524: Day of Perfect Snacks
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:00
Hi I'm Matthew
and I'm Molly and
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:06
this is spilled milk the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have
it today we are discussing what this episode we're calling it day of perfect snacks. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:16
it was suggested by listener harried who called a day of perfect junk food but we reject the junk food real food dichotomy here. Oh, big time. At the same time. That sounded like a really fun idea. So we're making it the day of perfect snacks. I think we're going to spend most of the episode arguing about what is a snack?
I think you're right. I think you're right. So thank you listener, Harriet for making this argument possible. Well, let's hash out some ground rules. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:40
I love hashing out ground. Okay, let's go find the relationship. Okay.
Well, we're not married.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:46
Okay. That's that's a pretty strong definition right out the gate. No, but
ground rules. Okay, so a snack is not a meal. Okay, that's one thing. Okay. So we're not talking about breakfast lunch or dinner here. We're talking about meals that you eat in addition to
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:59
those Okay, a cookie is a sometimes food. I learned this from my friend Cookie Monster.
Oh. Is that like a song?
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:06
I think it's like, they they briefly tried to make cookie monster like an annoying guy who like teaches your kids lessons about nutrition and abandon that after a
week. That's terrible. Okay, so are we talking in general about sometimes foods?
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:20
No. I mean, maybe, I mean, like I do, I definitely have snacks every day. So I mean,
oh, I have snacks. Yeah, at least twice a day. Okay, so the ground rules. So here's what I'm going to say. Okay, so, we're not talking about breakfast, lunch or dinner. We're also not talking about just like ordinary snacks, like, what you eat when you're hungry between breakfast and lunch, we're talking about like the ideal. Okay. And so for me, I want to say that my snacks that I mentioned today are going to be somewhat globetrotting,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:51
oh my two for sure. And I just realized I put mine in a separate google doc so you wouldn't be spoil you didn't forgot to print it. So I'm gonna pull that up on my phone now. Okay.
So what I realized as I was thinking about this, and as I was kind of, in my mind traveling to all kinds of places to steal snacks from those places, is that snacks for me are very location dependent. And very situation dependent. Oh, yeah. So and like very time of day dependent.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:22
An example comes to mind yet we usually have cheddar goldfish around the house. And to me cheddar goldfish are like not one of my favorite snacks. I don't dislike them in any way. Yes. never reach for them. Yes. Right. Yes. And yet, there is a bar in downtown Seattle. I don't know if it still exists. I know. We've talked about this before, where like for three bucks, they'll sell you a bowl of goldfish to go with your tray. And that sounds perfect. It's and like the last time I was there, which was years ago. Like we went through like four bowls of $3. Goldfish like which cost the bar absolutely nothing. And we just loved it. Right? Yeah. Situation dependent. Yeah, I
think even more than like, you know, regular meals. Snacks are so situation dependent. Yeah. Okay, so I don't think those are like ground rules. But the we're positing a thesis.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:10
Yeah. So but but I think like not choosing like, like a basic snack. That's a ground rule for this. Right. Right. It's like we've talked about Cool Ranch and or nacho cheese Doritos enough on this show. I think
I did write jalapeno chips on my list. But the truth is because they are just so perfect. They are just so poor. But they are also an ordinary snack for me. So I don't I don't know. We'll get there. We'll get there.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:34
We should have we should remember one time we had a judge on a bonus episode. It
was France versus Japan. Right? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:40
think we maybe we should have like, gotten a live certified judge is that yeah,
certified? Yeah. It's like a notary but they come wearing robes,
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:49
but they also have a rubber stamp.
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I had a gavel. That's what I'm gonna start doing for a living so let me know everybody if you need a certified Judge, I am self certified. And I and I'll judge
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:01
Alright, so So basically your if you just need a judgy purse, a judgy person? Yeah, like, like Cookie Monster briefly was
exactly, exactly. Okay. So Matthew, you know, on the agenda here is dessert a snack? And I wrote No,
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:17
but is a dessert item that would like work perfectly as an after dinner dessert. Is that a snack if you eat it outside of mealtime? Like I made some pudding the other day? Because what the show Laurie had some dentistry done and needed to eat soft food for a couple of days. And I'm like, great. This is a great opportunity for me to eat pudding. And like I've been I haven't been eating that pudding like after dinner. I've been eating it at like 3pm Is that a snack?
