighbor? Okay? Yeah, she is your neighbor. That's right. Okay. So happy birthday to producer, Abby, thank you to listener, Talia, and thank you to us for everything we've done for being here. It's been weeks since we've done this in person, that's right, because I was, I was traveling, and then,
Molly 1:04
like, then Thanksgiving. We're recording this in early December.
Speaker 1 1:08
It's the heart of the like, I can hear those sleigh bells Ringling
Molly 1:12
jing jing jing jingling. Do, okay, hey, Matthew, so Japanese pickles. This is what? Kimono?
Speaker 1 1:21
Yeah, that's one. That's one word for it. Yeah. Okay, okay, did I say that wrong? No, really? Yeah, kimono, skimono, okay, yep. Mr. Etymology, I hear is back from sabbatical. Is he and has some tales to tell?
Molly 1:34
Ah, we'll have to listen for the knock. So Matthew, let's talk about Japanese pickle memory lane.
Speaker 1 1:40
Okay, so I have a bunch. As you might expect, I don't have any strong memories of Japanese pickles from before my first trip to Japan in 2010 but I have lots from various trips to Japan over the years. Nishiki Market in Kyoto is like the big market in the middle of town. My brother and his girlfriend just took their first trip to Japan and had a wonderful time tasting all the things at Nishiki Market. But it is especially known for, like, some stalls that have lavish displays of pickles. Oh, in 2012 I took a pickle class with Elizabeth Ondo, a cookbook author and cooking teacher. It was a really fun and, like, really, like, serious class. We got into, like, not all the varieties, because, as we'll see, there are so many. We're not going to begin to cover them all on this episode. But like, we made some pickles. Like, in her kitchen, she showed us her, her Nuka pot, which is her rice bran fermenting drawer, basically, really cool. Okay, I've got more. One time friend of the show, Becky, selling it, and I went to a pickle buffet with my friend mai in Kyoto, to this restaurant that really just serves so I think there may have been a couple of like cook dishes with pickles in them, but really what I remember was like a huge buffet of pickles, pickle tempura and rice and probably soup. It was so good. And then probably the single best pickle plate that I've had in Japan was at a little restaurant called nogata gyoza, which now has several locations. I think this was the original one in nogata in Nakano ward of Tokyo. It was just like four, like perfectly house pickled items. So the one I really remember was the gobo or burdock root that was like, sort of like dye, naturally dyed to look like a carrot. So you pick it up thinking, Oh, this is like a pickled carrot stick. I know what this is gonna taste like, and then it's totally different. It was great.
Molly 3:29
Oh, that's so fun. You know, I just remembered hearing you talk that. I think my first encounter with Japanese pickles was when I was a kid getting futomaki rolls at Tokyo sushi in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, they always had, you know, there was always some, like, neon yellow pickled daikon in there. There was always a little bit of, like, a pickled plum type thing. I think that was my first time encountering Japanese pickles, full stop, okay, but, you know, here in Seattle, have you been to Wayland mill?
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:03
Believe it or not, like, this is not a funny story, but I tried to go to Wayland mill one time and got a concussion. Instead, I don't think I actually had a concussion. I think they just wanted to monitor me for a concussion. Wife, the show, Lori, was like, let's go to Wayland mill for breakfast. Like, this sounds great. Like, hop out the front door and, like, immediately slam my head on a tree branch in front of in front of my house, and like, like, fell to the ground and then went to urgent care instead of Wayland mill. Oh, man, I find now, how do I not know about and the branch has now been sawed off. Hold on. How do I not know about this? I didn't tell you because I was embarrassed, so now telling everybody
Molly 4:42
you were too embarrassed to tell me,
Speaker 2 4:44
yeah, wow. Okay, I didn't want you to worry about me. Oh, but I always worry about you, Matthew. I always worry about you too. Oh, so sweet. All this
Molly 4:54
worrying. Okay, anyway, Waylon mill,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:58
but it sounds good, by the way, if. Wasn't wayland's Mill. Wayland Mills fault that I got. Yeah, I was gonna say this sounded like I was blaming them, nothing of the sort. That's right.
Molly 5:08
So Wayland mill is a cafe that's run by the same folks who own st bread here in Seattle. Wayland mill opened, I think sometime in 2025 I had this wonderful breakfast there last November. You know, as of the time of this show coming out, last November, it was a bowl of rice with butter and furikake miso soup, a plate of pickles. And one other thing that I am completely blanking on. Can't remember if it was an omelet or something like that, but anyway, the pickles were delicious. Really great Japanese pickles. And I should say that both st bred and Wayland Wayland mill have a strong Japanese bent to their menu. So, yeah,
Speaker 1 5:53
yeah, I would like to go there. Like, will I? Will I? Like, have, like, a Frison of fear when I set out for Wayland mill, yes. Like, am I gonna get hit on the head with something else?
