464: Napkins

Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'm Matthew.


Molly Wizenberg:

And I'm Molly.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

And this Spilled Milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all, and you can't have any.


Molly Wizenberg:

Today, we are talking about, well, something that, really, you can't eat it all, which is napkins.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Actually, you can eat with them. You can put them on your lap, close to your special place.


Molly Wizenberg:

Close to your special place? And occasionally, I don't know, if you're using a paper napkin, you might eat a little bit of it by accident.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That's true. Sometimes, I will get a little bit of napkin or paper towel in my mouth and just feel like, yeah. It's probably digestible enough.


Molly Wizenberg:

Whatever. I mean, how many cupcake wrappers have you eaten in your life? Probably more than you would think.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Like an entire cupcake wrapper without noticing it?


Molly Wizenberg:

No. No, but you know how people, if you're really into cupcakes, like my child is, she will scrape her teeth along the cupcake paper to get every last crumb off. And I guarantee, she's eating some masticated wads of cupcake paper.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Absolutely. I thought you were going to say if you're really into cupcakes, then you're just going to plow, teeth first in, and ask questions later.


Molly Wizenberg:

You could. I mean, worse things have happened, way worse things have happened.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes, far worse things have happened than a child eating a cupcake wrapper.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. Okay. But this is not about cupcake wrappers, this is about napkins.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

No. Yeah, but, I mean, what if you tried to use napkins as cupcake wrappers?


Molly Wizenberg:

That would be fine.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Let's go down memory lane. What napkins did you grow up with?


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. So, Matthew, so the listeners should know that I did the bulk of the agenda for this episode, including the-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, the research, the napkin research.


Molly Wizenberg:

... "research". And I could not believe all the napkin memories I had. They were just burbling up. So...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'm glad, because I think I do have maybe one.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Well, I remember very clearly that when I was a kid, my mom always used paper napkins. We had a napkin every night at dinner, like a glass of milk.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, must be nice.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. Anyway, and she always used Vanity Fair brand paper napkins, which, do you know what I mean? They're the ones that seem sort of extra fancy. They're not the kind of waffly, weavy, kind of...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I absolutely know what you mean. The cheap ones are really thin and have kind of a knobbly texture-


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. And they're...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... and the Vanity Fair are smoother.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. They're smoother. They often have some sort of almost a floral trim. And anyway, my mom would buy these ones that... so they were also a little bigger than the cheaper ones, and she would always fold them in half to be a rectangle. Those were our nightly napkins. And it's so interesting to me now to think, wow, she had such a particular napkin brand and we had a particular way of setting them on the table so that you would see the trim.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That is so interesting. I mean, first of all, everyone obviously already knows this because everybody listens to your spin-off podcast, Molly's Nightly Napkins, Nightly Napkins with Molly Wizenberg. It's a podcast that comes out everyday but at 10:00 PM. My one napkin memory that I can think of was my mom teaching me how to fold the Vanity Fair napkin so that the trim was in the right orientation.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. Oh my God. So, wait, Judy Amster and Tony Negroni are both Vanity Fair napkin...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I mean, I think they must've been because I think we also had cheap shitty napkins, but I definitely remember this particular less. So it might've been for a special holiday meal or having people over, or something, because I don't think we had the nice napkins all the time, but maybe.


Molly Wizenberg:

Interesting. Okay. Well, okay, hold on, Matthew, because I'm not done. So, these were our nightly napkins, the Vanity Fair paper napkins, okay? But then...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

And other times of day, you weren't allowed to use napkins?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, not during the day. We had a daily napkin and a nightly napkin.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

It's like a Mark Bittman Vegan Before 6:00 then?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, just like that. No, but anyway. No, we used paper napkins everyday, Vanity Fair. And then whenever it was either a holiday, and Thanksgiving is coming up, so imagine me setting the Thanksgiving table as an adolescent, what I would do is in the dining room, my mom had this sideboard, this old wooden sideboard that I think might have been, I don't know, I'm probably getting this wrong, but a lot of our stuff was my dad's from his first marriage. And so it's this beautiful...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

You want to cordon that stuff off in its own sideboard.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. Well, no. So I think the sideboard might've come from his first marriage. I'm not sure. But anyway, our dining table did, I can tell you that. Anyway, so whenever it was holiday or if we were having a special dinner, we would eat in the dining room and I would be sent to the dining room. This is taking a long time. And it would be my job to go into the sideboard, which had both drawers and these cabinet doors that opened with a really satisfying click.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, yeah. I know what you mean, like where the latch might've had a little ball?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. God, yes. Anyway, and it was my job-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes, great sound.


Molly Wizenberg:

... to go into the sideboard drawer and get certain place mats, mom had a number of place mat sets, to get out place mats...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. Yes, I think we had place mat sets too.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. We had different place mats, probably about eight of each, and then cloth napkins, which would always be kept in the sideboard with the place mats. We never used cloth napkins on a regular ordinary night. Anyway, so yeah, I remember so clearly opening up the sideboard, and mom also kept these votive candles inside that were Vetiver scented, whatever that is?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That word appears in an R.E.M. song. That's the only thing I know about it.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Well, anyway, so the whole sideboard was perfumed with this sort of holiday aroma that I associate with those votives. So yeah, cloth napkins would come out. And then when I was especially young, I remember my mom using napkin rings on the cloth napkins, but then that kind of went the way of other things.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I feel like, yeah, I don't know the last time I saw a napkin ring in the wild, and I feel like napkin rings are a thing you would make as a craft project out of paper mache. I feel like I might even have done that.


