428: Mackerel

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:03

I'm Molly and I'm Matthew and this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any and today's topic is Keynesian stimulus. Today's topic is macro, macro economics, macro

Unknown Speaker 0:18

economics. What would that be? It sounds like a lot of people it's like macro economic. Right.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:25

So it'd be it'd be the the economics of like international fishery management.

Unknown Speaker 0:29

Oh, cool.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:30

Okay, funny answer, huh? Wow.

Unknown Speaker 0:33

You should be.

Unknown Speaker 0:36

Okay, so we're talking about mackerel. today? I'm kind of surprised. Well, as with many episodes, I'm feeling surprised that it's taken us this long to get to this. Well,

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:44

to be fair, we did an episode called unpopular fish. It was our first episode with a guest Becky selling it was like nine years ago. I think it was episode six. Wow, seriously. Okay. And we talked some about macro on that episode. Probably. I certainly didn't go back and listen to it because Me neither. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:04

Anyway, I you know, macros shows up, particularly in a lot of Japanese preparation. that's mostly

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:09

what I'm going to be talking about. That's mostly what I know about and

Unknown Speaker 1:12

given your relationship with Japan. Your relationship? Have you guys had a DTR yet?

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:20

Oh, we really shed. Yeah. Anyway. I mean, you and the people of Japan. It could be a referendum. There could be a referendum. I think if there was a referendum, I would get voted out somehow.

Unknown Speaker 1:31

Probably. Anyway. Yeah, this

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:33

guy just isn't doing it for us anymore.

Unknown Speaker 1:36

Given your relationship to Japan. I'm very surprised. It's taken us this long to talk about macro.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:41

Yeah. Do you have any macro Memory Lane?

Unknown Speaker 1:43

I have zero macro memory. Oh, wait a minute. The one memory lane I have. And I was initially thinking this doesn't qualify as memory lane because it's too recent. But then I realized Matthew, that what I'm remembering took place in 2005. Oh, that counts. That was sure. 15 years ago that. So ancient time I dated this guy when I was in grad school. I dated him for like three weeks. He he broke up with me, I think. Yeah, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:13

think if you can't remember for sure. That's probably that's good way to leave things right

Unknown Speaker 2:17

at the time. I was heartbroken. He was really he was like, really attractive. And I had been warned.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:23

Oh, no,

Unknown Speaker 2:24

I had been warned that he was slightly bad news and that he really only This is terrible that he was one of those white guys who only dates Asian women. Okay, and clearly I'm not Asian.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:37

I think we may have talked about this before. I

Unknown Speaker 2:39

think we may have anyway. But what I remember is that at some point after we had broken up, it feels weird even say break up when you've been like dating for three weeks. Yeah, I just Anyway, after we had stopped dating, at some point after that, when I was still feeling sort of strangely heartbroken by this. We went out for sushi and he knew way more about sushi than I did. That

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:01

sounds like a fun date.

Unknown Speaker 3:03

He had been married to a Japanese woman. And he learned a tremendous amount about sushi being in Japan with her family.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:10

So So this date was like, let me teach you. Let me tell you how to eat sushi using knowledge. I'm gonna talk about a lot. Yeah, basically, it sounds like that's exactly I wish I could have been like at the table.

Unknown Speaker 3:26

Anyway, that was the first time I ever had macro in a sushi restaurant. And it may be the first time that I ever actually had macro

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:34

was with that dude. Oh, and yet you still like it. And I still take it. I'm glad that that guy couldn't ruin macro for you because it's a great fit.

Unknown Speaker 3:42

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I mean, the good news is I think I think he was just going through a hard time.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:48

I think that seems very generous of you.

Unknown Speaker 3:51

I think he vaguely got his shit together. Okay, good. I mean, it's arguable whether I got

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:57

my shit together. Have you been? I think you have and stalking him on Facebook. Is that? Okay? friends on Facebook? Yes. He sometimes sends you sushi tips, right? Yeah. He loves to tell me stories about his old mother in law. I feel like I tried to like ask myself like, Am I really any better than this guy? Cuz like, I definitely mansplain things and also, I feel like I've like a white guy who only only has relationships with Asian countries. And maybe that's just as bad. I mean, I think we could we could discuss this. Yeah, it would be very funny. Again, haha. Oh, macroeconomics. Okay, anyway. So I think the first time I had macro was maybe about the same time maybe a little earlier than that you date that guy to mean like, so hard to remember like things things got pretty crazy. In the in the arts? Yeah. You and Laurie were probably experiencing like the Seven Year Itch around that point. Yeah, right. Like or like the 10 year Yeah. Wait, had you been married? 10 years. No, you didn't get married in 1995 I mean, we got married in 96. And we got together in 95 I thought you were like, 20 when you got married? You were 21 No, I was I was 20. I was going to turn 21 Later that year, and in fact, I did. I still can't believe you guys got married when you were 20 I know, if you're listening, don't do that.