Molly 6:02
Maybe. Okay, so, Matthew, this is a huge topic. How are we gonna do this?
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:06
Okay, so, like, I would say, like, I think it's fair to say, like, that Japan and Korea have, like, the two most sophisticated pickling cultures in the world. And like, you can read a whole book about Japanese pickles, and then, like, need to get the next book. There are so many different styles. Like, there are so many different like, things that get pickled, mostly vegetables, but not exclusively. I look like, you know, fermentation is, like, a popular thing in general these days. Like, there are a lot of books on Japanese pickling in English. I noticed there is a book just on Japanese rice bran pickles in English. So, like, this is going to be like, the barest scratch of the surface, like the highest level overview. And we're gonna taste like one pickle that I made myself, and then a bunch of commercial ones, okay, I will say up front a commercial like, pickle that's designed to, like, live in the refrigerator, kind of shrink wrapped for a long time, is never going to be as good as, like, the fresh pickles that you got at Wayland mill. Or, like, you know, ones that are, like, made fresh, but some of them will be quite tasty, fantastic.
Molly 7:08
So first of all, do we need a visit from Mr. Etymology? We sure do.
Unknown Speaker 7:12
Okay, it's me Come in. Did I get it right?
Unknown Speaker 7:17
Yes, you did. Yeah. Oh, it never gets old. Friday.
Molly 7:26
Hi. Mr. Etymology, hi, it's me.
Speaker 1 7:28
Mr. Etymology, I am back from sabbatical, and like, I had such a productive sabbatical. What'd you do? So I invented some new words.
Molly 7:35
Oh, cool. Do you want to share any of them with us?
Unknown Speaker 7:38
Yep, like the word gramble, for example.
Unknown Speaker 7:44
It's, what
Speaker 1 7:47
is it? It's when grandma goes for, goes for, like, a meandering walk,
Molly 7:52
oh, a memory care kind of situation, she needs to be in memory Possibly, yeah, yeah. She went out for a grandma
Speaker 1 7:59
went out for another grammar, yeah? Like, adds a bit of levity to what's really a very sad situation. Any other words, God, I hope so, because I don't want to end on that one, yeah, velvet, squeeze.
Molly 8:12
I was thinking of Twinkle, twinkle, twinkle.
Speaker 1 8:15
Twinkle is good, yeah, I don't want to say the thing I said previously.
Molly 8:19
Again, no, that seems like improv is hard. That seems like a brand of lube. It does velvet squeeze.
Speaker 1 8:26
Yeah, I'd buy it. Okay, so what was the thing you did?
Molly 8:31
Trinkle. Trinkle, yeah. Trinkle, it's the sound that a charm bracelet makes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:36
Yes, that's speaking as Mr. Etymology. That's exactly what it means. Okay? But I also have, I have a little bit to tell you about about words, words for Japanese pickles. So there are two words that are commonly used in Japanese for pickles. There's skemon, oh, which, which you already mentioned, which, scary is a verb meaning, like to dip or soak, or, by extension, to pickle thing. So it's like, dipped things, okay? Mono. And then often, when you see, when you see, on a menu, like an item, meaning, like a pickle plate, that will often be written as O Shinko, okay? And always like the, what's the word I'm looking for?
Molly 9:14
It's, it's, it's from Irish, like, O'Reilly, right? Yes. It's like, Shinko, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 9:20
So it means, it means of the No, it's the O is like the honorific, and then Shinko means, means, like the fresh and fragrant. Okay, this is a word that has, like, changed in meaning over time. Fragrant is kind of like a euphemism for smelly, and like, originally, this word came from a word, a similar word for miso that meant, like, the fragrant one, meaning the smelly one. Okay, not that they start like, smell bad, but like, you know, are on the on the edge of, like, you know, this is, this is a funky smell that, depending on what you're bringing to it could be a positive or negative experience, you know.
Molly 9:58
Okay, okay, so you're. You're more likely to see o Shinko on a restaurant menu, yeah, so, as opposed to skemon, oh,
Speaker 1 10:04
yeah, it really, it tends to indicate, like, a plate of pickles. Like, like, if you were making a pickle at home, you probably wouldn't say, like, I'm making o Shinko. You'd say, like, yeah, the specific thing you're making, or, like, you know, I'm making skemon.