Molly Wizenberg:

That sounds right. That sounds right. God, I remember there being a couple different sets of napkin rings at one point in my mom's history, and I remember that one of them was maybe carved wood and I almost wonder if... so I had an uncle who worked in the Middle East...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

At a napkin ring factory.


Molly Wizenberg:

No, he worked in the Middle East for a time, and he would always bring back these things, these beautiful brass pepper mills and things like that, and I almost wonder if he brought back some napkin rings. I remember some that were carved wood or brass. I seem to remember having a special napkin ring that was wood with a giraffe carved on it that I think I had as a child.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That sounds great. Was it part of a set with other animals, maybe?


Molly Wizenberg:

Probably.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Like a muskrat?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. Because this was a thing if you were born in the late 1970s. If you weren't maybe quite wealthy enough to have a silver spoon and silver rattle, you would be given your own set of wooden carved animal napkin rings.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yep. Well, that's the difference between you and me.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yup. Yeah, what did you get when you were a baby in the late '70s?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, I was going to ask, actually, did you ever have or did June ever have a special kids place mat? Because I think Iris did at one point that had maybe activities on it, or I could be thinking of a time we went to Denny's.


Molly Wizenberg:

No. I remember other kids having this when I was little, and it would have sometimes Miffy, the bunny, on it. Remember?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay, yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

There'll be different cartoon animals. I think I remember it from other people's houses, but I didn't have any at my house that I recall. My mother did... you know what? I had one entire place setting though that was Beatrix Potter, painted with [crosstalk 00:08:40]...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, like a plate with Peter Rabbit and shit on it?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. Yes.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes.


Molly Wizenberg:

And you know what? My mom saved it and still has that stuff, and June uses it when she goes to my mom's house.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That feels like a very '70s thing.


Molly Wizenberg:

God, isn't that the sweetest?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, it's cute.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh my God. It...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I mean, that is the story of a rabbit who goes through hell, but...


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. Nothing could be more appropriate for a nice, warm, cozy childhood.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Right. Like then reading a story about another child who gets threatened with death.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. Yes.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Have you ever been to a restaurant where they fold the napkins in some sort of fancy-ass way, like swans or the fan or the triangle?


Molly Wizenberg:

God, yes. Yes, particularly growing up in the '80s in the middle of the country, where I did, like any fancy restaurant would of course fold its napkins. I mean, probably coastal fancy restaurants were doing it too, but...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, yeah. No, not that I went to a lot of fancy restaurants as a kid, but when my parents sent me to café days [inaudible 00:09:43] for my birthday, I'm sure they folded the napkins, probably this dandy-up triangle.


Molly Wizenberg:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I think there's still occasional places. Have you ever taken the ferry to Bayonne Bridge island and bummed around there for the day or something?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I have, many times.


Molly Wizenberg:

You know that there are a couple of kind of nicer restaurants?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yep.


Molly Wizenberg:

I feel like they would fold the napkins.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I think you're absolutely right.


Molly Wizenberg:

Slightly outside, a suburb, a restaurant in a suburb that is kind of fancy, definitely still folds napkins.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, continental cuisine.


Molly Wizenberg:

There you go. Stuff-stuff with Heavy.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes. Have you ever...


Molly Wizenberg:

Do you remember that?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes, from Calvin Trillin, absolutely.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes, okay. All right, go on.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Have you ever done fancy napkin folding at home because you had literally nothing else to do?


Molly Wizenberg:

You know? I really hoped to get to that point during the COVID pandemic, but here we are, eight months in and I-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, I think you still got plenty of time.


Molly Wizenberg:

... I haven't started folding my napkins yet. Maybe that's what I'm going to do this winter.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, I'm glad you mentioned the predicament we find ourselves in, because I know you got some other research that you want to present and I'm looking forward to that, but we've made kind of a partial shift from paper to cloth napkins during this pandemic, yes.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, tell me about it. Wait a minute. Hold on. Or should we talk about this later?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. Yeah, let's tease that. There's no way people could skip to the next podcast now because they've got here about this size makeshift in the Amster-Burton household.


Molly Wizenberg:

When I was doing the "research" for this episode, I found a YouTube video that teaches you how to do the triangle napkin fold at home. You think we could link to it in the show notes?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I think we absolutely could. Have you tried it?


Molly Wizenberg:

I haven't tried it because honestly, it looks like you'd have to iron your cloth napkins before you can, and that is a bridge too far, my friend.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Which do you think is more difficult, folding a shirt KonMari style or folding a triangle napkin?


Molly Wizenberg:

I'm going to say folding a triangle napkin, because I KonMari my shirts all the time.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I do too.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. Wow, Matthew.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'm going to send you a photo of my shirt drawer. It's so me.