Unknown Speaker 5:27

But you guys have like, made it work and you still like each other. And

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:31

if you're listening to do that, I don't know what the what the lesson here is, is the lesson is Do as I do not as ice. Laurie okay with the relationships you keep having with various countries in Asia. Well, that's that's a good question. I mean, I think yes, but I think she would really enjoy going to Europe at some point. And I'm always like, cool. Let's go back to Japan.

Unknown Speaker 5:57

You know, I recently watched marriage story The Noah Baumbach movie that was nominated for a bunch of Oscar heard of

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:03

it but have not seen

Unknown Speaker 6:04

in it. The wife You know, as part of their divorce is is citing this this complaint that she always wanted to live in LA they lived in New York and her husband just kept putting it off and putting it off now they're going through a divorce in the movie so Matthew, maybe you should like take a step here. Wow. Scarlett Johansen and like if your wife says she wants to go to Europe like take her to Europe

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:30

Okay, I'm gonna wind up in the back message received I'm taking Scarlett Johansson to euro are gonna wind up like Adam Driver. But I mean, but she hangs out in Tokyo also in that in that way Marie, I'm gonna end up like Adam Driver if I don't change my ways problem, right. Yeah, I think I could handle that. Anyway. All right. All right. So I think the first time I had macro was at a restaurant now sadly closed for many years called taco hace in the international district and Seattle, probably someone on egullet the food messageboard that we both used to frequent. I think it's technically where we met. I think it's where we met. suggested, said the taco, Hachi was a great restaurant and you should go for lunch and get the Saba shijo Yaki, which is salt broiled macro lunch set. And so I went and I did that. And it was so

Unknown Speaker 7:24

good. Is this the place that it's in the ID and it was like, one block off of Jackson?

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:31

No, it's right on Jackson. Okay. It is now a restaurant called carnamah. Okay. And which, which is also good, but it's kind of a different kind of place. And it had it had like a octopus like I light up octopus sign outside. And now like the octopus sign and one of the booths from the restaurant or like a permanent exhibit at the Cobo like housewares store. Walk Yeah. Oh, but you cannot sit in the booth and get food. Because it's no longer a restaurant. Anyway, so so salt grilled macro, we're going to talk about more about it. But he's so simple. It's like macro that's been salted and broiled. And that's it, like macro eats. Like, remember, I like eating it probably for the first time. Like every time I eat it. The the adjective that jumps to mind is juicy. Yeah, because it is such an oily fish, but oily is not doesn't have a very positive connotation to it.

Unknown Speaker 8:25

No. And, you know, it's interesting, because I think a lot of people I think that people are often a little bit put off by macro because it is because like many oily fishes, it is thought to be very, like, pungent. Yeah, smelly. It's not that it's not those things. Yeah, but but I feel like, in truth, at least the one that we ate today was no more pungent than a piece of salmon, right? Which is also an oil. It's funny.

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:53

oily fish. Like you wouldn't describe a marbled steak as oily even though right? It is in the same sense that a oily fish is oily. I guess the fat in a fish has a lower melting point. But still, I mean,

Unknown Speaker 9:06

also there are plenty of pungent fishes that we prize like the anchovy has had a real comeback. Yeah, in American cooking lately.

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:14

I'm gonna I'm going to try and work this into conversation that I could go for like a nice oily steak.

Unknown Speaker 9:22

It just doesn't sound

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:24

right. So why so why like denigrate a fish that way? Why did you decide to do that? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 9:31

Okay, Matthew, would you just would you tell me about what macro is okay? Because for one thing, I don't know.