That's a snack. Okay, that's a snack. But I think also so last night, my mom so my Mom hung out with her. Like, you know grandmother age friends, the Tonys. Yeah. I've met at least one of the Tonys, maybe two But now they're there to Tony's the third Tony has kind of fallen off a little bit. But anyway, so mom was hanging out with them and oh my god, these ladies know how to live. So one of them had made moussaka. Okay. Okay, that's great. He had moussaka for dinner. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:14
haven't had that. Oh my god, wait,
hold on backup. They had Nigro knees and potato chips. Sure then they had moussaka. I think they had a salad or something with it. And then for dessert, they had Paul Belen, which are poached pears drizzled with chocolate sauce. Wow. And with ice cream on the side and I hadn't even thought of that in like years. It feels like such a like 80s or 90s dessert to
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:36
meet you talk about on the pair episode. Mom was always poaching pairs and apparently never stopped
well last night. Yeah, Claudia, not one of the Tonys. But Claudia, maybe an honorary like presented some like plaque Bella wasn't even
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:51
your mom. It wasn't even. So maybe like every woman of that of that era is like just has like some poached pears in their arsenal. Yes.
Okay. Anyway, but it makes me think about like, what we think of as dessert now or what I think of as dessert now as opposed to like, what desserts with a capital D used to mean like in in cookbooks and things like the 80s and 90s. You know, it was all like elaborate multistep things like paw Belen,
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:20
yeah. And I would still be happy to either destroy that. I just don't want to make it. This is not the desert. This is not perfect.
All this to say what I'm trying to say is, it seems like I can't imagine having a poached pair with chocolate sauce and ice cream at 3pm and calling it a snack. Yeah, so that's like rough pudding is like pudding. Of course. Pudding can be a snack. Literally by putting snack. Yeah, but pudding is a really casual dessert. Pudding is a real good you like if you were making molten chocolate cakes, just on a regular basis, would you just make yourself one at three in the afternoon. But that's not a dessert snack.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:58
I mean, that's that's a pretty pretty bold counterfactual that you levied here. Wow. Those
are lots of big words
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:04
that, that I'm the kind of person who would just be in the habit of making chocolate cakes, just like daily.
Everybody is okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:12
But here is that person. You know, I think there's like a Trader Joe's molten chocolate cake. I haven't bought it a while there. Sure there is right. I would make that for a snack.
Interesting. I don't know if I would you Okay, well, it's a good thing. We're not actually talking about snacks in general. This is the perfect snack episode.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:29
Okay, so I want to ask you, how do you typically snack take me through a day and skip over all of the non snack parts of the day? Okay.
Okay. So in the morning, there needs to be some sort of like mid morning snack. Yes, I'm gonna get hungry by like 10am 11am at the latest and sometimes I will go ahead and eat lunch then. But I need a snack in the morning. Usually elevenses? Yeah, absolutely. So for me on a non perfect snack day, this is usually like a piece of fruit. Or like a little bit of cheese and some crackers.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:06
Yeah, as you know, like, I'll talk about mine also. But like I'm not I'm not really a reach for a piece of fruit kind of person. But we've been getting this app for CSA. And so I have to put on my to do list every day eat an apple. You do? Yes.
Oh my gosh. And then do you have like a little checkbox next to it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:23
Well, I write my list in my Japanese day planner. Okay. And yeah, then I check it off.
That's great. That's great. I do have to write some ordinary things on there. Like take the garbage out. Yeah. And stuff like that, but not usually eat an apple that I usually think to do. Okay, so 10 o'clock, 10 o'clock apple or something. Similarly, and I always cut up my apple. No, like just biting into it that I like biting into it. But I also like wedges. You know, also lately, a pair or an Asian pair is a great
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:53
ally. Yeah, I was getting some really good asian pears in the in the box.
Yeah. Okay. And so then let's talk about afternoon. So if I'm really on my game, and again, this is not a perfect day, but this is like a good snack day. The cupboards are newly replenished, let's say from the grocery store, and I have my pick up whatever I want. That's, that sounds nice. So at like three in the afternoon, or maybe two in the afternoon. Maybe I would make myself a mug of tea. And gosh, I might have a couple graham crackers and some dark chocolate. Ooh, yeah. Yeah, that is like so delicious. Sounds like deconstructed s'mores. Yes. And then Wait, can
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:34
I get the best hold the marshmallow
Hold on. Have we discussed my middle of the night snack? Surely we talked about this right?
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:41
I assume we have but like you asked me like, What is your middle of the night snack?
Like I don't know. So I have gone through periods in my life first, like obviously when I was breastfeeding, every breastfeeding person is hungry all the time. Yeah. But I when I was breastfeeding, I used to keep graham crackers on my bedside table and was Like chew them in in the night while dropping crumbs on my baby's head that I figured out it started cursing me out the way they like stick in your teeth to grant you a dastardly turn into like, mush. Yeah, mud. Anyway, so I switched to nuts. I decided that like sleeping the rest of the night with nuts in my teeth was probably somehow preferable to grandpa. Did you ask your dentist but I but I bear with it. So like so there was one night last week when we ate like a perfectly normal sized dinner. But for some reason, everyone in my family the next morning woke up and we all agreed that in the middle of the night, we were all starving, like, oh, I don't know what happened. But I was the only one that night who actually got up and did something about
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:48
it. So you don't still maintain a nut crock on your bedside table.