Molly 10:15
Oh, okay. Oh, thanks, Mr. Etymology, bye.
Speaker 1 10:21
Wait, does does Mr. Etymology have like a like a just knocked? That's right, when it's time, really, he knocks and says, goodbye, it was me. Oh, man, we're the worst.
Molly 10:42
Okay, all right. So, so Japanese pickles, like, what role do these play in the cuisine?
Speaker 1 10:47
Okay? So, like, as you've mentioned, like, you know, there are places that they show up, like in in a dish, like, you know, in a futomaki, or, like, you know, cooked as tempura in a special pickle restaurant. Mostly they are like a palate cleanser, side dish, snack to eat with rice.
Molly 11:03
Would this be akin to like banchan Korean cuisine? Yes, okay, there are
Speaker 1 11:08
different like things that would be considered Bon chon in Korean cuisine that would not be considered skimono. It's more skimono is like, more more like, specifically like sort of salted, pickly items, whereas Bon chon is more, is more broad, but, but, yes, but it serves a similar function in the meal. Like, you know that this is, this is kind of like a thing that is going to be part of many, many meals. And like, you know, a lot of, I wouldn't say everybody, but many, many people in Japan eat pickles every day. It's never a surprise for a pickle to show up, like as a little side dish as part of a meal, and it's never unwelcome. Wow.
Molly 11:43
Pickles the universal friend. They're consistent. They always show up. They're always welcome.
Speaker 1 11:48
They're sometimes they're bobbing around in a jar. They're good listeners. They're great listeners. Yeah, too much. These, this, we have like, five kinds of pickles in front of us, and they've listened to everything we said. They have some thoughts.
Molly 12:01
So what are the most common pickles in Japanese cuisine?
Speaker 1 12:05
Okay, so I would say the most commonly pickled items are Daikon, carrot, eggplant, cucumber, celery. Oh, celery, yeah. Celery may be like the like new, new kid on the block among those, but like, very common, okay, and Eggplant. Eggplant is, like, not at all new and very, very common. I don't think I've ever had pickled eggs. Well, you're gonna, I am like, will, will you be able to tell, like, which? Which of these things is the pickled eggplant? I think we'll figure it out. Is that the is that pickled eggplant? Some of it is, it's a mix of different vegetables.
Molly 12:38
Okay, okay, here we go. Yes, surely there are some we're like, not gonna get to talk about, but we should maybe kind of nod in their direction, yeah.
Speaker 1 12:45
So they're, like, three big ones that, like, we're just not gonna get to on this episode, and like, we might, they might come up in the future, probably so, like, pickled ginger, you know that you would eat, like, little slices of with with sushi, or, like, you know, the the Benny shoga, the like, the the shredded, like dark red ones that you would have, like, with curry or Tonkotsu Ramen or, like various other things. We'll, we'll probably do an episode on that.
Molly 13:09
Let's do an episode on that, because I'm really interested in the red coloring.
Speaker 1 13:14
Yes, okay, we'll talk about that. Umeboshi pickled plums or Japanese apricots. That's a whole item of it, yeah, it's, it's not something that's going to show up on a pickle plate. Most likely it's, it's sort of a serves a separate function. And then minma, which are, which are fermented bamboo shoots, I would say, technically a pickle, but like, are more likely to be served, like, on a bowl of ramen. I certainly have seen them as a side dish. I don't know when we'll get
Molly 13:40
into that. Well, I want to start breaking down the types of pickles, but I want to eat,
Speaker 1 13:44
yeah, I want to eat some pickles. Talk a little bit about these. Okay, let's start with this one here. So I made this one last night, and this is like, about as basic as Japanese pickles get. So one thing that I would say in general about Japanese pickles, like, there's no you can't generalize about Japanese pickles at all, because it's so, you know, so diverse, but it is basically like a salt, salt based lactic acid fermentation style of pickles. Yeah, this has no vinegar vibe in it, right? So this is, this just salt and water. It is literally just salt and cabbage. Oh, just salt and cabbage. Yeah? Okay, honestly, like, if I were making this again, I would even use a little more salt. So it's
Molly 14:23
so interesting how the flavor begins to change right away, while still tasting like cabbage. Is this meant to be consumed the day after it's made? I'm glad
Speaker 1 14:32
you asked that, because, like, okay, so this most basic style is called shiozuke, which just means, like, salt pickled. You can make it like, with a quick brine, and like, pickle for an hour, and that's an asazuke, which means, like, shallow, pickled and that's really common, like, you know, that gives you both, like the salty, refreshing taste, but also like the fresh, crunchy taste. People do that at home all the time. This one is not an asazuke, because it's been pickling, like, overnight. So, yeah, this is also super common.