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:39

For one thing, I don't know either. But, so a macro is is a name, like, you know, we always run into this both with plants and animals that there's like a common name that actually gets stuck to a whole bunch of different unrelated things. But macro basically is a it's a very common fish. And the one we're going to focus on is the Atlantic. macro, you know, like things that are like like Spanish macro horse macro those are those are kind of more distantly related also, I mean also certainly good. Do they taste remotely like Atlantic macro? remotely? Yes. They're also they're also like an oily fish. Okay. And then there's King macro. Which, can we just dive into this? Because I'm getting overwhelmed. Yes, we can dive into it like a fish diving into the ocean from not.

Unknown Speaker 10:28

So okay, hold on. So macro is like a really beautiful fish.

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:34

Yeah, it's silver. It's striped in like, very, it looks very streamline. Yeah, it's like, it's kind of like, if you had a kid to draw a fish, it would look kind of like a macro.

Unknown Speaker 10:45

Exactly. It's sort of like, from the side. It's like an elongated ohlman shape.

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:51

Yes. Yeah, that's totally true.

Unknown Speaker 10:53

Whereas some fish, like, you know, salmon or whatever some salmon have, like, they just don't have that like, perfect. ohlman shape,

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:00

right? And it's a plump fish. It's, it's got a roundness to it.

Unknown Speaker 11:05

It's really kind of cute.

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:06

Yes. And yeah, so so we said, like, you know, it's people people kind of balk at it, because it seems oily and smelly, but like, and that's not not true. But like, so like either stinky cheeses, like those are great, too.

Unknown Speaker 11:20

Also, I think so much of this is how it has been kept from the moment that it was pulled out of the ocean until it arrives on your plate, because for instance, you know, here in Seattle, like we eat a lot of salmon, and I try to eat them, especially when they are like coming right fresh. However, I bought some previously frozen wild sockeye at the grocery store recently. And I usually don't have a problem with previously frozen fish. However, I was very aware of how much fishier it

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:50

Yeah, it does.

Unknown Speaker 11:52

And so yeah, I think that we have to keep in mind that like what we attribute to these fish as like inherent properties to them, or sometimes what's happened to them when they aren't the freshest or when they've been around for a while sitting in a freezer or right.

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:06

And also and this is going to be like super fucking funny. Like there's also like, like class and race layers involved because you know, macro is a cheap fish. Yeah, Sam, it is an expensive fish. And

Unknown Speaker 12:17

so we're all like, ooh, I love oily salmon. Fact like the oiliest Copper River salmon is so expensive.

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:26

I know. It's like $37 or something that stuff. I mean, it's almost like frying bacon. Yeah, it's so bad. It's so good. Anyway, so one one other thing I want to get out of the way is that you have probably heard warnings about mercury and macro. And those apply to King macro which is like a big ass top of the food chain macro that I don't remember ever having seen for sale on at least you know, fishes is like much more regional still than other foods and they're like fish that are common on the East Coast that we don't get much on the west coast. So maybe on the east coast of the US you're getting you're getting king mackerel, maybe other parts of the world. I have never seen king mackerel in Seattle. Atlantic mackerel is low in mercury. Don't worry about it. Cool. Okay, tell me more. I found this on Wikipedia like I did. I did a bit of a macro deep dive no pun intended. When feeding on larger prey schools tend to break down into shoals and individuals find food on their own when consuming plankton. However, Atlantic macro form tight aggregations, open their mouths as wide as possible and extend their own curriculums swimming in a tightly packed school that acts like a series of miniature toe nets. That's so cool. Let me be great. If we could do that. What kind of food would you want to do? Well, it would need to be something flying through the air. Well, oh, so So pretty much bugs, right? Unless we live in like Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, right? So maybe we could do this underwater. Like we could have nice. Swimming Pool. Okay, bobbing for apples, right? You're all invited to my party. We're going to fill my swimming pool with meatballs and a full

Unknown Speaker 14:07

sized swimming pool. He

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:09

means his bathtub, right? Because I do not have a swimming pool or a yard. But we're gonna fill this main pool with meatballs. You're all gonna come over we're gonna join hands and form what was it? I think it's more like we're gonna go Cheek to Cheek we're gonna go Cheek to Cheek we're gonna open our mouths as wide as possible. So so basically forming like one communal mouth. Have like all spilled milk listeners together. Sounds very sexy. Forming one communal mouth. Yeah, it's just it was weird fantasy. Yeah, that communal mouth. It's I want

Unknown Speaker 14:45

that communal mouth on on my body. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:48

yeah. Interesting. All right, episodes canceled.

Unknown Speaker 14:52

Okay. All right.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:54

Tell me more. So, still, according to Wikipedia, historically in England, this and like, I feel like there's gonna be keeps coming up. There's like, like many many, like traditional ways to cook macro in in various European cuisines, including for us, Norway, but also a lot in England that I don't know a whole lot about. And I'm hoping listeners will will be able to chime in. Okay, but historically in England, this fish was not preserved, but it was consumed only in its fresh form. However, spoilage was common, leading the authors of the Cambridge economic history of Europe. Hey, we're back to macro economics. to remark there are more references to stinking macro and English literature than to any other fish. Wow. We've all been wondering like which fish which fish had been referenced most in English literature? Well, like in its stinking state?

Unknown Speaker 15:41

Oh, okay.

Unknown Speaker 15:49

So how do you buy it? I think, you know, the thing that I notice is that a typical like mainstream American grocery store doesn't often match. And is that because of these like race and class issues, do

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:04

you think No, I think it's it's, it's more like regional fishery issues, because it's an Atlantic fish. And we do you know, there's, you know, salmon is super, super popular. And so there is a whole like distribution system set up to get Atlantic salmon while mooch is farmed, anyway, to the west coast. But like for a fish, where there isn't as much demand like macro, no one's gonna go to a lot of trouble to get a fresh macro from the Atlantic to Seattle. Yeah, well, when we've got lots of other fish here,

Unknown Speaker 16:33

have you noticed going? Well, I mean, how often do you go into like a mainstream grocery store on the East Coast?

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:41

all the time? How often do I go there? You're just gonna ask me, How often do I go to the supermarket? Every day? I

Unknown Speaker 16:46

was gonna ask like, I would be curious to hear from any listeners who live on the east coast of the USA. Is mackerel a common thing.

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:55

Like, like, you know, another another, like oily, flavorful fish that I like is blue fish, which I think is very common on the east coast and is not really available at all on the west coast.

Unknown Speaker 17:05

My parents, my mom, who's from Baltimore, and my dad, who spent a lot of time in Baltimore both used to talk about bluefish a lot.

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:12

Yeah. who's constantly talking about blue fish? Why wouldn't you? Right? It's like, we're always talking about the communal mouth. Okay, so unless, unless you're in in somewhere with access to a macro fishery, the macro that you buy will probably be frozen, and that's okay. Okay. It's like so like with shrimp. It's better to buy it frozen, then thawed because you don't know when it was thawed. Okay, and macro goes bad. real fast. As you may know, from English literature. Yes. If you remember one thing from your English literature class, it's probably the thing about the spoiled macro.

Unknown Speaker 17:46

Yeah. Okay.

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:48

So when you buy like a couple lines of Chaucer

Unknown Speaker 17:51

when you buy frozen macro, is it? It's there an individual filets?

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:57

You can buy a whole frozen macro or filets? I usually buy the filets because it's easier and how do you thaw them? in the fridge overnight? Okay, cool. Yeah, and I so I buy them at a watcher Maya they're, they're from Norway. They come in like a, you know, air tight package, you know, like a plastic flat. What am I trying to say here? Oh, it's like a vacuum seal like a vacuum sealed pack? Yeah. Okay. They look really pretty even even in the package, even filleted form, and like a pair of filets is usually like $6. That's fantastic. Yeah. And we just, we just shared one filet for lunch.

Unknown Speaker 18:32

That's a sizable amount. Right. So you know, if you have a family of I don't know, not, not huge eaters, but average eaters. Yeah. You could get one pack for a family. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:42

I usually buy one pack for the three of us. And that's and that's about right. Okay. Yeah, I mean, if I'm, if I'm hungry, I'll put away a whole fillet myself.

Unknown Speaker 18:50

Okay. And you eat the skin, right?