Not on my bedside table anymore, but I returned to my nut eating habit last week and yeah, I got up at 330 in the morning and stood in the kitchen and ate a handful of almonds. And the next morning I reported to my spouse that I had had my night almonds nice. And that night my spouse got hungry in the middle of the night and they got up and had some night almonds and they were like that worked really well. It sounds good. Just a handful of almonds was like enough to stop the hunger pangs I don't know why our weird human bodies are getting hungry at like three in the morning we're eating a totally normal dinner.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:27
Yeah, maybe like maybe like a gas leak
maybe it's maybe it's winter maybe our bodies are like turning into bears and we need to like we need to be eating more
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:37
even somehow like hot box in your house with weed smoke.
That would be fun.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:43
That's my only theory. Yeah, I do not midnight snack at all. The only time I ever been I'd snack is when I've recently gotten back from Japan and my tummy thinks it's dinner time. I love when you say tell me and I that hasn't happened since January 2020. So I yeah, I just don't
do you I know that you're somebody who struggles with insomnia. Do you get hungry in the middle of the night? Don't interesting I get annoyed if I lie there for for too long. I would say 75% of the time it will result in me getting distractingly hungry
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:15
that totally makes sense to me it just it's just not how I experienced the dark side of the planet.
Yeah, okay. So your day what's the day of like ordinary to good snacks
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:28
Okay, so I'll usually snack around 10 o'clock can around three o'clock okay. Certainly varies from day to day I don't like have like a note on my calendar to snack okay. My my most common go to snacks I would say are chips whichever chips are on top of the fridge, crackers, sometimes cheese and crackers especially if we have Trader Joe's unexpected chatter which is my favorite snacking cheese. Nuts especially roasted hazelnuts or good Deluxe mix nuts. Or peanuts if we got Peanuts, peanuts are great. And chocolate chips. Great. So yeah, so I guess I snack pretty well.
Yeah. Okay. And and so tell me about the chocolate chips. Oh, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:09
think Ghiradelli 60% chocolate chips are like one of the best snacks in the world. Okay, or just or dessert? Like I'll put some into a little cup after dinner.
Is there a beverage component?
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:21
I always have tea in the morning. Like when I get up like with breakfast and then I usually I usually have tea at a different time than then I snacks. I usually make my second pot of tea at like 1230 or one you know I just realized
that I didn't I didn't think to mention like my cooking snack.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:40
What does that mean? Well so is this a different crock that you keep by the stove?
Yeah, it's filled with bacon fat and snacks.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:51
So so slippery,
so when I am cooking as I discussed I believe in like the jalapeno chips episode or something. I really love to have some sort of special beverage whether it is you know an alcoholic nature or something like flavorful and non alcoholic short and a bowl of chips.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:16
I do love drinking beer while cooking but I only really do it like once a month maybe I when I am cooking I will only snack on something that's a component of the dish that I'm cooking interesting. For anything else 95% of the time wow I never think to do that but like Oh interesting. Like I'm especially thinking of like if there's a dish where I had to like crisp up some bacon and then I'm going to add it back in like a carbonara or something. I will definitely be reaching for little nuggets of that bacon. Okay, or like if I chopped him nuts like to eat peanuts, you know in a pod tie. I'll be like eating little pinches of chopped peanuts.
I also think I think that your family tends to eat earlier than my family. Yeah, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:57
we're early like for me, I'm sure I've mention this before, like when we when we move dinner from six to 630 to accommodate like works in school schedules. That was a big deal for me
really. I'm always aiming to have dinner on the table at 630. And often it's not on the table until seven or later even on like school nights with a kid.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:19
Yeah, like for me like I shoot for 630 like and if I don't have dinner done by 640 I feel like I fucked up. Oh, really?
I know. Like I I just cannot get it. Get it together.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:30
I do. I know. I don't need to hold myself to the standard. No one cares about me. But like, I don't know.
Wow. Well anyway, that this may explain why I tend to have like an actual like cooking snack because dinners later. Anyway, okay, but this is what I did. You
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:47
need to explain why why you want to have a snack. Well,
true. It's true. If I were Julia Child, God, you know, like, I love how old school cooking shows always talked about, like, you know, like the the treat for the cook. Oh, yeah. You know, like when you're roasting a chicken. And and the cook gets to have the
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:07
oyster. I was just gonna say I still don't 100% know what that is. But I know that the cook gets it.
I love finding the oysters when I roasted chicken, which I haven't done in ages. That oh my god, it's so satisfying.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:21
I bet. Do you think there's like some small percentage of our listeners who think that a chicken has like actual oysters?