Molly 14:56
I see on our agenda. You mentioned a pickle press. Do you have one? And. What does one need it for?
Speaker 1 15:01
So I don't have one, but like a shiozuke Pickle, like, typically, you will want to press the the vegetable in some way to, like, help the cells break open and like, accept the brine or the salt and and for like the texture to become more like, pickly texture, rather than fresh vegetable texture, like when you break someone down to build them back when you exactly, like, like, when you were a military Yeah, oh, and when you were a drill sergeant, yes, right, yeah. Why did you leave that job you were so good at? I was so good at that documentary about you full metal jacket, and, like, the way you put on that metal jacket was very intimidating. No, I know, I know it's still hanging in your closet. I've seen it when you were recording your podcasting class.
Molly 15:42
I'm having trouble. Yes, ANDing this one. I haven't seen this
Speaker 1 15:45
movie either. I know it has a scary drill sergeant. I think for
Molly 15:50
some reason I'm confusing it with Apocalypse Now, which is a whole other Yes, I have seen that. I've seen that, but only once.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:56
Yeah, no, I love the smell of skimoto in the morning. What was the question, pickle press? Break it? Oh, pickle press, yeah, so, like, so a pickle press makes it easy. You don't have to, like, find the right size weight. You just, like, you know, put your stuff in this, in this sort of, like, plastic or glass or glass jar, and then there's a contraption that goes on top that you, like, screw down. So there's like, a press that presses down as you as you screw it in place. Okay? They're fun to use. They're very effective. I don't actually have one, okay, I did this in a Ziploc bag, and just kind of like pressed on it occasionally.
Molly 16:28
I want to eat more pickles, yes, okay, what should I have next?
Speaker 1 16:31
Let's go this one here. This one, I think, is going to be on the funky side and probably an interesting texture.
Molly 16:39
I'm gonna take a walk on the funky side. Wow. That is a funky texture. So it is simultaneously soft and very crunchy. I would say it's a bit like raw gooey duck. For all the raw gooey duck eaters, it
Speaker 1 16:54
looks a bit like raw gooey duck. It does this myself.
Molly 16:58
Yeah, it looks like the siphon, like a cross section of the siphon of a gooey duck. And if you've ever had, like, gooey duck sushi, it's floppy but it's crunchy.
Speaker 1 17:06
It's floppy and crunchy. Yeah. Okay, so this is Ta Kwon, okay. This is pickled daikon that is partially dried. First is like hung up to dry and then pickled in rice bran for several months until it turns, naturally, turns, like a little yellowish, hold on.
Molly 17:21
Talk to me about this rice bran thing. What, what do you mean, pickled in rice bran?
Speaker 1 17:26
Okay, so rice bran is called Nuka in in Japanese, it is, like the brown stuff that they mill off when polishing rice. So, like it is, it is the byproduct of producing. I mean, not just, not just white rice, but, like, even, even brown rice, like some, some of the brand is taken off. So it's this, this brown powder that looks like, you know, like we did a, we did a bran episode, I think, where we had, like, a bag of wheat bran. This sounds familiar. It was, it was a formative experience for me. So this rice brand contains interesting bacterias and yeasts that just happen to like to live there. You then pack it around some vegetables, and those yeasts and bacteria go to work fermenting the flesh of the vegetable, and you get a totally different flavor profile than you would with just a salted pressed vegetable.
Molly 18:15
And is any salt added? Salt is also added? Yes, so it would just be, in this case, slices of Daikon rice bran.
Speaker 1 18:22
So this is a whole dried daikon. Let me show you what it looks like before I slice it.
Molly 18:27
Oh, it didn't come sliced like this. Whoa, okay. This kind of looks a little bit like a like a tamale, but really long, and it's got a little bit more nuance to the like, the texture the outside it's, it's definitely kind of phallic, yeah, little yellowish tan,
Speaker 1 18:48
kind of like a whale penis. Maybe, I don't know, maybe, have you ever gone swimming with the whales?
