490: Chili

Molly 0:04

I'm Molly.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:04

And I'm Matthew.

Molly 0:05

And this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all. And you can't have any ever,

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:11


Unknown Speaker 0:12

Oh, well, God

Molly 0:13

we are Matthew, we're 10. No, we're 11 years into doing the show. And we still haven't given them any.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:19

That's true. It's time. It's time for us to give it up.

Unknown Speaker 0:22


Molly 0:23


Matthew Amster-Burton 0:24

So all right. So that's our news of the week listeners. We're giving it up. So get in line.

Molly 0:28

today. We're talking about chili. That's right, chili. We might have done this before, but we don't we can't find a record of it. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:37

like if we have like the Internet has forgotten about it. But it seems of all the things we've said like it seems like we would have done this by now. This one really struck something deep for me.

Molly 0:49

I know it did. I know it did. I'm eager to go deep with you, especially since you're giving it up.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:55

That's right. You can you can go deep with us on an emotional level.

Molly 1:01

We always go deep on an emotional level. I've cried a lot on this show is a beautiful, yeah. Beautiful place to give it all up.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:10

Oh, and speaking of going deep on an emotional level producer, Abby is producing a new podcast. She's not leaving us. Don't worry.

Molly 1:16

No, no producer Abby has enough producer Abby to go around.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:20

Yes. She's giving it up in terms of podcast producing.

Molly 1:25

Okay, hold on. Anyway, producer Abby is now the producer, also of the podcast. We are magic, which is hosted by Maggie Battista, somebody I've known from around the food world for a very long time, I think at least a decade. And in her new podcast, she explores a really important intersection. That's the intersection between entrepreneurship and personal growth, or sort of getting your work aligned with you. So she does this through her own solo episodes through some reflections on concepts and practices that have helped her grow her own business.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:01

Yeah, I like the idea of a podcast about entrepreneurship that isn't hosted by someone who's some jerk.

Molly 2:07

I love that too. So check out Maggie Battista, his new podcast. We are magic.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:13

Excellent. And we'll link to that in the in the episode description.

Molly 2:16

Alright, so anyway, we're talking about chili today. And this episode was suggested by Sarah F. From Matthews. Other job?

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:24

Yes. We have a lot of Sarah's at work. We've no no shortage of Sarah, Sarah F. got in touch to ask whether we had done a chili episode. And I was like, Yeah, of course. We've done a chili episode. And then I couldn't find one. And specifically, she wanted to know whether white chicken chili and vegetarian chili count has chili. And I feel like I just want to like say up fried. Sure. Yes, they do.

Molly 2:46

Yeah, let's just get that right out of the way. Yeah, I mean, I'm not interested in gatekeeping the word chili

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:51

went out. So that was our chili episode I met.

Molly 2:54

You know, Matthew, it occurs to me, since I don't think I've spoken with Sara F at your office. I need to get back into my stick of contacting support at your work. And

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:07

the other day how much I've been missing this and having some random person at work. Say your friend Molly showed up to the queue. And she said to say hi.

Molly 3:16

It's my favorite thing to do. God,

Unknown Speaker 3:18

I love it so much delightful.

Molly 3:21

Okay. Anyway, so chili is a huge topic. And of course, the origin of it is contentious. People have super strong opinions about how to make it there are tons of recipes. varieties, I mean, white chicken, chili, vegetarian chili are just a couple of variations. And then of course, there's canned, there's homemade. What are we going to do, Matthew?

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:42

So here's here's my proposal. First of all, like, I got my second shot yesterday. And so I'm I'm reading on how many cylinders is like not all the cylinders,

Molly 3:52

so it caught up to you. Oh, yeah, yeah. When I spoke to you yesterday, you were in fighting form.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:58

Oh, yeah. So that was like, that was like two hours afterwards. And then like by that last night, I was like, but I feel like fine this morning. So like, if I'm a V eight engine, I think I'm firing on six and a half cylinders.

Molly 4:12

Oh my god. That's pretty great. Pretty good, right? Yeah. After I had my second shot.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:16

I mean, as I told you, I was pretty much just like drooling and napping for 24 definitely planning to take a nap this afternoon. But I do that a lot. So my proposal is we make this just is not we're not trying to be definitive on any aspect of Chili. We're just two friends talking about Chili.

Molly 4:34

God, that is exactly what we are Matthew.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:37

And we could make this a new segment like chili chat.

Molly 4:40

It's like coffee chat, but it's different. Okay, so we also should say that we're not from Texas.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:47

Yeah. Although you're like Oklahoma I've heard is not very far from

Molly 4:51

Texas. It's Texas adjacent, as they say these days. Yeah. And even though I'm from Oklahoma, like I just don't think I'm like A legit person from Oklahoma in that my

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:03

parent is you're not a Native American person.

Molly 5:06

Well, yeah, yeah, but even more than that my parents were from the east coast and they kind of like they didn't really you know, like they didn't embrace the chili traditions of our new region, Oklahoma, Texas, etc. The way that they could have once

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:25

Yeah, no, whereas I grew up in a house that was was mostly cowboy hats there were like eight gallon hats. 10 gallon hats like at one point so I got a 50 gallon hat and like one of my one of my younger brothers fell into it and we had to like call the authorities. Oh, all right, memory lane. So it's back to Chili chat. This is Chili Chat is just went to Chile love and friends talk about whatever's on their mind.

Molly 5:51

You're listening to Chili chat.