I hope so. I hope so. So Matthew, okay, so we've kind of laid a foundation here against which we're going to contrast our day of perfect snack. Well, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:36
mean, I hope we were going to like build on that foundation.
Okay, okay, edifice. Oh, okay. Great. A temple to perfect snacks. Yeah, okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:45
I would visit there. I probably exists in some way. Like, you know, in Japan, they're like, they're like, especially shrines associated with like, you know, finding love or like getting over griefers they're
like, like a tuna Manny's only Gary shrine there could be because I'd go to that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:01
Okay. I mean, those are definitely for sale, like within a few feet of most trines. But
I in fact, I pretty sure I've eaten one on the ground. Yeah, shrine.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:11
Okay, so let's go back and forth picking snacks that would appear in our day of perfect snacks. I like I guess I went overboard, like, you know, just made a list of like more snacks that I would actually have in one day, but this is a special day. Okay, great. Great. Great. Go on. I feel like like, I don't want this to be just like a best of international snack boxes episode or like me picking only snacks from Japan, but there will be some of that. Okay, okay. Okay. Shall I go first? Yeah. Okay. Well, I pulled this up on my phone, so I'd be ready to go. And then I went to a different thing on my phone and I'm not ready to go.
I'm realizing I did not have mine organized by like time of day. I don't have mine organized at all. Okay, great. Okay, the first one on my list is Walters Mandler Oh, that's great. And Walters. Mandler definitely is a snack and not a dessert.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:58
Yeah, it's a chocolate bar. It's a big chocolate bar. So it's it's you can share it with your friends or family. And for those who don't know, it's a Norwegian chocolate bar. Right? Yeah. Norwegian. Yeah, pretty sure that is not easily available in the US, our friend of the show listener Judah uncensored to us. And it's a it's a salty roasted almonds, chocolate bar, milk chocolate bar. That is perfect in every
way. It is absolutely perfect in every way. Okay, the first one on my list is only Gary. Yeah, must come from a Combini or Japanese convenience store. And I really had a hard time deciding whether I would want it to be like the, like the grilled salmon onigiri or whether I wanted it to be I think what they call tuna mayonnaise. Yeah. And I went with tuna mayonnaise, and that actually, I do have a specific time of day for that is my elevenses.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:55
Yeah, that sounds perfect. I don't as you know that's not not my favorite odd but like, you know one of the other ones I'm right there with Okay, okay. Yeah, what a perfect
is yours come from a particular like chain of Combini like do you prefer Family Mart over Lawson or 11? Or
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:14
I think the the, the basic only giddy lineup at all of them is very good. For like the premium ones that are gonna have like a chunk of grilled salmon or something. I do like the Lawson ones, but I think it's mostly because I find the packaging very appealing. I haven't done like a taste test. Okay, they're all good. Okay. Oh, it's my turn. Yeah.
Next on your list.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:35
Next on my list. Taiwanese popcorn chicken.
Ah, do you have to be in Taiwan?
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:40
Not necessarily. I mean, this is something that is sold at Taiwanese restaurants outside of Taiwan, but I would prefer to be in Taiwan.
And so tell me how it differs from like popcorn chicken, or like just little bits of fried chicken.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:54
I mean is little bits of fried chicken. The main difference that I associated with the Taiwanese one is that it often has fun I herbs in it and usually five spice powder. Okay, like maybe in the in the marinade for the chicken so it has like an I'm not even like generally a big fan of five spice powder but it's just like so perfect in this preparation. Like you know I can really like taste it with my mind's mouth it is there a sauce? Not usually Yeah. And it's the kind of thing you'd like eat out of like a you know, a paper cone or like a paper ball. And like because it's popcorn chicken like popcorn chicken does not feel like a meal to be purely because of the format of the chip is like fried chicken. That's totally a meal. Like even chicken nuggets could be our chicken strips could be a veal but but it gets down to popcorn chicken size. Like that's a snack.
You know this okay, this totally makes sense to me. I'm thinking about like french fries versus a baked potato. Yeah, like potato granted usually put a whole bunch of crap on top that make it you know, yeah. Many layered meal size thing. Yeah, but I would ever but um, as T Yes. But I would never look at like a cone of French fries and be like, ooh, lunch. Like that is definitively a snack the same way that popcorn like popcorn chicken is to fried chicken, as French fries are to a baked potato. Is this working?