Molly Wizenberg:

I can't wait to see it. My shirt drawer is the only one that is fully KonMari'd. My pants drawer, my underwear and sock drawer, they're not as KonMari'd.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

My underwear drawer's in pretty good shape. Socks, no. Pants, this is the most interesting thing we've ever talked about in this show.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay, go on. Go on. Keep going.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

No, no. I'm stopping.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wait, but I was going to say, I want to see your shirt drawer because even my KonMari'd shirt drawer is still kind of me in that it's quite orderly but it still has some shirts that are going vertically as opposed to horizontally. It's mostly neat and tidy but only in a way that I can consider neat and tidy.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. Well, I left my phone in the other room, so ask me later and I'll send you a picture of my shirt drawers. I noticed this morning, a gray shirt next to a light blue shirt, next to a dark blue shirt, next to a gray shirt, next to another light blue shirt.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wow, Matthew. You really know how to keep things exciting.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, I used to be in a band.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wow, Matthew. You still have so much hair.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, mm-hmm (affirmative). And this is where we're at.


Molly Wizenberg:

Here we are. Okay, well, Matthew...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Tell me about the history of napkins.


Molly Wizenberg:

So, okay, I found this strangely interesting. I don't know what's wrong with me. Okay. Hold on. So the word napkin comes from middle English, which borrows from the French word nap, which means table cloth, and that still is French for table cloth today.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Wait a minute. I'm already interrupting. Do you think that implies that there was a time in France when people would just-


Molly Wizenberg:

When people wipe their mouths on the table cloth?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... wipe their mouths and hands on the skirt of the table cloth? That makes sense.


Molly Wizenberg:

I mean, it could be. I mean, who hasn't?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, absolutely. But now, we think of that as a breach of etiquette. But maybe back then, it was the height of fanciness.


Molly Wizenberg:

I didn't find anything about that, but admittedly, I did not go further than Wikipedia for my research here. So maybe we have some listeners who know a lot about...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Maybe friend of the show, Ken Albala.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, okay. Hi, Ken.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Hi, Ken. If anybody knows whether Renaissance Europeans used to... I mean, to be fair, Renaissance, your people probably just wiped everything on everything, right?


Molly Wizenberg:

Sure. I mean, there was no germ theory yet, right? When was germ theory, 1800s?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

When was Jenner? No, Pasteur. Yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

Jenner? Like Caitlyn Jenner?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

When was Caitlyn Jenner who...


Molly Wizenberg:

She came up with germ theory.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

She came up with germ theory. If I knew anything about the Kardashians, I would start riffing at this point, but I know-


Molly Wizenberg:

I reached my limit.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... there's a bunch of them and they all have their own show, I think? That's how they social distance?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

They had a private island. There was a thing about a private island, right?


Molly Wizenberg:

I don't know. I've given up on this bit already.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. So, Matthew, so the word napkin comes from the French word for table cloth, but strangely, napkin in French is a completely different term. It's [French 00:15:01], [French 00:15:03] meaning towel, [French 00:15:03] [crosstalk 00:15:03]-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).


Molly Wizenberg:

... towel. So, kind of weird that we didn't wind up calling... instead of using the word napkin in English, we could've used servees.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

But they do call them that in England.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes, we're about to get to that.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I don't think they call them servees, but I don't know, maybe they do.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. So, hold on. So this, I find interesting. So, according to Wikipedia, the word [French 00:15:27] or serviette, is used in the UK, Ireland, some parts of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Kenya, and South Africa. In some of these places, serviette refers to the paper variety, or is sort of the term used by... it's the common term for what we would call a napkin. While the word napkin refers to the cloth variety, and it's kind of the snobby term.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That is kind of interesting.


Molly Wizenberg:

Isn't that weird? Because in the U.S. at least, Americans think of French words as being the snobby words, right? So, you would think of... if we were going to use two distinct words for cloth and paper napkins here in the U.S., we would probably call paper ones napkins and cloth ones serviettes.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

But you'd be wrong.


Molly Wizenberg:

But that's the reverse of what's going on in some of these other anglophone countries that use the word serviette. There, it's the cheaper variety.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

This reminds me... okay, first of all, in Canada, of course, they have Nardwuar, the Human Serviette.


Molly Wizenberg:

What?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I don't really know anything about Nardwuar. He's this Vancouver musician who is best known for doing prank interviews of famous musicians. It's extremely Canadian thing. So you're welcome, Canadian listeners, I know who Nardwuar is, sort of. This reminds me of the Jack Handey joke, the deep thought that goes something like if you knew two guys named Flippy and Hambone, which one would you think was really into dolphins? Wrong, it's Hambone.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That's what it reminded me about when you said you would think serviette would be the fancy one.


Molly Wizenberg:

That's exactly what it's like.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. If you knew two guys named Serviette and Napkin...


Molly Wizenberg:

Which one do you think it would be French? Nope, it's Napkin.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

No, it's Napkin.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Anyway, to be fair, they both come from French words, just to remind everybody. Okay. All right. So let's talk about history now, okay?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Let's.