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:52

You're listening to chili chat on spilled milk. So I went down for my vaccine appointment in Renton, which is like 10 miles from Seattle, because that's where Kaiser was doing appointments. And we've been getting like a zip car to go down there. And usually the zip car we get has Sirius XM Radio, which is like satellite radio designed for boring middle class grown up

Molly 6:16

I was gonna say it's the my least favorite way of listening to music. It's

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:20

absolutely like it's appalling. And yet they have a station called lithium that plays all of your alternative rock 90s favorites. And it's,

Molly 6:29

you know, I usually listen to music through Spotify. Oh, yeah, me too. I sometimes listen to like, how God it's some dumb playlist or radio thing they have called like, good times great oldies.

Unknown Speaker 6:43

Like Is that really

Unknown Speaker 6:44

what it is? Hold on. I'm

Molly 6:46

gonna look it up until like, cuz that

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:47

sounds like like, you know, stuff from the 50s. Like,

Molly 6:51

I mean, I think of oldies as like Elvis and like Motown. Yeah, creams. No. Now, good times, great oldies, is what the playlist is called classic mix of pop rock and folk hits from decades past. And it's got everything from like Fleetwood Mac to you know, Paul Simon Bruce Springsteen, Van Morrison, Joni Mitchell, I always skip over Joni Mitchell The Rolling Stones

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:18

gonna get more emails about this than anything else you've ever said. This is your this. This is a like, like flames of hell level hot take you've just made.

Molly 7:27

There's also some cats do or use of Cat Stevens. And then there's James Taylor. I always skip James Taylor. Gotta hate James.

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:34

My mom loved James Taylor when I when I was growing up, and it didn't take Yeah,

Molly 7:38

yeah. Anyway, but what I wanted to say is that I was through this radio thing on Spotify, which I do love skipping around on. It's also got Johnny Cash, you know, like Folsom Prison blues, all that stuff. Oh, God, Jimi Hendrix all Along the Watchtower. I mean, anyway, but what I was going to say is on this list is Only the good die young by Billy Joel. The lyrics of which I've had in my head, literally 24 hours a day for like a week.

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:08

And I don't think I know any of the lyrics except for the title refrain.

Molly 8:11

Matthew, I had not paid attention to what the lyrics were until I listened last week. And it's basically Billy Joel shaming a Catholic school girl to give it up for him.

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:24

Oh, yeah. Okay, no.

Molly 8:28

Sooner or later it comes down to fate. I might as well be the one. Come out Virginia, show me a smile, throw up a signal. I'll

Unknown Speaker 8:36

mow it don't remember, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:38

got it wrong. This is this kind of brings up an interesting point. And

Molly 8:41

like, so disappointing to me because I find the song so catchy and yet I'm like, I'm basically singing like a deflowering anthem, and I hate it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:51

Yeah, like, I feel like a lot of my favorite songs are like delivered in in the voice of like a character who's not a nice person, but then I have to ask myself like, Is that is that Billy Joel talking? Or is it like a Billy Joel character?

Molly 9:06

Okay, okay. Even if it isn't Billy Joel. I don't like I skipped past the song because I don't want to explain to my child what's going on in the song. Oh, yeah. That's like like I just feel like

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:20

I'm not to try to defend it.

Molly 9:22

Yeah, no, I don't want to hear songs in which dudes are trying to convince girls to fuck them.

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:27

Yeah, I mean that like that does

Molly 9:30

that does roll out a lot of soft pseudo but like by coercion.

Unknown Speaker 9:34

Yeah, no, that's not not falling shaming.

Molly 9:37

Yeah. Alright, so

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:38

this is chili chat. Okay,

Molly 9:43

let's go on. So Memory Lane Matthew, take me there. Only the good die young. All right. So

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:49

I did not go to Catholic school but I did eat chili at school. good segue. So when I was in elementary school, Wednesday was chilly day. You would get this lunch order form in the morning that all the kids would write like their lunch order on the same order form everyone who got hot lunch. And to get chili you would write ch on the on the lunch order sheet. And yeah, wait

Molly 10:13

a minute, but how many things were available for lunch? Like why was there an order form?

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:18

I think there were two soup options. I don't really know what else because like, I wouldn't get hot lunch every day. Like mostly chili day maybe. And so I think I think you could put ch for chili or ck and for chicken noodle

Molly 10:31

God, do you know what I would do to be presented a lunch order sheet in the morning? I know Isn't it great? Just write something on it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:38

Yeah. And I remember thinking like, you know if like Sunday class wasn't wasn't like treating me right in the morning, I would think okay, well, when this is over, it's gonna be chilly. Oh my god. So I love chili as a kid and so I love the the styrofoam cup of chili that I get from the school cafeteria so much that I had my mom call and ask them for the recipe and they said it was Stagg country chili.

Molly 11:01

Oh, that's delightful, which comes in

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:02

a can right, which comes in a can I'm sure they were buying like the big like number 10 can. This is something that I still buy often, like, try and keep around today and it tastes exactly the same.

Unknown Speaker 11:13


Molly 11:14

that's great. I love that.

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:16

I will I will definitely always put hot sauce in it because it has no heat whatsoever. Yeah, but and yeah, put a little little chatter on top. But other than that, it tastes like Wednesdays at Catlin gables school.

Molly 11:27

That's great. That is great.