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:22
Maybe like they're I mean, I feel like fried chicken is like popcorn and chicken only bigger but a big potato isn't fried. But yeah, I see where you're going
with. Okay, okay. Okay, my next one is a beverage.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:36
Okay, it's yeah, we're
gonna need to argue about it. And it's the cafe Nico Versace.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:41
I don't think a beverage is a snack shot. I love the cafe Nico. Okay. But like, like if you said if you said to someone like, I'm going to I'm going to get a snack. Yeah, with a drink. Yeah, they might. They might want to check on you. No, I
agree. But also it's a great snack. Sometimes I sometimes a snack for me. Often a snack is because I'm hungry. But there are certain occasions where a snack is like, oh, that just sounds so good right now. So Cafe Nico is an espresso drink served in you know, the tiny little espresso cup. Yeah. And it's kind of like a macchiato. In that it has a little bit of milk, but or you know, frothed milk. But it has. I think what like orange peel a little bit of cinnamon stuff I would usually not want anywhere near my coffee. vanilla syrup. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:32
think I would usually laugh aloud. Yeah, no, it does not sound like my kind of drink either. But it is so good.
But what I'm trying to say is I don't want that as my morning coffee. Right? Then when else would I have it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:46
Maybe Maybe there is room for a new word. That is a drink that functions as a snack. And maybe we could call that adrak Now we can't because that's all already charged for Dracula.
Oh, what about a SnapBridge
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:01
Okay, now I think that's okay. No, I think I SnapBridge better.
I think we're gonna forget both of these by the time that but
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:13
both of these terms are gonna become very popular ones Okay, yeah, cuz no like a frappuccino is like a SnapBridge
it is it's never you're not gonna have that in place if your morning coffee. But you're also not going to have it like after dinner probably no and are you gonna have it so it's never it's never it's a classics never it's also a snake. It's both great
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:43
my next day a perfect snack item is this this would absolutely absolutely be at the top of my list. Okay, it's pondering. Oh, the donut from Mr. Donut in in Japan. And yes, it is. It's a donut. The dough is made with mochi so it's kind of like chewy and stretchy. And it is made of like eight balls of dough fuse together that can be pulled apart into into what look like little donut hole is what looked like little donut holes. It's the greatest feat of human engineering and hopefully
would you have the plane or the glazed glazed Okay, I think you know what I did not have the pondering on my my list but I'm going to put in there the Japanese sweet potato pondering Oh, seasonal. Yes, that
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:30
is very good.
That is really good. You know, like those those purple purple skin kind of white flesh potatoes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:36
Probably have it right now.
That flavor with the chewiness the fried Vnus Ooh, yeah. Okay. And you're so right. Like, I don't really want to pondering for breakfast.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:48
No, you know, I don't really enjoy having a doughnut for breakfast, but I love having a doughnut for snack. Yes.
Okay. Okay. All right. My next one is the heel of Have a very good baguette. Oh, that
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:01
is such a good pick.
Because, you know, again, like, you know, let's say you're in in France and you've got good bakeries all over the place. Just imagine that feeling of like walking home at the end of the day or whatever you stop and get your baguette maybe it's still a tiny bit warm and you break off the I think it's a Kenyan, I think is is the French word for the heel of it, I think
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:26
is that word only for the heel of bread. It doesn't feel in general,
I think. Wow. I think I'm not sure so isn't that a hairstyle? No. Okay, close in the right moment. With really good bread. It's hard to beat that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:41
Yeah, you know what sometimes I will have a piece of toast or half an English muffin for a snack. I
split an English muffin with my mom this weekend. We were like over at a cousin's house and we were both a little niggly. But is that the end of the story? Okay, no, but what I was gonna say is, I put a lot of butter on it. Yeah. And it was unsalted butter. So you would think it wouldn't be that great. It was so delicious. I mean, it was the kind of thing where like, I could feel a little butter dripping in my mouth. Like as it took bites. It was fantastic.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:11
Did you get like butter on your face? I mean, it's to me something. I
don't know. Nobody told me if I did, but I also had a napkin. Okay, well, I have something to say like, okay, great. Thanks. All right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:21
I already forgot what your pig does right the heel. Oh, no, it was they? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Go on. My next one. This is a real niche item that I don't know if it exists anymore. But I think I think like discontinued snacks are fair game for a day. Perfect snacks. Okay, the Korean hazelnut Snickers bar. So only available like made in Korea made in Korea and only available in in that region. I have had some hazelnuts. I had the American hazelnut stickers, which I think is okay. Okay. And I think I've even had like other regional hazelnut sneakers but the Korean is by far it's the real one that really tastes like they put a bunch of fucking Hazel that's in there. And wow, like, someone sent me some and it was like, you know, that was probably the best time of my life.
You know what maybe we have a listener in Korea who is really interested in sending us some
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:11
I have a co worker who lives in Seoul, maybe I yeah, I think
you should, maybe we could trade. So my next one is something that I really have only had a couple of times in my life. And this is the Italian specifically Pugliese cracker trolley. Oh, you familiar with
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:31
these with this on the list? And I don't know. I didn't know what it was.
Okay, so trolley are a type of cracker. I believe they are, you know, a regional specialty of Purulia Okay, they're the shape of a donut. Okay, they're small. They're maybe like silver dollar size a little bigger than an American Quarter.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:49
I do I think I know what you mean. I think I've seen these for sale at dealer Randy maybe? Yes.
Okay. Have seen them at dealer ante. There there is generally there's usually olive oil in the dough and and so they have this wonderful, flaky crunch to them. It's they're fantastic. And they come in either like plain flavors or fennel seed, or sometimes like black pepper. Anyway, it is a very, you know, normal thing in parts of Italy especially Purulia. Two at aperitivo time be presented with a little bowl of taralli along with your companion soda is the equivalent of our cheddar goldfish. Yes, exactly. Anyway, and I mean talk about like situation and location dependent. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:34
gotta be in pool Yeah, for this one. But yeah,
so Louisa Weiss, distant friend of the show. Okay. Louisa Weiss, food blogger behind The Wednesday show. Louisa why something happened? Well, no, she, she well, no, but like we've never we've never talked about her on the show have like, oh, yeah, we talked about. So friend of the show, Louisa Weiss, Louise. I got married in the Marquet region of Italy. Yeah, 10 years ago. Happy belated anniversary. I got to go to her wedding and my mom and I went to pool yeah afterwards and kind of had a little vacation together. That was I think that was like the last time the heel of Italy. Not quite.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:14
Which one's the heel?
Is it Basilicata? compania I think
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:21
pool yes the heel is Puli pinion of Italy good god I've
been there and yet I don't know we had this we had this
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:29
conversation recently and I didn't know what basilica was but I think pull yes the heel hold on.
I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:36
I let's see who can get there faster.
It's a race to the bottom. God you're right. It's the heel.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:41
Bang. God I never I've never been to Italy god I'm an idiot. I've even been there. Now. It's it's fine. Like I think probably it was 10 years ago. Yeah. And like, you know, if you ask, like, like the average American to like, like put names on like a map of the US they'd be like, I don't know. Like what's Idaho? Maybe it's the same in Italy. Yeah.
Yeah. Anyway, I distinctly remember sitting with my mom and having a Campari and soda and a bowl of taralli. And can you tell? I've been feeling nostalgic lately? Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:16
I think about the poem during every day multiple times,
I spend a lot of time indulging, like, I know people, like nostalgic, it's such a bad fucking rap. I spend a lot of time I allot myself a lot of time to travel in my mind to places I have not been to in a long time, and to hang out there and to really, really feel it like it's like a physical sensation. That's very healthy. I love it. I know it all the time.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:43
I think this Daljit is bad when you're like, you know, the 50s. That was a good that was the best time in America World War Two. Right, it fundraised generation. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I think like reminiscing about a thing that made you happy is not what people are talking about. Oh, okay. Okay.
I mean, I guess you're talking about making America great again.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:02
Yeah. If that's like, all you did was just like, lie around and think about your days in pool. Yeah, wherever that may be. I mean, sometimes I want to that's fair. So I think I maybe I have too many because I have like five more. I started
to short circuit a little bit. My nostalgia carried me away. Okay. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:19
here's what I'm going to attempt to do. I'm going to have my final pick be a segue into our next segment, which is our which is a new sec. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Yeah. So, one of mine is an O yaki from def forte, which is a, a little pancake shop outside of Nakano station in Tokyo. They have several flavors, so they these are ever been there. I don't know. Matthew, thank you there next time. We're gonna we'll go to Japan together again, right. Like yeah, it is a little savory. Well, no, it savory or sweet pancakes, but most, I guess, mostly sweet pancakes. And they are made in like a cast iron. Mold, like a griddle that has indentations so that pancakes have like a perfectly circular shape. And they're kind of thick, okay, and the the one to get is the classic red bean paste, okay, and is it filled, it is filled, it's a filled pancake. So they put in a little a little batter, they put in a dollop of red bean paste, and then they put some more batter on top, they flip it, it's cheap, and it's super hot, burn your tongue. So you have to like, you know, wait for it to cool little before you eat it. And it's one of the things in Japan that's totally acceptable to eat while walking down the street, which is generally frowned upon. And this was like a big breakthrough for me when I was trying to convince myself to like red bean paste, which I really found challenging, but it's a beloved ingredient in Japan. And I found one day like it was a cold day and I'm like, I want one of those red bean paste pancakes. And I got it and it was so hot, and it was so delicious. Wow,
that sounds fantastic. Do I remember Okay, so as you're leaving Nakano station walking toward the sun mall, is it on the right at the entrance of a mall next to the stand up so bowed on stand? Okay, I think I know where it is, like across the aisle from the Kastelic cake place.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:09
Yes, exactly. Okay. Yeah. I can't wait. Oh, yeah. All right. Okay. Um, and we'll go to bar Victoria. Um, okay, so do you do you have any other Pics or is that is that our day? I'm gonna
leave it there. Those are the ones that came to me first, and I really wanna I really want to keep it perfect.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:26
Yeah, I agree. Oh, wow. Thank you listener Harry. That was fun. Ah. Okay, so are you ready?
Do it again. Yeah. Oh, boy. I'm sorry.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:36
Are you ready for a new segment? I am. Okay. This segment is called playing catch up with Matthew.
I have a feeling I know what this segment is about.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:46
Joe, we recently did maybe even late anyway, recently did an OMO dice recipe with a special guest Bryan Washington and we talked about this Japanese fried rice omelet that is usually made with ketchup in the filling and very often served with a drizzle or even like a big dollop of ketchup on top. And I hate ketchup so much
but I remember you texting me after you made this because it has ketchup worked into the fried rice right? And I remember you saying like it was delicious. It was
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:19
delicious. But Brian's recipe for the you know the ketchup was like cooked into the fried rice so it doesn't it doesn't like read like ketchup. And then for the topping the the sauce has ketchup in it but it also has some other things in it that I do like Yeah, so I was able to pretend it wasn't there. Okay, but but I was saying like during that episode, like, my life would just be easier if I could accept catch up because it comes up. People love it. Like I have the problem here for sure. And so I'm like wait a minute, once I learned to to accept red bean paste. What if I could do the same thing for ketchup?
I have a question about red bean paste before we move on. So did you have you come to really like it or do you just tolerate it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:00
I would say I like in the in the scheme of like things that I might find it as a dessert failing, I would give it like a six. Okay, so like I'm never unless I go to that one pancake place I'm not going to choose it over chocolate or like, you know, vanilla pastry cream or something. Okay, so it's not it's not my favorite in the right context like it is the thing I'll order and now I am fine. Totally fine with it in any context. Got it, I will eat it. Okay, great. Perfect. Whereas like, literally, you know, if you serve me catch up, like, I need to, like figure out a way out of the situation. Like I might, I might flee.
Can I ask a couple more questions? Ketchup? Does it evoke like a like a disgust? Disgust? Yeah, for sure. So that's really different, though. From this red bean paste.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:48
Oh, I thought I found it pretty disgusting before I got to like it. Okay, like not, not to the same extent as ketchup. Because just because I hadn't been exposed to it as much maybe but like, it sounded, it sounded like very much not my thing. Okay. Okay. All right, Matthew. So what did you do? I don't have a good explanation for why I don't like hatchet but I was like, maybe I can become a person. Yes. Who lives in society rather than luck, Unabomber type. So I here's what I've done so far. So so my goal is like, by the end of this experiment, however long it may last to to feel like any time if I'm served catch up, I will be able to get through it and maybe even enjoy it. Okay. And so the first thing I did was I went down to little Woody's my favorite local burger place. Okay, and I ordered a burger with all things I like plus ketchup. So I just got cheddar cheese, grilled onions, add ketchup.
Okay. But this was a big commitment. Yeah, like a burger. On the one hand, I'm like, okay, a burger is a good idea, because there's so much flavor in the other components of it. Right? But also, like, you didn't get to control the amount of ketchup that went on. And it was like a full meal covered in ketchup, right? Because
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:02
I knew it. First of all, like, I didn't want to like squeeze a ketchup packet. I'm not ready for that. And also, I knew like if it was up to me, I would like you know, put it on like a tiny little segment of the burger. And like,
I'm fascinated by this because my, my spouse, as you may recall, has a real fruit aversion. Yeah, like they are fully like slick squeaked out by shirt, all fruit, all fruit. And I can put like lemon juice in a dish, and they will eat it. They can even see me do it and the end, they will eat it. They can now like cut up an apple or pear or whatever for June, but they are physically repulsed by fruit. And they would never do something like this. i And I'm not saying that as like a judgment against them. Like what you did is a very surprising thing.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:51
i Yeah, no, I'm surprised you so I got this burger. It was a rainy day in Seattle. I didn't have a plan for where I was gonna eat it. So I just ate it walking down the street. And I ate the whole burger.
So could you see the ketchup? Oh, yeah. Could you taste the ketchup? Yes, absolutely.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:06
Did you think the grilled onions like went a long way and that without it? It would have been much more challenging.
Okay, how did you feel about like feeling the ketchup like at the corners of your mouth?
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:18
So I had I definitely had very like like moments of revulsion. And then I was like, you know, this is a burger and this is like the topping, like probably the most popular burger topping. Like I can do this. And like I like the burger flavor. I like all the flavors like I can even be okay with the ketchup flavor I think and I you know, I finished the whole thing.
And would you do it again?