Molly 18:53
To me, it's a little horsey. Yeah, it is a
Speaker 1 18:57
little horsey. Horse we probably have, like, a lot more horse than whale experience, I do. So, yeah, so like, you can buy it sliced. And so I picked like, one that's, like, more like, somewhat more naturally produced. Like this is now, like, you know, produced industrially. And you mentioned one that was like, neon yellow that you remember from your kid, that's, that's what from your kid, from when you were a kid, that's how most of them are made these days. Like, you know, sort of a shortcut of the process, may or may not even include rice bran. This one does and is then, like, dyed bright yellow, still very tasty.
Molly 19:28
They, the ones that I've had, had more kick to them, more that of that, like, radishy, like, true, like, a Daikon kick to them. This one had kind of that radish flavor, but not the
Speaker 1 19:39
heat, yeah. Like, where does it go? I don't know. I don't know either. So this is an example of a new kazuke, a Bryce brand pickle. So first of all, like, I love, like, produce stands are really common in Japan, you know? So when I will walk by a produce stand in Tokyo, there will you will usually be a section among all the fresh vegetables of like, these are. Our House made Nuka pickles. You can like, see they're like, in like, an open crate or container that has some of the rice bran still there, and like, the vegetables lying lying in the bed of rice bran. Okay? And so if you are maintaining this at home, which some people do, you need to replenish it and stir it regularly, sort of like you're feeding a sourdough starter, because otherwise you end up with like, anoxic pockets. And, like, you know, anoxic pockets, anoxic pockets. Oh, man, not those. And you can, like, grow, grow stuff you don't want to grow in there. So to keep, like, the good, the good microorganisms, happy, you got it. You got to aerate it and add more. Add more.
Molly 20:37
NUCCA. How long would a Daikon, like this one we've got. How long would that have been pickling?
Speaker 1 20:44
So I don't know. Like this, this is a, this is a commercial one, and, like, they probably have, like, a shorter industrial process, but, like, if you were making it at home, like, four months maybe.
Molly 20:53
Oh, okay. But most rice bran pickles are a quicker, most
Speaker 1 20:57
rice brand, so takwan is, sort of, is sort of like a ancestor of modern rice brand pickles, I think, or is, you know, like sort of a relative of them. Ta Kwan is specifically the rice brand, rice brand Daikon, okay, so more likely you would be pickling something for like four days or even less. So it has, like, when, I like, need vegetables in Japan, which, like, you know, like, Japan loves vegetables. At the same time, it is really easy to do, like, as a traveler, get into a habit of, like, you know, I'm gonna have some ramen now. I'm gonna have like, you know, chicken and rice bowl. And then get to the near the end of the day, you're like, I haven't had a vegetable since Tuesday, and I have no one to blame but myself. I will go into into a convenience store, and they will usually sell, like a little plastic container of rice bran, pickles, carrot, cucumber and daikon. And I'll just like, snarf that down.
Molly 21:49
Quick question. So something like the cabbage you made, which you it looks like you, you know, you chopped it, or sort of sliced it into pieces about a half inch thick. Yeah, is something like this ever made in rice bran? And if so, would it be, like, whole leaves that you would pickle and then they get, like,
Speaker 1 22:06
rinsed off? That is a good question. Yeah, I have definitely seen napa cabbage done as a as a rice bran pickle. Yeah, it would need to be a bigger piece, okay?
Molly 22:16
And then you would rinse it before serving it. You're slicing it, okay, got it.
Molly 22:26
What are these other guys? Then we've got, okay, we got, like, cucumber here. All right,
Speaker 1 22:31
so let's, let's do, yeah, let's do the cucumber next. This is, this is a vinegar pickle, I think.
Molly 22:36
Oh, is this a piece of ginger that came with it. And these look like they have a dye. I'm gonna grab the package. Okay, so these are sliced. It looks like Japanese cucumbers, and they are sort of heading toward kelly green. They're an unnatural shade of green. And then there is julienned fresh ginger in here as well. Oh, the ginger is really nice. Can you hear that crunch?
Speaker 1 23:03
I can hear it Cumber, ginger, water, salt, vinegar, MSG and preservatives and two different food dyes.
Molly 23:11
The crunch of it is not all that dissimilar from the crunch of the daikon, yeah, in the sense that it's soft and crunchy, soft
Speaker 1 23:20
and crunchy at the same time. This one, this one, I would say, like, I've gotten this brand before. It's always like, oh yeah, this is the one that's a little bit sweet for me, but, but it
Molly 23:27
is good, yeah, but I can just imagine the taste of this with rice. Like, I feel like this is just made to eat with rice. But, so you said this is a vinegar one?
Speaker 1 23:36
Yep. Cucumber, ginger, water, salt, vinegar, MSG.