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:29

So chili was also one of the first things that I learned to cook my mom is a huge chili fan. And I think just kind of like had the idea that like this would be a good a good thing for like a kid who's interested in cooking to learn how to make because it's pretty easy. I mean, you can you can sort of like make chili as easy or complicated as you want, I guess. And so we had this book that I when I when I looked looked up the book, I was surprised to learn that this book, chili badness by Jane Beutel, which my mom just kind of found in her in her cookbook collection sold over a million copies. Oh my god, like the most 80s cover you can possibly imagine. And it's now like,

Molly 12:06

wait with Jane Fonda on the cover doing like a workout post because that's the most 80s cover.

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:11

You're right. It would not seem out of place. Okay. Yeah. This is Jane Fonda it was it was packaged with Jane Fonda's chili workout videos.

Molly 12:21

Yeah, yeah, you know, I always get my protein after a big workout or before a big workout. I can't remember when I'm supposed to get my protein but I always get it. I always get it through chili. Well, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:34

mean, the the revolutionary thing about Jane Fonda videos was that she would get her protein during the workout. Like she would do a couple of stretches and like reach into a bowl of chili and just kind of stuff some in her mouth and continue stretching. It was incredible. It was a tour de force. She

Molly 12:48

was a real groundbreaker.

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:52

Her leotard would end up smeared with jelly.

Molly 12:56

Yeah, I do it so June. June has a bit of a bad habit of using her clothes as napkins.

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:02

I also have this habit. Yeah, she

Molly 13:04

learned this from Jane Fonda.

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:06

Yeah, I think so. Okay, go on. And that's I think that's pretty much so yeah. So I make there was some chili recipe that I like to make from from Chile madness. I don't remember which one but it was tasty. Definitely made with ground beef. That's great. Okay, that's my cellie memory lane.

Molly 13:19

Great. So I don't come from a long line of chili people. I come from a line of and dive men. Yeah. And what oh, and and Negroni drinkers.

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:32

Yeah, that makes sense. Cuz I think I think those can go together. Like, Oh,

Molly 13:37

my God. Wait a minute. I meant to tell you, Matthew. Oh, yeah. So we recently like rented an Airbnb with my mom for a weekend. Ash. And I did. And I like, I don't remember what the context was. I was pouring a glass of wine or No, mom was making me a Negroni.

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:54


Molly 13:54

yeah. She brought like the bar ingredients. Oh, yeah. That sounds great. Anyway, mom was making me a Negroni. And as she was stirring it, she goes, I like it. crackling cold.

Unknown Speaker 14:11

Oh, God, it

Molly 14:11

was great. Anyway, okay.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:14

I've definitely worked that phrase into conversation around the house a couple of times.

Molly 14:18

I satisfy I love it. Okay. So when I was Gosh, when I was in eighth grade, my cousin Sarah was in high school and she did a junior year abroad in Germany. She was in northern Germany. I don't even remember what the nearest town was. But she was in like a small, small to medium sized town.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:42

Yeah, like the region best known for chili.

Molly 14:45

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My big Christmas present that year. That eighth grade year, was that my mom presented me and my cousin Katie, who was Sarah's little sister, with a trip to Germany. for spring break to go see Sarah. I mean, epic, epic stuff.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:05

This is what the movie National Lampoon's European vacation was.

Molly 15:08

Exactly, exactly. It was Toni Negroni with two middle schoolers. Yep. Going to go meet a high schooler in like rural northern Germany.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:18

And did she show you the nightlife?

Molly 15:20

Well, actually, we did somehow learn about we my mom took us to Berlin, actually, we went and met up with Sara met her host family, we went to a Viking Museum, where we saw actual Vikings that had been like preserved in a peat bog.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:37


Molly 15:38

And there were diagrams of like, how they had done their hair.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:42

And so and so you've been you've been doing Viking Viking hairstyle ever since.

Molly 15:47

Well, afterward, we went home and you know, like, got into hysterics trying to do each other's hair that way. Oh,

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:55

yes, of course.

Molly 15:56

I mean, obviously.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:57

I love that I asked you did you experience the nightlife? You and you were like, Well, I mean, we went to Berlin and we saw preserved Viking did a Viking musician with that. Wait, wait, wait, I

Unknown Speaker 16:08

should add I should add that.

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:10

No, no, no. You know what a fucking rage.

Molly 16:12

Hold on. The Viking museum was not in Berlin. Sorry. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:17

beg you for clarifying.

Molly 16:19

The Viking museum was out in whatever town Sara was in. Okay. And we also went to like a small village called volf. See? No, maybe that's not what it was called.

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:30

Are you thinking of the funk band? vulfpeck No, I'm,

Molly 16:33

I'm confusing it with the lake near Berlin where there's where there were like, there was a bunch of Nazi meetings. Okay. Anyway, whatever. We did a whole bunch of really fun stuff.

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:46

Yeah, it sounds like it.

Molly 16:48

But what we did do in Berlin was we had read in the guidebook we had like a Lonely Planet guide book or something horse we had read that there was a condom shop that sold like all condoms, like

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:58

oh, yeah, there condom mania type of

Molly 17:00

Exactly. And we went, and this was with my mother. And we got there like right before it opened. And there were a couple of like German school boys outside like giggling and looking through the window. It was delightful.

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:14

That is that is wonderful.

Molly 17:16

And I got a poster that was like, drawings of all these different condoms with like, Viking horns. Yeah, like via there was a Viking horn one there was one that had graffiti on it that said like Kilroy Was here or whatever. Anyway, but what I really am trying to say here in Chili chat is that when we were visiting completely

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:43

forgot this was gonna somehow involve Chili, right?