Molly Wizenberg:

So, napkins were used in ancient Rome. One of the...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. One of the earliest reference is in English, dates back to 1384-ish. Over in ancient Greece, I don't know why we jumped ahead to English references. Let's stay in the ancient world.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Let's stay in the ancient world.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. So, summaries of ancient history often say that ancient Greeks used bread to wipe their hands.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

It's funny.


Molly Wizenberg:

This is suggested by a couple different written sources, and the bread in both of both texts is referred to as apomagdalie, how would you pronounce that?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I like what you said.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'm not going to try.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Something like apomagdalie, which means the crumb of the bread. So, it wasn't like there was some special napkin bread or something that...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

If I was King Minos, the...


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay? I always thought it was King Minos. Is it King Minos?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, I don't know.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay, whatever. Go on.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'm King Minos. Okay, you can be whatever. You can be whoever you want.


Molly Wizenberg:

I'm going to be the Minotaur.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. You're going to be the Minotaur. I'll be King Minos, and let's just see where...


Molly Wizenberg:

No, I'll be his wife, Pasiphae. Oh, no, but I don't-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Let's just see where things go.


Molly Wizenberg:

... I don't want to mate with a bull. No, go on.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Wait, is that the Minotaur's parents?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. So King Minos' wife, Pasiphae, she-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, you're good at this.


Molly Wizenberg:

... had sex with a bull and she was the mother of the Minotaur, which was a monster.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. If I was King Minos, if I was one of these tyrants of Greek myth, I would have my servants bake special napkin bread. That's where I was going with this.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, for sure.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Right?


Molly Wizenberg:

Absolutely. I mean, yeah, like some sort of flat bread.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes, exactly. Some sort of really soft flat bread, and then I would wipe my hands and my face on it and then I would toss it back to the servants to eat.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wow, okay. All right.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'm not a good guy. I'm terrible.


Molly Wizenberg:

No, you're not. You're not. I was wondering if you would have your servants fold your napkin bread in a triangle fold.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes. Yes, I would. They would have to... it would have to somehow bake up that way.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, it would bake up in a triangle?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, they would have to fold it while it's still dough.


Molly Wizenberg:

Love this. Okay. I love it. I love it. This is like a crescent roll but a triangle roll.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

It's exactly like a crescent roll, yes.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay, great. All right. So...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, I mean, when you get crescent rolls, this is not a sponsored [inaudible 00:20:02] here, when you get crescent rolls, they come as triangles out of the tube, what if you just left them that way and bake [crosstalk 00:20:09]...


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, napkin bread.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Napkin bread.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. Oh my God, Matthew, I can't wait to pop open [crosstalk 00:20:17].


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Wait, I have another great idea.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

What if you're eating something, like a spicy and saucy, like a Nashville hot chicken or something that gets spicy grease all over your hands, right?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes, oh my God, yes.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. Then, you wipe your hands on the unbaked napkin bread dough, and then you bake it, and then you eat it?


Molly Wizenberg:

I love this.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I think we just revolutionized dinner.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wow. Okay. I feel like I might've just maxed out the volume on my mic there with that wow.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

It was worth it.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Matthew, can I go on?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Please.


Molly Wizenberg:

Moving on from bread, let's talk about paper napkins. The use of paper napkins actually dates back to ancient China where paper...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, the birthplace of paper.


Molly Wizenberg:

Where paper was invented, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So paper napkins were known as, you're going to have to pronounce this.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

[Foreign language 00:21:10].


Molly Wizenberg:

[Foreign language 00:21:11]. They were folded in squares and they were used for the serving of tea. They were first imported to the U.S. in the late 1800s. So interestingly, they were in use in China for centuries.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

So, wait, so the first paper napkins in the U.S. were imported from China?


Molly Wizenberg:

It sure seems that way.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Interesting.


Molly Wizenberg:

Again, I only consulted Wikipedia. This is not a proper history show. Okay. So they were apparently imported to the U.S. in the late 1800s, but they weren't widely used until 1948 as a result of Emily Post-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Interesting.


Molly Wizenberg:

... talking about them. She said, get this, "It's far better form to use paper napkins than linen napkins that were used at breakfast."


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, interesting.


Molly Wizenberg:

I just channeled Emily Post. I don't...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Perfectly. So you wouldn't have to come back into contact with your own morning filth.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, yeah. So, interestingly, but what I want to know is what do you do with the linen napkins that were used at breakfast? Do you use them again at breakfast the next day?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

So, it's okay if you re-encounter your own breakfast filth at a future breakfast-


Molly Wizenberg:

I don't know.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... but not at a different meal?


Molly Wizenberg:

I don't know.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, I don't either. Etiquette is really hard.


Molly Wizenberg:

We'd have to find the exact text here, but I think that one thing is clear, and that is that many trees died as a result of Emily Post's assertion. Anyway, but yeah, so 1948. I mean, my parents were both already alive at that point.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. Oh, wow. So they were around for the birth of... well, not the birth, but for the paper napkin revolution.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. What a time to be alive.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yup. My parents were around in 1948. They're pretty small.