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:52

Yeah, this macro doesn't really have scales as far as I can tell. So you don't have to scale it and the skin is totally edible. And if you crisp it up, totally delicious. It's not. It doesn't get like salmon skin because it's very thin. But it's good. Cool. So are there other ways to buy macro? Yeah, I mean, there's canned and smoked macro, which I have had an enjoyed but like don't usually buy and don't really know much about because like, I've just not a person who buys much canned or smoked fish. Okay, I'm not my dad yet. I guess. Okay, but I'm gonna grow into that. I think we can all be confident that you'll get there. Yeah. So tell me about how you cook it so you've thought it overnight in the fridge and then what do you do? And then I cut open the the package and I and I tried to touch the fold the raw filets as little as possible because they're really slippery because they're slippery, like more so than then salmon. Yeah, for sure. So no matter how you cook it, mackerel loves salt and acid. So the the way I make it most often is I will you have pat the filets dry, like salt them a little ahead. Like I've gotten gotten kind of into salting things I had, like, I think I think salting a steak ahead is the is a very good idea. Yeah, like especially if it's a real oily steak. I'm just carry on. And so get plenty of salt on him. And then and then just boil them until like you know, they hit like until they're cooked through it which is really easy to determine

Unknown Speaker 20:22

and I'm guessing you don't need to, you know, smear any oil or anything on top of it before you pop it under the broiler. Okay, do you pop it under there? I'm just gonna keep saying pop it

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:33

just keeps Yeah, my puppet. Do you put it under the broiler, skin side up or skin side down. So I will start it skin side down and then make sure and finish it skin side up so the skin gets crispy. It is possible to burn macro skin but it's kind of good even when it's burned. And how do you know when it's done? You know when it's dead? You can either use a thermometer I'd probably like like 151 60 is fine. It's it's fatty enough that it's that it's one of the hardest fish to overcook but also you can you can like Nick Nick and peek and you know kind of just see if it looks done.

Unknown Speaker 21:08

And do you so when you say love salt i mean do you salt it like you would salt a piece of boiled potato like like a lot of salt?

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:17

Yeah, I think I think like no flake potato. No, but like more salt than you would use on I think more salt than I would use on a piece of salmon.

Unknown Speaker 21:27

Okay. Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:29

I think I think it's just really good that way like it balances out with the with the flavor you know, it's an intensely flavored fish and and like it wants that salt and then and then squeeze some lemon on it when it comes out. Okay, and I'm guessing that's probably what you do most of the time because what I do most of the time because it's so easy and like you know it brings its flavor with it it doesn't need much having said that there are lots of other ways to prepare macro both Japanese wait ways and not okay, so when I was looking around for recipes I found a link to it and Alexandra Cornish Shelley recipe for roasted whole macro, which I think had fennel Nabi, which sounded really good. That sounds great. Um, you can you can certainly pan fry or grill, whole fish or you can grill a whole fish. You can pan fry filets or grill flies. There's this thing, ESCA bass. Ha,

Unknown Speaker 22:19

yeah. I mean, I've had it. It's I feel like recently there were a lot of a lot of restaurant menus that had like mussels Escobar che, that seems odd. It's one of those things where I like it in theory, but I would never choose to order it or make it

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:37

right. It's like It's like when you cook a protein usually and then and then sort of lightly pixelate after cooking. It can be served hot or cold or room temperature. And it's it's a Spanish thing originally, but it's very popular in Japan also

Unknown Speaker 22:52

interesting. Yeah. Hmm. In Italy, I think of them doing I can't remember what they call what you call that preparation in Italy. But I think of them doing it with vegetables. Like

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:05

Sure, like a pan frying slices of zucchini and then letting the marinate in vinegar. Oh, that sounds really good. Yeah. Anyway, Italian foods kind of good. No. I mean, I wonder like if there are a lot of people who feel that a friend of this friend of the show, Becky selling good is going to Italy soon. I'm just gonna announce that to everybody. Great. And she asked me She asked me, have you been? And I said, No, actually, I haven't. And I said I'm just not really into Italian food and I waited to see if she would buy it for a second she did not.

Unknown Speaker 23:39

Where's she going?

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:40

Cink with Tara? A couple other Perugia. Okay, and one other place that I don't remember.

Unknown Speaker 23:46

All right, cool. All right. Have fun, Becky. Yeah. Okay, so now tell me about you know, specifically ways to cook Mackrell in Japanese cuisine other than I mean, salt broiled?

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:57

Yes. So that's a tweet just talked to me that that is one of the most popular fish dessert dishes in Japan. If you go into any supermarket in Japan, you will find pieces of macro fillet that I mean you'll find them like unsalted but also like salted and ready to broil. Okay. Um, and the dish we made today, which I had never made before, but I'd eaten before it's called Saba musoni or just stop me so and it is macro filets that are braised in like basically, rich miso broth. So water, miso, sugar, sakei and ginger. And you really you just put the macro filets into that broth and you make a pretty small amount of it. You put it put a lid on it, you let it braise for like 10 minutes and then you eat it with rice. Delicious. So good

Unknown Speaker 24:46

question about about cooking with soccer. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 24:49

so is soccer like a wine in the sense that if you buy some of it for cooking to have around for cooking because it's such a typical like base ingredient in so many jobs. Nice dishes. Does it go bad quickly like,

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:03

or is it like mirin where you keep it in the fridge and it's in between so it doesn't go bad as quickly as like a white wine, but it goes bad more quickly than a mirin or a liquor. Okay, so I usually buy cooking sock a, because that's what most home cooks in Japan do. And it's fine. And how long do you keep it? Oh, it's salted so it lasts forever. Oh, okay. Oh, that's really good to know. Yeah. Okay, cool. I mean, yeah, you can't drink it, but right. You wouldn't want to even if it wasn't salted, but for cooking, it's fine. Like I kind of I kind of don't buy the whole like use use of wine for cooking. That's good enough to drink thing. Yeah, I feel like I feel like I have like broken that rule so many times and it always comes out fine.

Unknown Speaker 25:48

I am inclined to agree. I will say that last night I used a I was making cream braised leeks. Where you you know you you Brown, some leeks and a pan with some fresh time and then you add in some white wine and then chicken stock and braise it and at the very end you add some cream. It is so delicious.

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:08

Did we have that on the braising episode?

Unknown Speaker 26:11

We probably had something similar okay, but um, I used a white wine that I had already opened and was drinking and I don't know if it was like the wine flavor in it. It is quite prominent. Yeah. And that was really I felt really grateful that I had used a wine that I enjoy drinking. But I think that that is that's not generally the case. There are usually many more flavors going on.

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:36

Yeah, I mean, this has nothing to do with macro but like usually if I'm making like a red wine beef stew or something it's gonna cook so yeah, I will I will use a like not not like a Franzia but like the next level up of Boxed Wine yes and it works great. Totally. What what a hot take that was Yeah, that was a wow that's one of our firing rates so proud of us for for keeping keeping the flame of the riots alive. Okay, wait, tell me about this. These other ones that you've listed these other types of macro Okay, so we're gonna post a recipe link to the recipe for the Saba Missoni from from our favorite Japanese cooking blog. Just one cookbook. It's so easy to make It's so good. She may Saba is one of my absolute favorite things. It is a lightly cured raw macro cured with rice vinegar and salt. And that's that's really all there is to it. You know you you cure it you slice it well, and then you eat it as sashimi or it can be used for as a sushi topping. Ring. Okay, cool. I don't think I'd ever heard of Okay, next time Next time we're in Japan. What Let's order that kind of restaurant. Would you find it in like an izakaya? Absolutely. Oh, yes. Okay. Oh, cool. And finally macro can be used to make he mono which is semi dried fish, where which is fish that's kind of salted and left out to dry. Usually like outdoors over for like a day. So it's not like a fully like like jerky. It's just like much more dry than a fresh fish. Okay. And is is a like very typical kind of old school breakfast food in Japan. And it's very good. Like, like, you'll often be lightly grilled

Unknown Speaker 28:15

when you and I went to Tokyo just the two of us. And we stayed the first night in a Rio con and yeah, breakfast there the next morning. Was that he mono? I thought

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:26

that was probably not I think that was like was it like salt grilled salmon. Maybe? I think it was macro. Was it macro? Maybe it was more like a sardine or something. Yeah, not. It was not salmon. Okay. Yeah, the maybe Maybe it was because that would be that would be very typical. Like in breakfast. It had a little bit of a dry look to it. Okay, and was delicious. So I have a story about him. Oh, no, cuz like, who doesn't have Oh, yeah. So many years ago, when I was still like calling myself a food writer, instead of whatever this is. I got invited to like a, like an industry event at Seattle Community College. And at this event, like some, some like fish producers, or like fish processors, and like, you know, product Promotion Board people from Japan came and presented all about they invited like chefs and food writers and food people from Seattle. And they did a whole presentation about how they were going to try to market hemo no to the non Japanese lead for the US consumer who did not grow up with this in Japan. And you were like, good, like exactly like they were like so then they wanted us to answer all these questions like which of these packagings do you think is most likely to get like Middle America to buy semi dried fish and I realize I shouldn't use the term Middle America. It's it's a loaded term. But right so we're all like a This is delicious. Like we would eat this all day long. And thanks for bringing This stuff and B, none of these, like, you know, adjusting the font on the packaging is probably not going to help that so so it was so sad It was so sad. And like Yeah. Wow, a good story. I don't know, I think I feel like like, like Japanese industries have gotten better at promoting Japanese products and culture abroad since then. Probably. Like, I bet I bet say select thing select things. Yeah, like things. Yeah, it's still weird that like everybody in America doesn't have a Japanese toilet because they are like, objectively superior.

Unknown Speaker 30:36

Matthew, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:37

actually the other day went online and was looking up how much it costs to it's like, $5,000 right?

Unknown Speaker 30:44

Well, no,

Unknown Speaker 30:45

it's actually not as much as I thought. So the basic like toto washlet with like, the basic features, but um, we're not talking about the whole toilet. We're talking about like, a seat. Okay, so the seat with the warmer and the B day Yeah. Made by toto is like 400 to $500.

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:05

why doesn't everybody

Unknown Speaker 31:06

I know because Americans spent 400 to $500 on things that are much less fantastic,

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:12

right? Like you're gonna use this multiple times a day. It is hard to describe if you've never experienced it, it is hard to convey just how good it feels to sit on a warm toilet seat, right. So So after we got back from Japan a few weeks ago, like for about a week, every time I sat on the toilet and the toilet T was freezing cold I got angry.

Unknown Speaker 31:34

I after we got back from Japan, I went out and bought one of those fairly inexpensive bday attachments for my toilet was like 80 bucks. That brand Toshi? Yeah. Ash and I managed to not get divorced installing it, which I was really proud of us for. And even though it did require a trip to the plumbing store, but it's not supposed to. It's just we broke something we weren't supposed to break. I think the worst thing I love having a bidet attachment on my toilet, but it's not a warm it's

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:05

not a word still. That's great.

Unknown Speaker 32:07

Yeah. Anyway,

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:08

I was wanting to warm my toilet seat. Like, I think I got stuck at like, you know, like, late, you know, getting up in the night and like, like, you know, the cold toilet seat and feeling hopeless and like never like, went the next step and was like, wait, like, I bet I could get a toilet seat warmer. I'm just realizing this.

Unknown Speaker 32:23

So Matthew, you need to add a new line item to your budget. Okay. You know, go ahead, look up the price. I think it's 499 for the warmer and the like the B day. Okay. It's like the baseline one. All right. I mean, it's it's a lot of money.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:39

Could I start with something? It's just a warmer maybe? Probably. Okay, I'm gonna look into this. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 32:45

Yeah, Toto washlet. But yeah, if you want all the bells and whistles and stuff, like you do have to pay a lot of money for that.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:51

Yeah. So I guess I guess like, the thing that we feel most strongly about on the show is like toys. That ASW are Yeah, right. You know what, you know, it's good for keeping that as warm. oily fish. I leave that. Yep. I totally pretend that I see the connection. All right. I

Unknown Speaker 33:11

was thinking of like, I don't know, like,

Unknown Speaker 33:13

I don't know.

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:15

Alright, so macros great. Buy it, eat it. Did I mention it's it's considered a sustainable fishery? I think. I think he did. And you can find us online. It's spelled out podcast.com where we'll link to the attachment that you can you can add to your to your toilet. We'll link to like the full toto washlets seat. We'll link to toilet stuff to the Saba me so resava me so recipe. And you can find us on Instagram at spilled milk podcast on Facebook. facebook.com slash build mouth podcast. We're definitely like, I know. We like glossed over entire cuisines worth of macro preparations. Yes, yes, we certainly did. And you're one of my favorite is glossed over macro. Like pheasant under glass. I do think of it a fair amount in terms of Spanish cuisine. Yeah, I think we blew it there. But we've actually just danisco eska ha That's true. I get anyway, every time I say that. I feel like I'm saying something I shouldn't say Yeah. And and Abby sercotel is our producer. Yeah, just I'm just dreaming dreaming about that warm toilet seat. Yeah, dreaming. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 34:26

Thank you for listening to spilled milk. The show that feels to your ears like a warm toilet. Yeah, for your butt.

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:33

That's right. That is what we are. Yeah, we are a warm toilet seat for your ears. I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.

Unknown Speaker 34:40

I'm Molly weissenberg.

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:50

Just making making jokes about economists before we started taping, that's what we always do.