Molly 17:46

When we were visiting Sara's host family, Sara's host mother made us chili using a Maggi seasoning packet. Like you would get an old pass like an old El Paso taco seasoning packet. But this was by the company Maggi that also makes like Maggi sauce. Am I pronouncing this right?

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:05

So this is this is a matter of much debate. It's pronounced differently in different parts of the world. Tell me

Molly 18:11

how how did how where am I pronouncing it from?

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:14

So so I think I think you've got kind of the the East Asia pronunciation going which which is how I say it also.

Molly 18:21

Okay, anyway, it was my first time ever encountering the company Maggi and, and I loved this chili. I mean, it was basically you know, kidney beans, beef and the seasoning packet and onions, whatever. I loved it. Like I have never had anything that like made me go chili and this for me. And I remember that after that trip before Sarah came back to the States, she sent us like a whole bunch of the seasoning packets.

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:52

That's awesome.

Molly 18:53

And I I've never forgotten them. Like, I remember sitting at my parents kitchen table in Oklahoma. Eating that chili over like, sort of crushed up boiled potatoes. Oh, sure. Oh my god, it was so good. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:08

didn't put on the agenda. Anything about using chili as a topic. We should talk about this a little bit. We should. We should.

Molly 19:14

Okay, in addition to my, my beloved German memories of Chili,

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:19

of course, we all have them.

Molly 19:21

When I was in high school, there was a bookstore in oklahoma city that had a little cafe next to it. And this was like one of the only places in town where you could get espresso drinks. Oh, yeah. And of course, I was not drinking espresso drinks like you know in the form of espresso but I did love a mocha and iced mocha. And I remember after school, my favorite thing to do was to go to this cafe at this bookstore in a strip mall because it was Oklahoma City. Yeah. And I would get a cup of white chicken chili, this like kind of just plain scone biscuit type thing they had and an iced mocha

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:57

and great God.

Unknown Speaker 20:00

It was the best I also remember around the same time so it sounds like the the most like bowel stimulating veal

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:08

I can imagine but also sounds great.

Molly 20:10

I know isn't it? Weird combo? So weird. Oh, I think it was actually a poppy seed scone

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:18

sounds that sounds like a good combination. Somehow.

Molly 20:21

I love your faith in this idea. One thing I want to add before we leave memory lane is that there was a period of time when Wendy's had baked potato bars. Do you remember this?

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:31

I do. And I remember also having Wendy's chili and that you could order like a bowl and it was like a oval shaped bowl. Yes,

Molly 20:38

yes. And you could you could get a big potato with chili on top of that. And then put all the toppings from the big potato bar on there. Oh, yeah. And this was a big deal. So there you go. Okay, that's my memory lane.

What is this stuff anyway, Matthew.

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:02

Okay, so do we do we want to wade into what is chili? Let's try it. So chili is a stew made with dried chilies, usually or fresh chilies sometimes or sometimes both. that originated in northern Mexico and southern Texas back in the 80s and 90s. When I was like learning about food most of what you would read about chili was was from written by like gatekeeping white men who were involved in the chili Cook Off circuit that sounds right in retrospect was a very narrow and largely inaccurate view of what chili is because you know, not surprisingly, the actual dish originated among working class Mexican and Tiana home cooks. And we'll link to a great NPR kitchen sisters story about the chili queens and their role in the Origin The origins of Chile's popularity and how like most of what we know about Chili today outside of Texas in northern Mexico comes from San Antonio tourism in like the early 20th century.

Unknown Speaker 21:58


Unknown Speaker 21:59

I want to listen to this. Yeah, it's good.

Molly 22:01

Very cool. So we're talking here about like, you know, Chili that is sort of like a deep brick red in color. We're not talking about white chicken chili or like various variations here.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:12

Yeah, although like Like I said, like I have no certainly have no problem with someone calling white chicken chili chili and it's very tasty.

Molly 22:20

So in general, would you say that that like what defines chili in this case is some sort of protein and ate like chili pepper in some some Yeah, like, especially

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:31

for the brick red one. Like it's got it's got to be like a ground dried chili. So like, involving, like, chili powder, or like, if you if you want to really go all in like I sometimes do, like toasted and ground dried chilies like anco chilies ye o chilies, New Mexico. chilies. Yes. Okay, or a mixture thereof.

Molly 22:49

Okay, so Matthew, how do you make chili today? I mean, you've mentioned it just a little bit toasting and grinding your own stuff. Tell me more.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:57

There's a lot of toasting and grinding

Molly 22:59

that there's so much toasting and grass in your world and crackling coldness. Yes.

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:03

Oh yeah, I like it. I liked it. I like to call ever ever ever needs a little crackling cold grind in their life when you say free just just like 3032 and below or I won't go okay. So I think that chili that recipe that I made like it was two sources that came together. One was a recipe from years ago from cooks illustrated. And then one was a recipe that some local chef and I don't remember which one contributed to a chili cook off that was held at Union restaurant many many years ago in Seattle. And chili is more of like like an idea than a recipe you know, obviously there are millions and millions of chili recipes but like like he said like if there's if it's like a thick stew with lots of dried chili flavor and some kind of protein that's that's what it is. And so when I usually when I make chili and actually teenager the show December made this kind of chili the other day because they've been making dinner on Thursdays. Oh really? Yeah, when I have my voice lesson it's great. That's

Molly 24:12

so great.

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:13

So some, some cubed beef Chuck a lot of onions, garlic, several types of toasted ground chilies i think i think we just used on show in New Mexico. A little bit of fresh green chili and water and you toss that in the instant pot or the oven or the stove top and you cook it till the meat is tender and you have jelly i like i like mine like really thick and intense. But like you know if you wanted if you wanted to dilute it from there, what you know that's fine too.

Molly 24:44

what creates the thickness,

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:46

what creates the thickness. Couple things. The ground chili like the chili powder itself has some thickening ability. There's there's like emulsified fat If you're using meat, and then sometimes a popular thing to do and very tasty thing to do is to make your chili like not not super reduced, but then make a slurry of masa harina and stir that in at the end and that'll thicken it up nicely. And Linda nice, like cornmeal flavor. Oh, okay. I often do that too

Molly 25:18

nice. I think we might actually get to see each other in person one day soon, because now that we're both vaccinated, I'm two plus weeks out.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:29


Molly 25:30

you're gonna be there soon.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:31

Yeah, I'll be there. But

Molly 25:32

I would love it if you would maybe make chili for me.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:35

Yeah, I would love to.

Molly 25:36

I would like it. I really miss your cooking.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:39

Yeah, I miss. I miss you coming over and eating and saying nice things about like, Okay. At times. You bring some good stuff, too.

Molly 25:46

Sometimes. Yeah. I can't even remember what I would bring.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:50

I don't I don't remember either. It was a very long time ago.

Molly 25:53

Okay, anyway,

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:54

I was back in the days of good times and great oldies.

Molly 25:56

Yes, exactly. I have never made chili. Actually, wait a minute. I think actually, I think I have made your chili once because you put it in the packet of recipes you gave me for my 40th birthday. Oh, yeah. And it was really good. I think that it's the kind of thing where so I have this real problem. When I cook things that have meat in them or that are like long cooking that I just don't enjoy them as much by the time I'm done with the process of cooking them.

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:27

Yeah, I don't suffer from this myself very often. But I know what you mean. And like, I think it's a common thing that has a lot to do with the sense of smell.

Molly 26:35

I think so too. I think it's like a real sensory saturation thing. Yeah. Like, I can be like, Oh, this chili smells incredible. And

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:42

by the time you deserve it, you feel like oh, like, my brain thinks I kind of already ate it. And I'm tired of it.

Molly 26:48

Yeah. Right. So I remember really enjoying the chili, but not to the degree that I would have if you'd served it to me.

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:55

Yeah. And I think partly for that reason, like when people say like, you know, you should make your stew a day ahead. So the flavors meld? Yes, I think really what they're talking about less than something actually, that actually happens in the stew itself is just like you get to reset your like olfactory system, and like enjoy this without having been smelling it for hours

Molly 27:16

beforehand. I think there's something to it. I mean, yeah, both. And I think there's something to that, how chilly

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:21

chat just like generated or a testable hypothesis.

Molly 27:25

Wow. Ash really loves chili. Like, I never tend to think of chili ash thinks of chili. And ash has made it a couple times, using recipes that they have found and chosen online. One of them was like a very simple, you know, basically like ground beef on yen can't be in situation in the instant pot. And it used the liquid from the beans, which I know is always a really, some people are super skeeved out by being juice.

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:56

Oh, you know, I like it. Put it in cowboy beans.

Molly 27:59

This chili was fascinating in that it,

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:02

it was like that's how you want a dish to be described. It was fascinating.

Molly 28:07

It had not only the bean liquid but also like additional water or broth. And it was so liquidy we were like there is something wrong here. So we cooked it down a little bit more and then also after it had set like overnight it was it was the can do better. I don't even know where they found the recipe. But I have to say that I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that even like so. So chili is pretty darn good chill. Absolutely.

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:34

Like I said, I still you know heat up a can of chili for lunch like once a week or so. And like, is it great chili? No, but is it perfectly satisfying every time? Yeah, absolutely.

Molly 28:45

Yeah. So yeah, we don't tend to make chili a lot when we do ash usually does it and what I do love about this recipe that they have found is that it makes a shit ton. And it is a real thrill to be able to like toss some chili into the freezer.

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:02

Yes. Oh absolutely. I know what you mean.

Molly 29:04

So what do you what do you top your chili with?

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:06

Oh, I was gonna say also I do make that style of chili also with like ground beef canned beans. I don't usually use the bean liquid but yeah, and commercial chili powder. I think pins Yes, chili powder is really good and worth ordering. And like penzeys like seems seems to be a good company. Like, I don't ever want to like get to onboard with a particular company because you never know what's gonna come out tomorrow but like, right wingers are always posting mean things about the guy from penzeys because he's outspokenly liberal.

Molly 29:36

I love people who just like say good things.

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:40

I know me too. So. Oh, toppings. Let's Let's top off this chili chat with some topping talk.

Unknown Speaker 29:46

Oh my god.

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:49

For free does. So maybe as a topping or like what what's Uh, what's the opposite of a topic? Okay, I knew you're gonna say that. Yeah. So Like I will I will like pour chili on top of Fritos any time and tortilla chips also very good. Either crumbled on top or served on the bottom. cheddar jack cheese squeeze of lime. I will always put on hot sauce if the chili is not already fairly spicy cilantro, and I will offer a love having like a corn muffin or corn biscuit on the side.

Molly 30:23

Yes, or corn bread or corn bread. Yeah. Matthew, I noticed you didn't mention sour cream and in my household not a sour cream fan. Well, I hate sour cream. Oh, I mean, I really really dislike sour cream. And I think that I learned exactly how much I dislike sour cream on our sour cream episode when we actually have to like taste it. It's I mean, you're not

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:45

I was gonna say you're not supposed to eat it directly from the carton. Like

Molly 30:49

if you if you like sour Yeah, yeah, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:51

don't want to yuck someone's Yeah.

Molly 30:54

Okay, I'm married to someone who loves sour cream. Crazy for

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:59

who is who is that? Ah, I

Molly 31:01

forgot their name. Anyway, I also strangely gave birth to someone who really likes sour cream

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:08

again still tells try to figure out who that is.

Molly 31:10

Yeah, and it's a different person from my spouse. Okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:13

that's good. You know, if you think about it, like, we all give birth to ourselves in a way

Molly 31:18

that's true. And and in relationship we give birth to new selves.

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:23

Leah. With like a new a new, like a fusing of selves.

Molly 31:29

Yes. That is what marriage was the listener

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:31

can see this hand gesture.

Molly 31:34

It looks like you're about to do here's the church and here's the steeple. Open the doors and see all the people that There you go. That's the fusing of selves. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. So yeah, I do like a little dollop of sour cream in my chili. But I have to like either only take the tiniest little bit on the spoon. So that I'm like, not super aware of the sour creamy flavor of the sour cream. Or I stir it in. I so I do like sour cream on chili. But I don't like sour cream.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:07

Yeah, I understand.

Molly 32:08

My child puts so much sour cream in her chili. It like turns it tan like it's disc gusting. Yeah. My spouse really likes sour cream and cheddar, which I agree with.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:24

I can get down on that my favorite flavor of ruffles.

Unknown Speaker 32:27

Oh, yeah, me too.

Molly 32:29

Took me a minute. Anyway, you know, I think it's never a bad idea to have a little pile of shredded iceberg just to kind of put on top. Oh, that sounds really good. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:39

love that with enchiladas. I have never thought of doing it with chili but it sounds great.

Molly 32:43

Yeah, I mean, I think there's no reason not to like you know it you get that little flavor and crunch and I love it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:51

Yeah, sounds good.

Molly 32:52

That's all I've got for chili chat.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:54

What about things that you put chili on like do you do like like a big potato with chili or a chili dog or a chili burger? Or Cincinnati Chili's who we talked about that

Molly 33:06

I've never had I haven't either but I have been to Cincinnati driven past various scoreline diners there are multiple right? Yeah. I've seen cans of skyline diner chili. There's Mike's chili here in not too far from my neighborhood. And Seattle. Mike's chili parlor. People love to talk about that if

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:26

you've ever been there. I have been there. Yes. Just once. I think it was pretty good.

Molly 33:30

Okay, maybe we should meet up for some outdoor chili.

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:33

Yeah, absolutely. in Cincinnati.

Molly 33:35

Yeah. Let's go to Cincinnati.

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:38

That would be a good place for for a spilled milk.

Molly 33:41

A great place because there's chili, there's graters ice cream. Oh, yes. Also Jenny's ice cream, which I think originated in Columbus, maybe but it's Ohio. Oh, yeah. Let's go to Cincinnati. Okay, well, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:55

think we have a couple things. A couple places on the list that we need to do first. Okay, but we can we can discuss this with producer Abby. Okay, maybe the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce will get in touch. Yeah, we're not this is not something we're doing soon.

Molly 34:08

Correct. But you know, someday I aspire to go to an abbey. But yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:15

so like your your wrapping there for a second.

Molly 34:17

I don't tend to think about putting chili on things. I mean, I know I did that with the Maggi like seasoning packet chili as a teenager but I haven't been thinking about that when I've had chili recent for me like I like the idea of a chili dog but it's just like too much for me. Like where for where I am in life right

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:36


Molly 34:37

I don't think that I don't think I even like the idea of it very much. I don't think I I just don't think it appeals to me. Yeah, I think I'd rather have God I do love. I love a hot dog with sauerkraut.

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:50

Yeah, have you had the the Trader Joe's sauerkraut with the little pickle slices cucumber pickle slices in it. No, it's so good. Really? Yeah. I just

Molly 35:00

went to Trader Joe's the other day for the first time since the pandemic started. Oh, wow. And I like luxuriated. I took my time I went down every aisle sometimes twice. It was decadent.

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:15

Yeah. Okay, well, next time like gild the lily with some sauerkraut in a jar.

Molly 35:19

Okay. Do they keep it in the refrigerated section? Okay. All right. Okay, Matthew, anything. Oh, well, what about do people ever put sauerkraut on chili?

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:27

I don't know. I've never heard of that. Like, do you think it would be good? I'm not sure.

Unknown Speaker 35:31

I don't know why not?

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:33

The only thing I'm not I'm not sure about is like the texture, the texture contrast?

Molly 35:38

Maybe maybe the sauerkraut soul stringy. Which is kind of weird.

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:42

Yeah, but but I mean, probably. We should try it. I guess it's good to have something like tart and pickled with your chili.

Molly 35:48

I think my god I thought you said tart as in like tarde? t a r r Ed.

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:56

It's good to have something tarred and feathered with your chili. Yes.

Molly 36:00

Okay. All right, Matthew. Um, so let's let's wrap up this chili chat and hop on some segments.

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:08

Let's do it. Let's hop hop on the segment train. Let's begin with spilled mail.

First off, we had three listeners from Albany and and Albany's I wrote this word and I don't know how to pronounce it. Okay, to let us know that yes, mozzarella sticks with raspberry sauce aka Melba sauce is absolutely real

Molly 36:33

God I think you listeners from Alberni I want to try Albany, Albany Albany. Oh, ball Binney,

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:41

I think by Rennes Elvira mistress of the dark.

Molly 36:48

Okay, thank you. Albany. Listen. Yeah, thank you, Anthony.

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:53

And then we got a very important question from listener unit, who asks, I've been watching a lot of Marvel movies to procrastinate writing my dissertation and was wondering which condiment do you think would be the most terrifying if it came alive? And what would its villainous name be?

Molly 37:08

Matthew It seems to me that all condiments are already villainous in your world. And not all just just many of the most popular ones. So would Manet's be the like the biggest villain for you?

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:20

I think so. So I think like the idea of like, like Mayo, like coming alive and like kind of enveloping me. Like is kind of the worst thing I can think of and it would be called something like the white wave or the white peril which, which has like a real like racial element to it that I don't know how I feel about it, but like seems seems like legit, but not not to associate it with mayo. That that's the part that I'm uncomfortable with.

Molly 37:50

Oh, so you don't want to malign Manny's I mean, at the end of all of this

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:54

at the end of all of this where I said that mayonnaise is like the world's Most fearsome villain and I have nightmares about having to go one on one against sentient mayo. I don't want them allied at rock to get by.

Molly 38:06

God, I'm so glad that we clarified how you feel about mayo. I crystal clear now.

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:10

How about you?

Molly 38:11

You know, what are some other condiments? ketchup and mustard?

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:15

Yeah, the another one I think about was relish because the idea of like a relish monster with like little perfectly cubic chunks of pickle relish. Like falling off it like a Swamp Thing. God sounds pretty good.

Molly 38:26

And I need to be like sweet relish?

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:28

Oh, yes, absolutely.

Molly 38:30

How about sweet relish?

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:31

I know your pick.

Molly 38:33

I think sweet relish would be my pick. Because there's also something that's like really kind of two faced about it. You know? Like, like, it's

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:41

Yes. Like,

Molly 38:42

you think it's gonna be like tart and sour? And then it's like really sweet. Okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:49

yeah, yeah, I see what you mean. Just like a villain

Molly 38:52

just like a villain. Well, Wasn't there a villain called to face in one of the Batman movies or something?

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:57

Yeah, you're right. So yeah, we should specify like, how many Marvel movies have you seen that you're basing this this villainy on zero? Okay, I've seen one and a half.

Molly 39:05

Okay. Oh my god. Yeah, so I'm gonna go with sweet sweet relish. Thanks, Matthew. Is

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:12

that also the name of your villain? Or would it have a different name?

Molly 39:14

I think the name would be

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:16

there's a lot there's a lot of green villains like the Green Goblin. And I think there's another one. That's the only one I can think of the green some other green villain I'm sure of it. All of our listeners are screaming at right now. Okay, well, this is I think the Green Goblin is a spider man villain. Not a marvel.

Molly 39:34

I think that this wraps up our spilled male segment.

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:37

Okay, great.

Molly 39:37


Matthew Amster-Burton 39:38

There's a good thing like the things I just said pretty much erased. The thing you said earlier about Joni Mitchell and now people are just gonna write in with Marvel stuff. If you want to get in touch contact at spilled milk. podcast.com.

Molly 39:50

Matthew, are there any cute animals I should know about?

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:58

The cute animal this week is cats. Oh, it's surprising This is a video this is a YouTube channel that I subscribed to called impressed cat video and it's a guy who lives in I think in the Fukuoka Japan area and just kind of walks around with his GoPro and pet stray cats.

Molly 40:15

Is this the guy who also saw the cat in the restaurant?

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:18

No that was in Thailand, but I was thinking about that also.

Molly 40:21

Okay, well hold on. Oh my god, hold on YouTube is making so much noise. Figure out how to turn off the sound on my computer. Okay, all right, I'm looking at this. Okay, this video Matthew is called if you sit on the Cat Island you will be surrounded by cats in no time.

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:36

Yeah, that's true. Is this

Molly 40:37

is this where you want to go? Like when you die? Do you want to go to the Cat Island?

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:42

Yes, I do. I want to cross the Rainbow Bridge and you know spend eternity on the Cat Island where you're just like cats come and person on your lap and purr aggressively

Molly 40:52

you know this is like the the also

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:54

there's Japanese food.

Molly 40:56

This is like a kind of like cleaner, nicer version of the the dumpster with ash and I would hang out with cats. Oh yeah. In Greece. Yeah. between our hotel and this place where we would walk to have dinner most nights. There were a few dumpsters. And there were always a lot of cats around the dumpsters and the cats if you stopped and started you know, appealing to them. They would come over to you like this, but they were all trash cats. Yeah, they were pretty rough. Whereas the cats look these cats

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:30

will Yadier pan has a real stray cat problem. And so I don't want to like, like glorify stray cats is that the phrase I want to use? like Greece also has a real cat problem but but like the cats that this person meets seem they look pretty healthy on average,

Molly 41:48

they look very healthy compared to the trash cats. I signed grease. This guy really like non soothing way of petting cats.

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:57

Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that because I feel like ever since I started watching these videos like it is it has changed my approach to petting cats that I meet on the street because I feel like he really gets what cats like

Molly 42:10

oh, yeah, he like moves their bodies too much when he pets them. I think they like is very non soothing. Like, like he pets them enough that they kind of like wobble under his hand.

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:23

And I like having a cat who like doesn't really like to be like stroked and will and will really like make her opinion known. I feel like this this type of like you know like I'm petting you but like I prepared to stop as soon as you tell me to stop type of like bump bump bump bump bump appeals to me. Like that's how I want to be petted I guess is why I'm saying okay, like on my on my lower back, just like like kind of like smack smack, smack smack.

Molly 42:47

If you showed the video to Lori. It's like a guide.

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:50

I should I should I should add some title cards to it like no, like here.

Molly 42:57

All right. So this week, it's my turn to do now. But Wow.

we've switched from both doing it every week to taking turns. Yeah, that

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:11

was that was more than we could keep up with.

Molly 43:12

Yeah, it was it was a lot of now but wowing and to be fair, like I just don't always have that much new stuff I'm into.

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:21

Yeah. And it was it was tough on the listeners who are required by law to to fully consume anything that we recommend.

Molly 43:28

Yeah, yeah. So it's my now but wow, and Matthew might now but wow is a person I think and I'm gonna wreck Okay, various aspects of their work. So I'm talking here about Hanif abdurraqib, who is a poet, essayist, I think maybe known to a lot of people like for his writing about music. I think he had a column for MTF for a long time, right. Anyway, he's also a cultural critic. He's written a lot for the Paris Review. I mean, he sound like all kinds of stuff, and recently has been quite prolific in terms of putting out books to poems and essay collections anyway, right. Hanif? abdurraqib. What made me go Okay, I'm finally gonna like really spend some time doing a deep dive into this guy's work, or a recent interview that he did on the podcast on being for me sort of that the gateway here was that on being episode was just the places that he went in his mind or so interesting. So, anyway, I'm doing my Hanif abdurraqib deep dive, and I'm really excited to check out his podcast which is called objective sound to okay talks about music so and I've got three of his books on request from the library.

Matthew Amster-Burton 44:38

I believe I read they can't tell us until they kill us. Yeah, it was great and has like one of the most memorable book covers

Molly 44:45

ever. It's like the wolf in like, like a like a like a rock. Yeah, tracksuit jacket and like chain necklace. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, I wish it hadn't taken me this long to get into his stuff, but I I'm really enjoying everything I'm reading and hearing from him. So excellent. Okay, so

Matthew Amster-Burton 45:04

let me let me know like what you read. Let me know like which podcast episode I should listen to. Okay, cool. That was chili chat. Tune in next week for more chili chat. It's just a show or two friends chat about chili. This we just this is this is our new show.

Molly 45:20

Oh, okay. All right. I'm Molly weissenberg.

Matthew Amster-Burton 45:24

Oh wait, no, we have other things to tell people though. Oh, I know. I know. It sounded it sounded exactly like I was wrapping things up. And that was the closing joke. And then I realized, wait a minute, okay. Our producer is Abby Cerquitella You can find us at Spielberg. podcast.com and on Reddit and reddit.com slash are slash everything spilled milk. Okay, I think that's everything.

Molly 45:42

Okay, good. Okay. So thank you for listening to spilled milk. The show where we chat about chili.

Unknown Speaker 45:49

I'm Matthew Amster-Burton. I'm Molly weissenberg.

Molly 46:00

Is that a wrapper?

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:04

I think you're thinking of duck baby.

Molly 46:06

There's so many babies and bunny.

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:09

Oh, yeah, there's there's bad baby. There's a we watch the snuggle bunny

Molly 46:15

we watched the Grammys and I was like, I felt the oldest I've ever felt because all I could think was like oh my god, there's so many babies and bunnies.

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:25

Yeah. Oh absolutely. Adorable. Right

Molly 46:28

was so cute. It was like a petting zoo.

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:31

No, like we're now way past the point where we're like we can have any opinion about or familiarity with today's music. I never thought this would happen to me quite honestly.

Molly 46:42

So hey, I just heard a god this is this is really embarrassing because I know that you told me about little NAS x with the the the big song from last year.

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:56

Yep. The big song from last year called Old Town road. Old Town road.

Molly 46:59

Yeah, okay. But I really did not understand that this was the same person who did like Montero Yes. And who like the whole world was lighting themselves on fire about lately.

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:14

Yeah, because like because because Satan gave it up to little NAS x Satan

Molly 47:17

gave it up to lil NAS x and then little NAS x kind of became Satan. Yeah. And then you know, that's kind of an

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:25

ego to Claus situation. And

Molly 47:28

nobody's ever heard about this. I'm the first person to

Unknown Speaker 47:31

talk about

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:32

bring us up to date on this video that everyone's talking about this week.

Molly 47:36

Yeah, anyway, um, but yeah, yeah. Have you heard of little NAS x?

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:42

Well, he's neither a baby nor a bunny. So no, okay. Neither neither baby nor bunny. Anyway,

Molly 47:53

I do want to say in all seriousness, though, I think he's amazing and I know I'm so yeah, I'm so late to the show here. Oh, my God. But Wow. Montero is incredible.

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:06

It's Yeah, it's really good.

Molly 48:07

It's Wow, okay. I should, I should like pay attention to stuff more