Molly Wizenberg:

So let's start getting to the usage. So, conventionally, napkins are placed to the left of the place setting. Wiki...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, that's how we do it.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wikipedia said, strangely, and I don't know if this is just that somebody didn't know how to use prepositions very well when they were writing this Wikipedia entry.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. Or they were just fucking around.


Molly Wizenberg:

But they say that the convention is to place the napkin outside of the outer most fork. I was always taught you put the napkin to the left of the plate and the silverware goes on top of it.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, that's definitely how we do it at home.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Is somebody punking us on Wikipedia?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Somebody may be punking us. They did this just to ruin our napkin episode.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Anyway, so...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

But it didn't work because we're onto you, Kutcher. Yeah, I realize this isn't the silverware episode, we'll definitely do a separate silverware episode, but do you have a particular order that you place the fork, the spoon, the knife, the salad fork, the soup spoon, the-


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, so, Matthew, the general...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... crab cracker.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, the crab cracker. The general rule of course is that you place them in the order that they are to be used, working from the outside in. So my understanding is that if you were doing a full on place setting, you would do salad fork, so going from the left to the right, salad fork, dinner fork, knife, spoon, dessert fork and spoon up above the plate.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

And this is what you do at your house every night, right?


Molly Wizenberg:

Every night. Every night.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I mean, I heard this on your show Nightly Napkins.


Molly Wizenberg:

No. At my house, what I do is, so we use cloth napkins at my house and we set out usually only the silverware that we really need in that meal. So, sometimes, that's just a fork. The fork...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Just one fork for the three of you.


Molly Wizenberg:

One fork for the three of us, we pass it around. Also, we share with everybody in our COVID bubble. So.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, yeah, of course.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. Anyway, no. So, usually, it's one fork and a knife, and the knife faces the fork, the blade faces the fork.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

You know what? That's interesting because I was feeling like I don't have any strong feelings on this at all, but if I saw that someone in my family had set the table with the blade of the knife pointing toward the plate, I'd be like, "That's weird."


Molly Wizenberg:

Really?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

Isn't it funny these conventions that are so deep in us?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Also, we so rarely set out a knife.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, we do not often set out knives either. We eat a lot in sort of wide bowls. I think that this is a very American 2000s thing to eat in a big, wide bowl. I mean, certainly, this is done all over the world. I mean, my God, like Ramen bowls, but the idea of a dinner that is only served in a bowl seems a very contemporary thing in the U.S.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. I would say, our wide, wide bowls are, by far, the most common place setting.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, us too. And then we really only set out a spoon when we're actually going to be eating something that uses a spoon.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. Do you remember being taught how to set the table as a kid?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, for sure. Do I remember specifics? Not really. But I remember this being my job at some point, and yeah, being taught the right way to do it.


Molly Wizenberg:

Do you remember teaching Iris how to set the table?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes, I do. And that was one of Iris' main chores for quite a while.


Molly Wizenberg:

Did you and Laurie, when you got together, did you have the same table setting expectations?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, that's a good question. Probably not exactly the same, but other than that thing about pointing the knife blade toward the plate, I don't think I would've really cared.


Molly Wizenberg:

So I've been thinking about this because...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Because you care a lot.


Molly Wizenberg:

I don't care a lot, but when Ash sets the table, I can't, off the top of my head, think of what they're doing wrong, but they're doing something wrong. I think that they are putting the entire thing maybe to the right of the plate.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, I've seen that, yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

I think they're putting the entire thing to the right of the plate and...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I've also sometimes seen, sometimes, people put the knife on the right and the other silverware on the left, have you seen this?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes. I think that is sort of an informal way to do it. Yeah, that would be the fork goes on the napkin, which is on the left side of the plate, and then the knife... actually, I think that's how I was taught to do it as a kid. I think I was not taught [crosstalk 00:27:32]...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Because then, you pick up the fork with your left hand. You stab the meat. You slice it with your...


Molly Wizenberg:

You know what, Matthew?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah?


Molly Wizenberg:

I'm now realizing that the way I do it as an adult where I put everything on top of the napkin on the left side of the plate is not how I was taught as a kid. As a kid-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Interesting.


Molly Wizenberg:

... yeah, we only did the fork on top of the napkin, and then the knife face the plate on the right side.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I think I was taught to put everything on the napkin, but I'm not sure.


Molly Wizenberg:

Well, anyway, I think Ash puts the whole shebang on the right side of the plate and I've never said anything to them about it and I don't think they've ever noticed that I come along and move the entire thing to the left before we sit down.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, I guess they're going to find out, if they listen to this show.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. It's weird these things that you have to decide. I mean, there's so many things in partnership that you have to decide how much you care-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, of course.


Molly Wizenberg:

... whether you're going to deal with it. [crosstalk 00:28:23]...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Let's ask-


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... let me ask about your cloth napkin portfolio.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, God. Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Are they all the same, like a set? Or if not, how many different styles would you say you have?


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Can I tell you about my cloth napkins? Because all of them...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I literally just asked, so yes.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. So here's the deal, we have a kind of mustard color, wide, low enamel bowl. One of those Dansk or Copco bowls from the '70s that we keep all the napkins folded in. And we have accumulated these napkins over the years. I think that the first cloth napkins I ever owned were given to me and Brandon when we were engaged, and they were at that point already vintage. They were vintage linen...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh. Here, take my old napkins.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes, they were vintage linen napkins. And I still have them, okay? It has been 14, almost 15 years since we were engaged. I still...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Do you think they're old enough that they predate Emily Post telling everyone to use paper napkins?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, they do. No, they don't. They are slowly falling apart, actually. I've notice they're now, just now starting to get sort of holes around the hem. And then we also got some slightly nicer, newer linen napkins as wedding gifts. So initially, we had all these white linen napkins. I should clarify that we also never iron them, so they're always kind of soft and wrinkly, which is I like.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, it sounds nice.


Molly Wizenberg:

Then, when I started learning how to sew a handful of years ago, one of the first projects that I'd made were napkins, because it allows you to practice sewing a straight line. So...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. And also, it's literally just a square so you don't have to do anything.


Molly Wizenberg:

Exactly.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I don't know anything about sewing, I'm just being mean.


Molly Wizenberg:

No, but we have three different sort of more colorfully patterned cotton napkins that I sewed, and then the rest of our napkins are from a trip that Brandon and I took to Oaxaca, also a handful of years ago, they're cotton napkins with fringe. And then Ash went to Mexico for work, when they were still working in tech, and they brought home a bunch of beautiful woven napkins from Mexico, but we actually discovered in looking at them that they're place mats but we use them as napkins. So, we have all of these in circulation. We definitely have more than one of some of them, but each night, we each get to choose which napkin we're having-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, that's so sweet.


Molly Wizenberg:

... if we're starting fresh. Sometimes, we all remember what napkin we had the night before and it didn't get so dirty that we threw it in the laundry and then we have to use that one again. Yeah.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. That's going to be good segue into the thing that I want to ask next, except I want to talk about my array of cloth napkins. Our family's, it's a profusion, it's a cacophony. I would say we have 17 different patterns, at least.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wait. Will you talk about how you guys decided to go from paper to cloth during the pandemic?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, that's right. I teased that earlier and I forgot. [crosstalk 00:31:32].


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. No, I want to know.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Laurie started setting the table with cloth napkins. I was like, okay, I guess we're doing this now.


Molly Wizenberg:

So you had cloth napkins, you just weren't using them?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Exactly, yes.


Molly Wizenberg:

That seems very un-Marie Kondo of you.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, no. We have a lot of bullshit around here. Remember when you used to have company over?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes, oh my God. Yes, I remember that. Wait, you would use cloth napkins?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I think we would use cloth napkins when we had company over.


Molly Wizenberg:

You never used cloth napkins when I came over.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, not everybody is company.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh my God.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, I mean, shouldn't you consider that a compliment?


Molly Wizenberg:

Fine. We're family.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'm instructing you to consider this obvious insult a compliment. Thanks.


Molly Wizenberg:

Great. Go on. Go on.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

But I don't know how we ended up with so many different cloth napkins. I guess people give them? I don't know. Probably the most of the largest number of any one kind we have are some boring blue cotton ones, then we have some kind of bluish gray kind of textured cotton ones. We have some flowery ones that are kind of green, that are like an old oil cloth table cloth pattern kind of. There's some that are off white that may have started out as white, I'm not sure.


Molly Wizenberg:

You know what I'm realizing? So, wait. Did your family sew any of these or you've just accumulated these over the years?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

No, just accumulated them.


Molly Wizenberg:

I'm remembering that, so for June's school, we have to do a certain number of volunteer hours a year, and a few years ago, one of the things that in a Montessori preschool kids learn all about is what's called practical life, so polishing shoes, arranging flowers, setting the table.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I learned to polish shoes at some point, I don't do it.


Molly Wizenberg:

Well, so the kids would set the table every day for lunch with a table cloth and cloth napkins and a little vase with flowers. And...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

That's adorable.


Molly Wizenberg:

Isn't it adorable? But at one point, when June was in preschool, the classroom needed new cloth napkins, and so I sewed something like 18 cloth napkins using a fabric that was printed with the Hungry Caterpillar.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Cute.


Molly Wizenberg:

Anyway, oh my God. I'm just remember now.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Wait. So does that mean they have a little kid shoe shine stand?


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, there was like a little work in the classroom, a little tray that had a pair of kids size boots on them, and those boots just got polished over and over and over again.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

But was there a place where someone would sit and have their shoes polished and gossip with the shoe shine kid?


Molly Wizenberg:

I love the idea of that, but no.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I love that idea so much. Yeah, what's the latest, Sal?


Molly Wizenberg:

Anyway, yeah. Okay. So, Matthew, how many times do you use your cloth napkins before washing them?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

So, not enough times. And often, I will set one aside that I use for breakfast and it'll get as far as lunch. I think it's pretty unusual for me to stick to one napkin throughout the day. And I do sometimes also still use paper napkins either because it's closer at hand or I'm eating something messy.