Molly 23:39
Okay. So what do we need to know about this guy? That's just another kind,
Speaker 1 23:43
yeah, so, so I would call that's a Suzuki, which is a vinegar pickle, not, not one of the most common types, but certainly still common. Okay, so let's do this purple guy next. Okay, this is shibazuke. This you see all the time, like, if you get, if you're getting, like, a taishoku lunch like you were never going to be shocked to see shibazuke as one of the pickles.
Molly 24:05
Okay, that has a lot of different flavors going on in it, whereas the daikon was quite straightforward, the cabbage, extremely straightforward. The cucumber a little sweet, as you said, but this feels like it has, it's squeaky, it's squeaky, but it also has kind of this feeling I almost get, like when I eat warm spices. It's got a real depth to it. Yeah, where is that coming from?
Speaker 1 24:31
This is a very Kyoto style pickle. It is usually a mix of cucumber and eggplant, which I believe this one is pickled with red shiso leaves, or I think it's usually red shiso leaves, but it can also be like dried powdered shiso leaves, or like, I think sometimes the seeds are involved. Also it can also sometimes, like, if you're making it at home, especially like use ume plum vinegar, which is also like purple, dark purple, like for color and faster pickling. This is just one. One that has become popular all over Japan. It's a favorite of adult child of the show, December, according to a friend of the show, Nami, from just one cookbook I was reading her article about this pickle in particular, shibazuke became much more popular throughout Japan after a hit 1985 TV commercial, which she linked to. And she's like, you know, if you grew up in Japan at this time, you remember this commercial, and it's basically, it's a 15 second commercial. It's basically just a woman saying shibazuke tabetai, like, I want to eat shibazuke. And it worked.
Molly 25:36
What does shibazuke mean?
Unknown Speaker 25:38
Ooh, that's a good question.
Molly 25:42
Well, I mean, I guess you've got shiozuke, which is
Speaker 1 25:45
like a salt pickle, yeah. But what is Shiba? Oh, oh, you know what it is. It is a way of reading the character that also is read as Murasaki, which means purple so it means purple pickle. This is growing on me. Yeah. I didn't like it, like, probably the first five times I tried it, the
Molly 26:04
first time, I had to kind of really close my eyes and just keep crunching. I'm on my fourth one now, and I'm really liking it. So this is originally from Kyoto, as you said. So do you remember when you and I went into an eel restaurant and we basically had, yeah, I think fondly of that often, eel with rice, uh huh, in a box, in a box. Would this? Like, come on the side. How would I eat this? Like, does this? Am I meant to eat this with rice? Am I meant to eat it as, like, a palate cleanser?
Speaker 1 26:33
It's mostly going to be served as a palate cleanser. Yeah, okay. It's like to, you know, when you know your your your chopsticks are taking a break from the main course, like, you reach for a little bit of pickle.
Molly 26:44
And out of curiosity, what are you gonna do with the leftovers of all
Speaker 1 26:48
of these? Oh, that's a good question. So I'm gonna serve them, like, as a side with various things, including, like, I'm making a frozen pizza heating up, like a good luck bread frozen pizza tonight. And like, I'll be great with some pickles on the side. Yeah. Okay, I like that. And I don't know, like, I haven't made a sushi roll in a long time, but when you mentioned a futamachi, that sounds really good.
Molly 27:10
I wonder if the futamachi, if what I thought was was umaboshi was actually shibazuke. That's possible. It's like a rusty purple
Speaker 1 27:18
color, yeah. Like, if you, if you tasted them side by side, like at this point, they taste very different. But if I didn't really know yeah at the time, yeah, it certainly could have been so some other I have another, another type here that I got just because it sounded good and I tasted it. It is really good. This is a pickled burdock root with black sesame.
Molly 27:37
It truly looks like ants on a log. The burdock root is about the width of a pencil. It's really good, and it's brown. Oh, this is tough for me. Matthew wise, it's got texture. It's got so much flavor, like, way more, I guess, burdock flavor than I expected. It also has a fibrous texture. Oh, yes, it really feels like you've taken kind of soft wood. Oh, it's absolutely you're eating a stick, okay, well, yes, it breaks apart in my mouth. Like, like, strands of some sort of stringy wood. Yep, string of wood. And it has a really strong flavor that is, I think, generally pleasant. I think, generally pleasant. I think it just overall, it was a lot.
Speaker 1 28:24
Yeah, I think, like, tonight you're gonna, you're gonna wake up at some point and be like, suddenly, I want more burdock root.