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:40
I'm gonna do it again. Like do I want to not really but I'm going to and I also I like I did phase two. I've had now had ketchup twice okay, because I made myself a snack of frozen french fries like the the shoestring fries, which are my favorite format of frozen french fries. I like like to over bake them a little bit. And I'm like, I'm gonna make myself a little bowl of fries. I'm gonna dip every fry and catch up and I did
and what did you think of fries and ketchup? Had you ever had it before you ever Wow What did you
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:07
think I feel like this there's something like analogous to this that like you know it's I know it sounds like I just arrived from another place
Yes. Your your Brendan Fraser in Encino Man. I'm Encino Man. How often we've I think we've referenced this movie at least twice. I've never seen it yet.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:25
And I'm scared of it to see it. Light like ketchup. Yeah, no, I would say it we should probably watch it. Yeah, I don't want to Okay go. Like I once I got in a rhythm with it. I liked it. I was a little afraid of getting too much ketchup on any one fry. But I did like it enough to taste and like ketchup is made from all things that I like. Yes. The reason I don't like ketchup at this point to this point is like inertia. I don't know why I originally didn't like it but then I got into my head that this is a scary thing that I need to like run away from and I'm tired of living my life that way. Wow, man. I don't know if I get to be able to move on. Like, I think I'm getting to a point where I can accept it, but maybe not like it, which is good enough. Okay, then do I move on to mustard or mayo? I don't know. I can't think about that.
Okay, okay. No, I'm so impressed with this. Thank you. Wow. Okay, when are you going to do you know the second burger?
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:19
Okay, so to be honest, I had some like leftover ground beef for making mapo tofu and I'm like, I'm gonna make myself a burger for breakfast and I'm gonna put ketchup on it. I love a burger for breakfast. I could not bring myself to put ketchup on it at like, 730 in the morning.
I cannot imagine eating a hamburger at 730 so great. It's it's,
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:36
I mean, it's like leftover pizza only only to burger.
I'm gonna come to your house at 730 in the morning and part of what I don't want just 730 in the morning, effectively is the lingering smell of cooked hamburger. That is 30
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:52
but like, I mean, just Are we live in a house of lingering smells like I feel like this could be like the name of like a really successful like dramatic like family daily saga novel.
We've never done an episode about like standing about like cooking smells. Because we also
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:10
believe the smell of things being cooked or literally trying to cook smells. No, but no, like, yeah, no, you're right, we should do an episode on cooking smells you live
in an apartment that you do have a fan over your stove. I don't think does anything you have wall to wall carpeting. And like not a tremendous amount of cross ventilation. Right? I live in a house with no exhaust hood, but much less carpeting. And I think maybe more ventilation. But even like I just said a minute ago that I haven't cooked a roasted chicken in ages well I stopped roasting chicken like whole chickens because I could not handle having my house smell like roasted chicken for three days.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:55
I think this is just something I don't care about. But I would like to do an episode on it.
My mother is someone who cares a lot about this. And I've always like hated how much she cares about it. And so I don't mind my house like fiddling with the smell of cooking onions or whatever. But there's something about the smell of animal fat lingering in my head
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:14
like like if I like fry fish that definitely lingers. I'm afraid of like actual bad smells like I found some moldy spaghetti sauce in the fridge that smelled real bad as it was going down to the garbage disposal and I was like, Oh no. How long is this smell gonna stick around? What if it's forever? I think I think it's gone
now. Interesting. I somehow feel like there's something that really grosses me out about the thought of like all these aerosolized animal fat particles Sure. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:41
You know what, what day it was when I found that that moldy spaghetti sauce what day it was Halloween. Oh, so spooky was this truly spookiest day Oh, that's so smoky. We gotta wrap this now but wow for you, Graham and then we're gonna get the hell out of here
my now but wow is not a new book. But the author does have a new book in translation coming out soon. And every book of hers to me is an event. It is the book I'm picking this time though is record of a night to brief by Hiromi Kawakami, who's best known book is called either strange weather in Tokyo or the briefcase depending on which translation you're reading. But this book, it's a short story collection. And the flagship of the collection is this novella called record of a night to brief that is pure stream of consciousness magical realism fantasy, which is not a genre that I typically go for but I will read any and all things Kawakami. And it is it's just like pure like sensory overload. It is so much fun. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. It's just like weird and beautiful.
Wow. Okay, fantastic. So that's record of a night to brief by Hiromi Kawakami. That's right, great.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:05
Our producer is Abby circuit tele you can rate and review her wherever you get your podcasts.
Abby jobs that you can chat with other spilled milk listeners at reddit.com/are/everything spilled milk. And is there anything we want people to chime in about to tell us?
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:23
You know, we could always use some listener mail contact, it's email@example.com If you got a question that we could answer on the show for you.
Yeah, for sure. You know, as always, thank you for listening to Spilt Milk,
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:34
the show that toasted by a couple of heels.
I'm heel number one and I'm healed
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:43
Maybe someday my body will get on schedule with our show but probably not.