Molly Wizenberg:

So, this is interesting. My friend, Ben, he used cloth napkins I think maybe before Brandon and I ever did, and I remember him at the end of a meal, he would always take, at least his napkin and his wife's napkin, since they were going to be there the next night, I mean, we as the guests weren't necessarily, he would take their napkins-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Unless you got lucky.


Molly Wizenberg:

... and fold them in half, so they were kind of a long rectangle, and drape them over the back of the chair so that the next day, they would know whose napkin was whose and they would use it again. And I have tried doing this in our house and inevitably, my spouse always takes them and puts them back in the napkin bowl. But I like this idea of a neatly draped napkin over the back of the chair.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I might try this. I think I'm going to try this. Ask me whether I actually did this in a future episode.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. But yeah, for us, it's like a feeling thing. If you know that you've wiped your mouth a bunch of times during the meal or if the meal got your hands or your mouth really messy, inevitably, we throw the napkin down the laundry shoot, as we call it, which is the stairs to the basement at the end of [crosstalk 00:36:00]...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Wait. Have we talked about... I'm sure we have talked about that in the house that I lived in from age maybe five to 11, we had a laundry shoot?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yes, we've talked about this.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

So great.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh my God. I fantasize about having a laundry shoot someday. I cannot wait.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

It is my ultimate fantasy.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, me too.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yes.


Molly Wizenberg:

Anyway, but yeah. Most of the time, I would say we use our napkins over a couple of days and I never even think twice about it. I don't even remember ever have... I don't remember what I did before we had cloth napkins when I was an adult. It seems so foreign to me.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. I remember because it was earlier this year, and this gets to the last thing that I want to talk about, is how do you actually use the napkin when you're at the table? Because I have found that this varies a lot from person to person and I am a napkin ruiner. If you give me a paper napkin, we could be eating, I don't know, what's a non-messy food? Maybe I just never eat non-messy food.


Molly Wizenberg:

Like cold sandwiches.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

We could be eating cold sandwiches and if you give me a paper napkin, by the end of the meal, it will look like a crow's nest. No, that's a thing at a boat. It will look like a pile of cobwebs because I've destroyed it and just imbued all of my filth into every fiber of that napkin.


Molly Wizenberg:

That's so interesting. Okay, so when...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I'll wipe my mouth 50 times during a meal. I don't know. I'm not such [crosstalk 00:37:34].


Molly Wizenberg:

Well, the other thing that I've noticed about how you wipe your mouth is you take the napkin in one hand and sort of smear at the corners of your mouth or at your beard. Whereas when I use a napkin, I tend to hold it in both hands so it is more unfolded. Do you know what I mean?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. Do you think that makes a difference in terms of how, what kind of damage you're doing to the napkin?


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. I never wad up a napkin, never.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, yeah. I'm a wadder.


Molly Wizenberg:

No. So, even if I'm using a paper napkin, I will unfold it to the point where it's still two thicknesses thick, okay?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay. Yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

So, the napkins at your house, the square ones, the just sort of inexpensive square ones, right?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

I will open those by one fold so it's still two things thick and I will lay it in my lap and I will keep it flat in my lap, and if I need to-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, that's what I would do too.


Molly Wizenberg:

... pick it up and wipe my mouth, I will pick it up with both hands and wipe it. And if I do anything that crumples it or folds it more, it's only at the end of the meal, and I might fold it a couple more times and tuck it under the rim of my plate.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, because my problem is for some reason, I can't handle having my hands be dirty during the meal. If I pick up a saucy rib or something, immediately after taking a bite, I have to put it down and completely wipe off my hand, even though they're going to get saucy again three seconds later.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wait. Do you not lick your fingers?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Not really.


Molly Wizenberg:

Oh, man. So if I'm eating something like that, I will lick my fingers clean and then I will kind of keep my hands up on the table, kind of placed above the plate-


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, this makes a lot more sense than what I do.


Molly Wizenberg:

... like leaning my forearms against the rim of the table. I do the same thing, like often around the holidays, we will have a big crab feed, and...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, that's when you set out the crab cracker that we talked about earlier.


Molly Wizenberg:

We set up the crab cracker. But yeah, your hands are...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

A crab cracker is a popular Christmas novelty that they have in England. You pull on the end of this paper [crosstalk 00:39:41]-


Molly Wizenberg:

Makes a popping...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... it makes a popping sound, then a crab jumps out and sings Under the Sea.


Molly Wizenberg:

Matthew. Anyway, when you are eating, when you're picking apart crab, your hands get so gnarly. Whether it's Dungeness crab on the West coast or blue crab in the Chesapeake Bay, your hands get gnarly. And what I do is I just embrace the gnar and I lick my hands as many times as I can, but in general, through the entire meal, my hands are above the table and I just embrace the idea that I'm getting crab stuff all over my solo cup of beer or my champagne glass or whatever.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

You got to figure that if you posted a video of you demolishing a crab and licking your fingers a bunch of times, this would become a popular fetish video in some community, right?


Molly Wizenberg:

I have never thought about myself that way, Matthew, but I'm so glad you have.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I mean, not you specifically, but you described it in such detail.


Molly Wizenberg:

Because I love eating crab like that.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, of course.


Molly Wizenberg:

Even though my hands are usually pruney by the end.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, there would definitely be an extreme closeup of the pruney fingertips at the end of the video.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah, yeah.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay. So, wait, Matthew, you mentioned that sometimes, you will grab a paper napkin just because it's close by. Talk to me about this. What do you mean it's close by?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Well, okay. So, recently, I had a recent breakthrough, I wasn't going to bring this up because it's both boring and inexplicable, like why didn't you figure this out months ago, but I realized that I was continuing to use paper napkins because the cloth napkins were stored in the hall, so 11 steps away from the dining room table rather than right next to the dining room table. So I'm like, wait a minute, and I took some of the cloth napkins and I put them next to the dining room table, and now, I can reach out and grab a cloth napkin. But the problem with that is now, sometimes, I got through seven cloth napkins in a day. So, the-


Molly Wizenberg:

What is going on, Matthew?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

... the solution to all of this is to just keep me away from food.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Wow.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

But then where would this show be?


Molly Wizenberg:

Have you thought about using a napkin bowl, like we do? A place where all your clean folded napkins go, and it sits near the table.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

We did start doing that. We now have a napkin bowl.


Molly Wizenberg:

Okay, great. Great. I really love having napkins that I have memories of when I acquired them or when I sewed them.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Of course you do.


Molly Wizenberg:

This is so me. I love it. Oh, it makes me really happy.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Can you, on your YouTube channel where you post all of those crab eating videos, could you post a tour of your napkins and what each one means to you?


Molly Wizenberg:

Absolutely.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Okay.


Molly Wizenberg:

But I won't.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Great.


Molly Wizenberg:

Wait, Matthew, hold on. You have a napkin holder for your paper napkins, right?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. It's a cheap-ass wood veneer napkin holder that has served us well for many, many years.


Molly Wizenberg:

I always think of you guys with your napkin holder. I remember...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I think everyone does.


Molly Wizenberg:

So when I was in first grade...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

In all of our family portraits, we're holding it like...


Molly Wizenberg:

An infant?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Like an infant, yeah, cradling it with one hand kind of.


Molly Wizenberg:

They make all kinds of napkin holder swaddles, it's so cute.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Of course. And for the photos, we'll put the Vanity Fair napkins in there, obviously.


Molly Wizenberg:

No. Okay. When I was in first grade, we had a woodworking project we had to do and we had to choose one of three different things that we could make. You could either make a cutting board, which was oval shaped and made from two pieces of wood glued together.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, nice.


Molly Wizenberg:

You sand it and stain it. Or you could make a napkin holder, or I don't remember the third one. But I made a cutting board, and my mom still uses it, and I distinctly remember as a first grader being like, "Why would we use a napkin holder?" Because my family, even though we used paper napkins, didn't use a napkin holder.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

And you didn't start using it in order to make the kid feel like she did something useful?


Molly Wizenberg:

Well, no, but I didn't make one.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Oh, you didn't make one. All right.


Molly Wizenberg:

No, I chose to make a cutting board, specifically because I was like, "Why would we use a napkin holder?"


Matthew Amster-Burton:

When I was in shop class in eighth grade, we made baseball bats, and it was so awesome. My baseball sucked, but it was really fun to make it. I think it turned out to be 18 inches long.


Molly Wizenberg:

You should get into woodworking again, Matthew.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I should. I should get a lathe.


Molly Wizenberg:

You should. Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

You should put a lathe in my apartment, for sure.


Molly Wizenberg:

I cannot believe where we've gone with this stupid episode.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

I knew this would be a great episode, if I do say so.


Molly Wizenberg:

I can't wait for our silverware episode.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. Okay. So if you want to weigh in, you can send us an email, [email protected], or you can get on the Reddit at reddit.com/r/everythingspilledmilk. I'll start a thread for this episode so you can tell us what... give us a tour of your cloth napkins and what each one means to you.


Molly Wizenberg:

Hey, wait, Matthew, [crosstalk 00:44:40]...


Matthew Amster-Burton:

And encourage Molly to post that video, the crab video.


Molly Wizenberg:

Hey, Matthew, do you want to announce that we're going to be starting to read some listener mail on the air or answer some listener questions on the air?


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. Here's what I think we should do. So, if you have a question for us, it doesn't have to be related to the topic of a particular episode, although it could be a follow-up question of an episode. We're going to look through your questions, I think probably answer one or two per episode, and I don't know. How do we make sure we get good questions?


Molly Wizenberg:

I think that they're just going to come in and sometimes, they'll be bad.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yeah. What do you want to know? Something that we left you wondering at the end of an episode, probably everything since many of our episodes contain no actual information. Ask us, [email protected] Ask us a question, we might read it on the air.


Molly Wizenberg:

Yeah. As always, we owe everything to our producer, Abby Cerquitella.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Yup. And until next time. Thank you for listening to Spilled Milk.


Molly Wizenberg:

The show where we're wiping and wadding.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

We're wiping and wadding. I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.


Molly Wizenberg:

I'm Molly Wizenberg. Okay. I really opened up a can of whoop-ass on that.


Matthew Amster-Burton:

Or worms.