Molly 28:31
I guess I've had pickled burdock root. Maybe that's where I've had burdock root before. Where have you ever
Speaker 1 28:37
had Kim Peter go bull, I don't think so. Kimpiro Go boy. It's like, I had, I had a really tasty, like, foil packet of it at Family Mart recently. It's like, sauteed, like, like, more, more thinly, Julie and Burton root with, usually, with carrot, a little bit of dried chili and, like, Dashi and soy sauce and sugar or mirin, one of my favorite dishes.
Molly 29:03
Wow, I can't believe how different these are. Yeah, really, really cool to eat them all together.
Speaker 1 29:08
Okay, so here's like, six kinds of pickles that we're not trying today, and, like, that's really still just getting started. So like fukujin zuke, which means, like, seven, seven lucky gods, or Shichi fukujin Zukes, seven, seven lucky God's pickle. We made this at the pickle class with Elizabeth Ondo. It's like small dice of seven different vegetables, soy sauce, pickled and usually dyed red, although, if you're making it home, you don't have to do that. And this is considered like the side dish or the pickle to have with Japanese curry. So like, if you go to that CoCo Ichiban curry house. Like, there will be a metal container of this on the table, and you can use as much as you want. Okay, so that's a type of shoyuzuke soy sauce, pickle Suzuki, we talked about Shio Koji, zuke, like Shio Koji, which is like, like a fermented rice paste product, has become. Really, really popular, both both in Japan and in North America recently, partly for like, health claims, but also because it's tasty. Is koji? Is that rice? It is rice that's been inoculated with a particular bacteria, okay? Misozuki, miso pickles, ka suzuke, which is sake Lee's like the leftovers for making sake, like, that's a real Kyoto style pickle, okay, and that's it. I'm gonna stop there.
Molly 30:26
Wow. God, thanks, Matthew. That was, there was a lot of learning in this episode.
Speaker 1 30:31
Yeah, I'm sure I got some things wrong. Let me know. Contact at spilled milk podcast.com, for a while we were like, We shouldn't do Japanese pickles till we have a guest, but, like, we'll keep it high level and and just do some nibblings. Yeah, no, I nibbled one nibbling you're nobbled. Matthew. Do we have any spilled mail? We sure do. Would you like to read it? Since I just I
Molly 30:50
see it right here, I would love to read it.
Molly 30:59
This one comes from listener, Brianna, Hi Molly and Matthew, I've been catching up on spilled milk this week from Oslo Norway, where I'm visiting from Minnesota. I just had an absolutely phenomenal bowl of ramen, like, easily in the top five servings of ramen I've ever had. And it made me curious, what are some foods you've had that were unexpectedly delicious for being, quote, out of place or not a big part of the local cuisine. Another example for me would be an incredible Italian restaurant, mamma Mia's tucked away in Ishpeming. I don't know if I'm saying that right, Michigan. Love the show Brianna.
Speaker 1 31:35
I don't have a great answer to this, because, like, I feel like the things I kept thinking of were things that aren't really surprising, because, like, you know, like, good Thai food can show up anywhere. So like, when Laurie and I were in Glasgow recently, we had incredible Thai food. But like when
Molly 31:52
I saw that you had written this on the agenda, though, I thought, I think it's always surprising to find a great version, okay, of a faraway cuisine, yeah.
Speaker 1 32:02
Okay, so we went to this place in the West End called, called kapow. We didn't know, going in, like, it's a very popular, like, hip spot. We're like, is this gonna be good, or is this gonna just gonna be, like, where cool people like to hang out, and the food is fine. It was real good. Like, the food was incredible. So I would definitely recommend that place. My real answer of like, like, you know, coming across, kind of coming across a restaurant that was like, you know, this is so much, such a better overall experience than we imagined we could have had. Here is this place that on a, I think it was a family trip to Disneyland, and that's why we were in Orange County. But like when I was a kid, we were looking for a place to eat on a family trip to Disneyland, most likely, we were in Fullerton, California, and came across this kind of wacky Italian American restaurant called Angelo and Vinci's, which was named after Michelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci. The building, it's like a it was like a kitschy made up to be like, kind of like a castle and full of all kinds of wacky decor, and overseen by, like, a minor actor named Steven Peck, who had, like, a bit part in The Godfather and many other things, and never starred in anything, but, like, as soon and he was, like, there the first time, went to the restaurant. Like, you know, as soon as he's talking about, like, oh, like, oh, like, this is a Hollywood guy, you can just kind of tell, like he's wearing a suit. Was a very handsome guy, and the food is just like, you know, Italian, American menu. And like, everything we had was just delicious. And, like, it was just such a fun place. And they closed, I think, within the last five years, Steven the owner, died in like, 2005 and like, his family, like, continued to run it for a while. And like, you know, I found Reddit threads people saying, oh yeah. Like, like, we had our wedding there. We had our wedding reception. There. It was just like, this unusual place with, like, surprisingly good food. They also did, like, really cheap take, really cheap takeout window, like serving, like the local college, just this place that was like, like, an unlikely pillar of the community that we were lucky enough to get to go to a couple of times I went back again, like when I was when I was in college, going to college in Southern California, a weird and wonderful place, delightful.
Molly 34:19
I'm gonna sit this one out. I couldn't think of a good answer to it. Yeah, that's fair. But anyway, listen to Brianna. What? What a great question. It was a great question. Okay, Matthew, do you have a now? But wow, I do.
Speaker 1 34:39
So I've been enjoying a show called K foodie meets Jay foodie. Did I already talk about this? This doesn't sound familiar, right? I don't think you've talked about it all right? So this is a show that is on Netflix, and they are making a ridiculous number of episodes of it. I feel like every time I pull up Netflix, it's like new season of K foodie meets Jay foodie. I think it, I think it debuted early. Earlier this year, and they're on season four.
Molly 35:02
I also want to say our Netflix algorithms are so different. Oh my God, my Netflix algorithm is all like horror movies and basketball.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:12
Okay, yeah, okay, go on. Are there any, are there any basketball horror movies? I'm sure there are. Yeah, this show, it's a, it's a, like a real, not a not a narrative show, but like a documentary is a strong word, but it's it's about. It's a reality show where two guys, matshigetaka, who's the star of solitary gourmet, one of my favorite shows, and his young friend Sung Si Kyung, who's a Korean singer and food YouTuber who started out as a matshigetaka fan and that and reached out and is like, can we, like, you know, eat together? And like, they became friends, and now they do a show together. When I say, when I say, his young friend, I think Sung Si Kyung is like, 45 years old, but looks a lot younger than that. Matsushige san is like a, is like a, you know, white haired eminence, but also kind of a real goofball. They just go around eating places in Japan and Korea, and their friendship is very sweet. And, like, they talk about interesting stuff. And I didn't even realize that Sung Si Kyung was a singer, because he, like, like, I probably most people. That's how most people hear about the show, because he's a very popular singer. I had never heard of him. So, like, I watched a few episodes of this show, and then he mentioned something about singing. And I looked up one of his videos, like, Oh, this guy has an amazing voice too. I love your delight. So it's, yeah, it's, it's a very fun show. They go, they go a lot of cool places. My favorites are where it's just like, one of them takes the other. Like, you know, here's a place I've been eating since I was a kid, and I still love it. Let's, let's go here together. And I'll tell you what to order like, because some of the best food experiences in my life are when someone has taken me to a place like that. So that's k foodie meets J foodie on Netflix.
Molly 36:48
Delightful. Our producer is Abby circatella.
Speaker 1 36:51
Oh, you know what? Molly has a newsletter. I want to start with that before I plug my thing. It's called I've got a feeling. AND you can subscribe at Molly weisenberg.substack.com, and I recommend that you do. I have a couple of musical releases. My band, Twilight diners, put out two covers that are available everywhere. We did a cover of a obscure 90s indie song that we both really like, but then also a cover of Chris Isaac's Wicked Game. And then my other band, early to the airport. Also put out a couple of new songs. We put out a single with, like, we're calling it a double A side single. It's got two, two songs about space robots that we're really, really proud of. So that's Twilight diners and early to the airport, early to the airport. Single is called Operation Meteor. You can get those wherever you get music.
Molly 37:39
And I was gonna say that I was recently listening to Operation Meteor with my family in the car, and ash. Was like, God, Matthew has a really good voice. Thank you. That's so sweet. Yeah. Okay, well, so rate and review us wherever you get podcasts,
Speaker 1 37:53
and you can catch up with other listeners and talk pickles at reddit.com/r/everything, spilled milk. And until next time, thank you for listening to spilled milk. I'm gramble
Molly 38:03
and I'm trinkle.
Molly 38:15
You're a musical hater too. Yeah, big time. I can't stand it.
Speaker 1 38:19
Like, why do they why do they sing songs? Why do they got to do that? I wonder how Abby feels about this. I guess. I guess we're gonna
Molly 38:25
find out. I guess so.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai