527: Dipping Noodles

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:00

Hi I'm Matthew

Molly 0:05

and I'm Molly and

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:06

this is spilled belly. The show where I lift my hand way up in the air. And can

Molly 0:14

you doing a little stretch? Do you need to do the other side? Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:16

I think I need to the other side. Like a little twisty all day.

Molly 0:20

Morning stretches.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:23

Let's listeners, why don't you stretch along with us this? This will be like the like the radio exercise routine that people do in Japan. Oh, and which is appropriate because this episode is going to be heavy on Japanese food.

Molly 0:35

Yes, we are talking today about dipping noodles. Yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:39

And I think I said during a recent episode, we should do a dipping noodle episode, but I don't remember what that episode was or why

Molly 0:46

Yeah, me neither. Okay. Okay. I'm really glad to be doing this because I have heard about dipping noodles from you for a long time. I remember reading in your book, not one shrine, your book co authored with Yeah. I remember reading about sky. Amen. Oh, am I pronouncing that right?

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:03

skim it, skim in, skim it, skip it. It's hard. It's hard for me to say like in isolation.

Molly 1:10

Anyway, I remember reading about it. And just this morning, I've gotten to eat a bowl of dipping noodles. Yeah. So

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:18

where do we even begin? So I went on, I went on kind of a journey yesterday, because I like asked on Twitter, like, Is this only a Japanese thing? Let's let's start by like defining what we're talking about. Okay. All right. So this is going to be one of those episodes where I talk a lot and you should interrupt me a lot. Okay, otherwise it's going to be real dense. Okay. Dipping noodles is a way of serving noodles and broth or sauce where the noodles are served separately. And it you it is a dish that really focuses on the noodles and the noodle texture and you pick up some noodles with your chopsticks. You dip them into the sauce or broth and then slurp them up.

Molly 1:54

So I'm guessing that the the sauce or broth is going to be more like more concentrated and flavorful. And it would be in like a soup contact. Yes,

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:02


Molly 2:03

And I'm also wondering if this is something that is often eaten like in the warmer months of the year because the noodles at least as you serve them today were cold.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:13

Yeah, I mean, it's served year round in Japan certainly. But like I do, I do think of it as like something that is especially refreshing, especially like an Udaan or soba preparation. It's especially refreshing when it's hot out because like the noodles are usually cold. The dipping sauce is sometimes cold as well, especially when soba is involved. Okay, I made a hot dipping sauce today but it can go either way.

Molly 2:36

Okay, wait, are these a Japanese thing? Primarily do they show up in other cultural tradition?

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:43

Okay, so what I found was like I like racked my brain which makes like a real a real satisfying sound like like a quick kind of sound. And I was like can I think of like a dish where noodles are served this way outside of Japan? I couldn't so I asked and basically what people on the internet came up with was the the one example that really seems to fit where it's like focused on the noodles and you really dipping them into it and intense flavorful broth or sauce is Boon Cha Hanoi, which is aa Boon Cha Yeah, in northern Vietnam, where the noodles are served, like cold. And you pick them up and dip them into a sauce that usually has pork in it. And there's probably lettuce leaves involved also, okay, so yeah, that was really good, like people suggested. So one person we have a listener who runs lives in Istanbul and writes about Istanbul eats and said that like if you go to a weaker restaurant in Istanbul, you can get noodles as a side dish to go to go with various dishes, which seemed it seemed like went when noodles are like interchangeable with other things as a side dish. It maybe doesn't quite fit for me, but it's certainly close.

Molly 3:50

I don't know. I mean, I guess it depends on whether though the side noodles are being dipped. Yeah. Inherently dipping noodles. There has to be a dipping motion.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:59

Yeah, like if your arm isn't going up and down a lot. Yeah.

Molly 4:04

Then you should definitely be sure to stretch before

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:08

and one one wise guy named yet at Jake some noise on Twitter said

Molly 4:13

Oh, yeah. local, local Seattle based chef.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:16

Oh, okay, great when bad American Italian restaurants just put the sauce on top of the pasta instead of finishing it in the sauce.

Molly 4:22

Ah, yeah, that's that's a bad example of dipping noodles. I mean, that's an example of bad dipping noodles. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:28

exactly. So I think we can conclude that like the this type of dish has gotten like its greatest expression and diversity in Japan. Okay, well, so hold on. When did you learn something that I don't know about yet? In which please get in touch we need to do memory. Let's do memory lane.

Molly 4:45

Do you want to start a yes, I will start the first time I had dipping noodles was here at your table this morning. Okay, that's it. It is a Monday morning right now it's 9:52am I think I was probably eating them at like 932 Maybe, and they were delicious. I think that there was some sort of little pork pieces. Yep. And what seemed like scallions or was it Nagy no scallions and and onions. Okay. Dashi was your dosha going out soy sauce. Yeah, yep. And you used Udaan which had a delightful chew to it. Yeah, I love cold dude on it looks like you used the it should share a Kiku or Yeah, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:27

think it was Shiraki KU brand. Yes, that's the brand I usually use to when you get frozen frozen New Dawn which which I think is the best way to buy it for cooking at home. It comes in a very satisfying like perfectly rectangular block of pressed noodles. That then immediately comes apart when you put it in boiling water. It's delightful. Great.

Molly 5:46

Okay, so that was the first time I had dipping noodles and they were delicious.

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:50

Oh, good. I'm glad you enjoyed them. That was that was a recipe like I say develop the recipe. Like I think I probably started with just one cookbook recipe and then tweaked it a little bit. But I will I will share my recipe and in the show notes. It's super easy to make like I started cooking when you got here at like 905 and it was ready by 930

Molly 6:10

I think my entire family would love this. I'm very glad to know about it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:14

Yeah, like you can Yeah, it's something you can whip up any time like I do. I do like get the special slice support from watching Maya but if I didn't have it, it would be fine.

Molly 6:22

Tell me about your first time having dinner or your memory lane.

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:25

So I think the first time I had dipping noodles was at lark restaurant, which is not a Japanese restaurant, but a friend of the show. Sonoko Sakai author of Japanese home cooking and kind of a soba ambassador was doing a special soba dinner at lark which it was like soba served like a bunch of different ways. And I went with then three year old no like six year old of the show December who mostly mostly ate like crackers and the chocolate Madeleine's but that but tasted tasted all of the soba dishes there was like there was like a cold soba with Ooni I think there was like a soba gaki dish which is like so bad dough that's been cooked without being made into noodles. So really you're just focusing on like the chewy texture. But then there was a there was also a dipping noodle. I'm sure I made like a sauce all over my shirt which I still do every time I eat dipping noodles and and I was like this is interesting. And then I don't think I had it again until maybe the second or third time I went to Japan Okay, I think like it's something you can get at Hamato Don it is it's just a way it's a way of serving Udaan or soba especially but then also ramen which we'll get to in a minute. That's what Scammon is.

Molly 7:40

Okay, okay, so Matthew, know where to begin Should we go into Scammon?

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:48

Wrong Scammon is something that came along more recently like people have been eating Udaan and soba like this for a long time. So as far as I can tell, like I did my best like Japanese language Googling and kind of got stuck. But here's here's what I can say with some level of confidence. This style of serving noodles started with soba and soba started to be eaten in Japan during the Edo period aka the Tokugawa Shogunate. So from like 1600 to 1850 ish, I couldn't figure out for sure like, like what soba shops were like back then and how they differed from today but I am going to speculate that they are not that different than they were several 100 years ago, except that meat probably wouldn't have been on the menu back then. Okay, but there isn't a lot of meat at a at a soba place typically anyway, there might be like one like meat dish, or sometimes duck by the time of the Meiji Restoration in the mid 19th century, so soba shops would have been serving soba with hot broth in soup or as dipping noodles with a cold flavorful dipping sauce. Okay, and that would be called probably zato soba which the zato is like the bamboo mesh strainer. And so you get like a pile of noodles sitting on this bamboo tray. You then dip them in the sauce anyway.

Molly 9:03

Okay. It's wild to think okay, so that would have been like the mid 1800s. Right, right. I mean, I wonder like what the equivalent of like a soba shop would have been in the US at that time like that sort of like a Jack in the Box. Like, like that sort of category of like casual but carefully made food. I don't I don't know, like what would that have been like fish and chips? Ah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:31

like when I write a book about like the restaurant history of America but like, I have no like when I think of like the mid 19th century like I think of like, a shack where like people are like cooking on a wood stove. I just think of like the Civil War. It sure I don't think about food. Yeah, but I think they I think people did eat food in America. They probably did too during that century. Yeah.

Molly 9:56

Anyway, okay, well, maybe maybe we have a listener who will will Let us know if there was like, sort of, I don't know an equivalent in terms of like, what am I looking for? Like, like, easy to stop into shop where you could get Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:10

you're right there, there must have been right like to get some sort of restorative broth. Yeah, to get a restorative broth like, Yeah, we should do

Molly 10:20

broths you know what, I think that is synonymous with bone broth. Yeah, and I think that pretty much every wellness blogger has has beaten us to that bone broth, bone broth.

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:33

Sauce for like a dipping soba or Udaan is made with hdaci sakeI, mirin and soy sauce and usually garnished with scallions. And you can buy this sauce commercially like the sauce the same base sauce I just made, you can buy in a bottle at a watch or Maya or any grocery store in Japan. It's called min su u which, which just means like noodle dip, okay, and the bottle versions are pretty good. Because like, you know, there's no there's no reason those ingredients would like go bad in so does it sorry, it comes in a little carton, which is very satisfying. And like last year, I was ordering some comics from Japan and I discovered a series called mint to you he told him ishi which means like cooking for yourself with men to you and it is about like these two women who work in this office and they're sort of like friends sort of like frenemies one of them uses bottled men to you at every dish that she makes and the other one thinks this is this is just like unacceptable you know no human should eat this way with you know, processed foods and like so you obviously the woman who uses the men to you is the hero and like teaches the other woman how to chill out.

Molly 11:37

This is fantastic. I love it. Yeah, so

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:39

I realized I had not thought about this I read the first one and then I forgot but there are several more in the series. I think I'm gonna order the rest.

Molly 11:46

So Matthew When you served dipping noodles this morning, you served the noodles on a plate. Yeah. And the dipping broth in a bowl. Is this how it's traditionally served?

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:55

Yeah, I mean, the plate might be might be a bamboo tray, but other than that yeah, okay, that's it when soba SIR for dipping, it's it's usually on the bamboo mat and it's usually topped with some shreds of nori. Which is very nice. Interestingly, like I think of soba like, like there's kind of a thing like, especially in Tokyo, like soba is considered like a classic Tokyo food. And so there's like a long tradition and every soba shop wants to tell you like, you know, they were established in 1811 or whatever. Udaan is older than soba. Oh, okay. But you know, because it comes from western Japan. Like it's not as like culturally central I think because like Tokyo and Tokyo history and Tokyo stuff has long been such a focus in Japan. Okay. But making things with wheat goes back further than then making things wait. But like once Udaan became popular throughout Japan, which I think happened in the 20th century, like then especially casual like Udaan it's and soba shops tend to like offer both and you just choose like, you know, I'm going to get the the hot the hot broth. We'd like some fried tofu and I'll go Udaan on that one.

Molly 13:03

And this could be like the noodle stand that is across from Nakano station. Yes, exactly. Okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:08

which does not serve dipping noodles. I don't think because it would be too messy. But because it's like, you know, you stand like shoulder to shoulder with other people like slurping your noodles in the morning before work. We should go there

Molly 13:18

now. Someday. Okay, so So what about so the specific name for like dipping noodles with soba would be zato soba. Yeah, right. Yeah. Is there a specific name for Udaan?

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:34

It's Udaan. Okay, yeah.

Molly 13:35

Okay, so what about you mentioned ramen noodles?

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:38

Yeah. Okay. So this is one of those dishes that like everybody seems to agree on like, like the moment of its creation, like within a range of a few years. And like, whenever I hear that, like I get skeptical, like, you know that usually there isn't just like one genius who invented a dish that that everybody loves. But let's go let's go with the story and see, see who pushes back on it. So there was a chef named Cosmo Yamagishi possibly in 1955, or possibly in 1961. He was first working at a restaurant called Nakano Thai show Ken which is south of Nakano station okay so very near where we've stayed in Tokyo he then like for the rest of most of his career worked at the Higashi Ikebukuro branch of the same of the same restaurant Okay, so like so different different neighbors couple miles away, but still in in western Tokyo, and he was inspired by zato soba to like use like leftover ingredients from his ramen shop maybe first his staff meal according to some stories, maybe he like and then put it on the menu to like make a dipping noodle but using you know, ramen instead of soba or udon and ramen, like the differences like it is a wheat noodle like Udaan but it's thinner and has like a much chewier snappier texture because it's made with Then alkaline salt.

Molly 15:01

Okay, okay. And but this is a kind of a recently popular thing, right? Yes. It's not like an old,

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:09

right so so it goes back to the 60s or maybe 50s But then like exploded in popularity in the 2000s Oh, before that, like my impression is before that you would not say to your friends like let's go get scammed, man. Whereas like that would be incredibly normal thing to say today what's your price would be like what? Like they only serve that at like four places and I've never heard of it. What

Molly 15:31

does that word mean? I mean, like, did that word exist before there were ramen dipping noodles? That

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:36

is a really good question. So skaters to dip and men is noodles so it's just dip dip to noodles but so but that word was not as far as I know used as a generic term for like dipping so borrowed on okay, I don't know. Okay, at the time it got popular then of course, people started making different styles I think probably the most popular said that the one that that Yamagishi was making was was really based on like a show you ramen so so like maybe the the dip was like a little a little thicker than his show you ramen. But like, you know, record recognizably like like soy sauce forward and not like super thick. Okay, then what became popular was a thick style of scheme in made with like a tone call to like a pork broth, or sometimes a chicken broth, sometimes, sometimes with fish ingredients also, and cooked down until it is thick.

Molly 16:24

I mean with this be like, like peanut sauce thick?

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:27

Not quite, but verging in that direction. Wow, that must be so flavor. Yeah, so like I've had this in a few different places. There's one in Nakano that I really like that I made the name may jump into my head, there's a really popular chain called Docu Dinshaw there. And then there's a standalone place in Shinjuku that I've been to several times called foon G, which means like the wandering Samurai, and they like, in my opinion, really, like perfected this thick. So

Molly 16:53

what do they do? Okay, so

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:55

it is a chicken based soup that is that has been like cooked down. And then like they put some some like chunks of pork in there, you can get like a soft boiled egg optionally. And then the they do this cute thing, which I don't think they originated but you can see it at other places, but they put a square of naughty and then some powdered fish flakes. Just floating on there. Okay, which looks really cool. And then you mix all together, so that adds even like more umami. And then you get these really thick ramen noodles,

Molly 17:27

and you can like how sick like compared to not as thick

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:31

as the Udaan we just had so maybe like halfway between, like a typical ramen noodle and the Utomi just had to like, I don't know, like a quarter inch to a third of an inch, maybe

Molly 17:42

third of an inch. No way dude, you mean like an eighth of an inch?

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:47


Molly 17:48

a third of an inch is thicker than the Udaan we just had.

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:51

Okay, you're right, so maybe like maybe like a scant quarter of an inch there. There's a thick noodle Wow. Like I'm probably exaggerating the thickness as I do with a lot of things

Molly 18:02

are they you know how ramen ramen noodles generally have like a kinky texture to them.

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:08

Yeah, are they kinky or not kinky? I mean you can get scammed with with kinky which I think is called CI GD okay, but the the ones that the ones that foon G are not typically when they're really thick they're not kinky. Okay, so then you get these noodles cold The broth is hot. Okay, and it comes in like a dipping cup. You pick up and you can you can choose like what quantity of noodles you want at the price does not change because you get the same amount of dip but like maybe it but it's more than enough for like a medium serving of noodles don't get to that in a second okay, you get like choose like like oh my god which is like the big ass serving if you're really hungry because you're a college student or you get like a small one I usually get the regular and you pick up these cold noodles which have just a wonderful chewy texture and you dip them in the in the hot dipping sauce. And like at the beginning you're enjoying like the contrast between the hot and the cold noodles and then as you keep dipping the sauce of course cools down pretty quickly and so like you know some people I've heard like complain like now I've got this lukewarm sauce. I think it's great. I love like the whole journey

Molly 19:11

is so when you finished you still have sauce or like have you like cleaned out the bowl of salt

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:16

you have not cleaned out the bowl of sauce and then there is on sitting on the bar. There is what's called Wadi soup, which means like dilution soup, it sounds like you're saying watery soup. Yeah, but that's what it is like it's a very, very light dashi that you just pour and it's hot. It's in like, like a kind of thermos pitcher and you pour it into your leftover dip which would be too it's too intense to like slurp directly. So you dilute it and then you can drink it like a still very hearty broth. This is brilliant. Yeah, it is so good. It is not something I would try making it home I just like dream of going back to Fuji and getting some So Matthew,

Molly 20:06

do you mate? Well, obviously you make this at home and we just made some Yes. Do you pretty much always make the version that you made this morning? Pretty much? Yeah, cuz I really like it. So you mentioned you don't always have the particular pork that you use this morning. What was the pork you used?

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:22

So it's really it's like thin sliced pork belly for hotpot. That's unseasoned like you could use bacon, you'd probably want to like scale back on the soy sauce a little bit so it doesn't get too salty. Wait,

Molly 20:32

hold on, you get that just like QFC Oh, watch MAYA Oh, I was gonna say like, Gee, I was like, I cannot imagine going up to the butcher's counter at KFC and being like, I need thin sliced pork belly for hotpot. That would not I just know

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:45

I want to try it and see what happens they do No, I don't think they would be able to slice it that then they do they do sell fresh pork belly QFC

Molly 20:53

okay, but when you go to a gym if you they've got pork belly and you say you want it thin slice for hot

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:59

already packaged, thin slice, they have a section of hot pot oriented meats that are thin sliced, usually I think they freeze them and like you know, shave them thin. Okay, so it's really thin. I like that I cut it up into bites and and just saute it okay, and then toss in the onions and scallions and brown those a little bit and then throw in the soup base which which I've made like wow, this other stuff is cooking, just from dashi powder, water, soy sauce, mirin and sugar. Okay, and so good. And then And then yeah, like the whole thing comes together in less than half an hour and it is incredibly good.

Molly 21:32

I also noticed that while the the dipping sauce was flavorful enough to coat and season the noodles, it was not too flavorful for me to at least drink most of it. Yeah, absolutely.

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:45

This is not like a thick scheme in style sauce. This is one that that's you can slurp okay, you if you want to make this like the best you can make it with Udaan or soba, I will include the recipe in the show notes in your podcast player. The best way to buy Udaan and soba for cooking at home is frozen like that that is going to get you the best texture. But if you can't get that and you and you get can get dried food on that'll work great. When in fact the refrigerated, refrigerated go kind of work fine. Like I find I find that that what is often often like trending on the mushy side. But you know what, it's still gonna be good. You know, if you have some like other non Japanese noodles still, it'll still be fine.

Molly 22:26

I have a question for you about boiling Bhutan. So you know, as I mentioned, I buy the same package you buy and so I bring the water to a boil drop, let's say just one package. And let's say and at least take the plastic off or take the plastic off. Yeah, that would be step one. So like you I have an electric stove only I think my stove is even shittier than yours. Yours is a five burner

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:49

four burner for here with the fifth burner. Maybe in the middle. Maybe Yeah, maybe there should be a fifth burner in the middle.

Molly 22:57

Okay, I have a four burner as well. Mine has one fully functional burner, one that only works on medium high or lower, but never gets as hot as the first one. Then I have a second like smaller one that we're dealing with the beginning of a word problem. And anyway, I basically have two functional burners, one that is big and one that's small. Okay, but here's the thing, even though I feel like it works just fine. Totally fine. No, it's fine. It takes a long time for the water to come back to a boil after I drop in this block of frozen noodles. Oh, that's fine. And so I never know when to start the timer because because you don't want to cuckoo on very low. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:38

don't even think you need to use a timer. I think it's done once it's fully unraveled.

Molly 23:44

That's very fast.

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:45

Oh yeah. No, I think I think but have you ever

Molly 23:46

noticed that sometimes the middle is still like a little more. So you're quite here's

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:51

what I would do. I think we might have like a kitchen trick here. We should send into cooks Illustrated magazine. So they can draw do a little hand like pencil sketch a little hand sketch. Take it Do you have like a pasta server like with with fingers coming out of it? No. Okay, the closest thing I have is a spider. Okay, take something something pokey like a hair chop a pair of like cooking chopsticks. Okay, once you throw into the pot, start breaking it and breaking it up. Okay, like and just keep doing that until it's fully broken up and the water seems at least hot and then it'll be done.

Molly 24:22

What if I can still see at the center of the noodle, kind of an opaque

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:28

little bit and cook it a little longer. Okay, but it's not but it's like it's fully cooked the fruit. It's fully cooked and then frozen. So it's not there shouldn't be like a like an al dente, a pasta center in there. Like if it's heated through. It's done.

Molly 24:43

Okay, yeah, you're right. You're right. What I'm probably seeing is a little part of it. That's still not heated through.

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:48

Yeah, so definitely it definitely is worth your time to like break it up. Like I'm really glad we talked about Yeah, like as you're doing it, say break it up, break it up, break. Hey, break it up. Break it up. Like have you ever Have you ever like I've like gotten in between two kids fighting and like held out one one army in each direction like holding them back? No, me neither. But I want to so bad. I would get punched so much.

Molly 25:10

You know, it occurs to me. I need a pair of cooking chopsticks.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:13

Okay. Yeah, I use mine that often. But if I if I find some in my house, I'll get

Molly 25:19

oh man, I think I would definitely use them. Because I don't really show that he said one of those pasta things that you were describing. I don't want that.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:27

Okay. What's wrong with my pasta?

Molly 25:31

I don't know why I would use it. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:32

don't want it. I mean, you could use it to break up a nude on fire. But that's all I would use it for. I don't I mean,

Molly 25:39

I use my tongs. tongs to break

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:42

up a new dawn.

Molly 25:43

I could use tongs to break up a new dawn fight but I want I want cooking chopsticks. Okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:47

because I'm glad you said that. Because when you said that my thought process was oh, I could get you some for Christmas, which has come it's still coming up at the time. We're recording this it's getting fluid. By the time you're listening to this the goose is getting fat. And that reminded me that I have a present for you that's in the fridge that I'll give it to you after this. Okay. Okay.

Molly 26:05

I think we're done. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:07

I think I think we're done so yeah, so for like recipe ideas definitely go to just one cookbook, but I will also include my recipe in the show notes will link to to Sunoco sockeyes. Book and website like go it's not specifically dipping noodle related, but but she certainly makes great dipping noodles with her homemade soba. Mm hmm. And her book is great. And now let's move on to segments.

Molly 26:29

Man we've got spilled mail today from listener Colton and this one is directed to me should

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:35

you want to read it? No you okay

listener Colton writes, I tried one of Molly's old standby recipes yesterday catchy Pepe. It was delicious. And the lunch leftovers today were just as good. But I have one question. How does Molly get the fossilized cheese out of this glass bowl afterwards? It was like a practical joke I played on myself. I haven't scrubbed a dish that hard in years and I had to throw the sponge away afterwards.

Molly 27:03

Listener Colton. I absolutely know this fossilized cheese problem. One thing I want to say is the recipe that you have used which is on my old blog or engine is ancient. I think I got it out of Gourmet magazine. Like yeah, I remember making it in the apartment I lived in from 2002 to 2006 Like okay, yeah, okay. I do not use that recipe anymore. I don't think it is the best one. I'm glad that you liked it. However, I it is very difficult to clean fossilized cheese out of a bowl. Yeah, I don't think that's the best way to go. The recipe I use now is from the cookbook repertoire by Jessica Bhatt. Elana I think it's fantastic. It results in fossilized cheese in a skillet or saute pan. Is that better? Okay, so what is better about it is that So assuming that you're not using a nonstick pan right? You could use

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:59

if you're using a nonstick pan, you probably wouldn't have this problem maybe

Molly 28:04

but you can use a bench scraper. So oh, I have like a stainless like 12 inch saute pan. And what I do is after we have served the cat toy pet pay, I put a little bit of just a small amount of like hot water like just water out of the kettle in the bottom of the skillet and let it sit there like while we're eating dinner and then I pour the water off it the cheese stays behind believe me and then I take just my bench scraper and scrape all the cheese out and scrape it directly into the compost this this episode is rife with with kitchen tips. So I even have just like one of those metal bench scrapers. I don't even have one of the like plastic dough scrapers that you can use in a bowl. I imagine that the plastic dough scraper would be a bit more friendly on a variety of surfaces. But anyway basically the idea is you want to soften up the cheese with a little bit of hot water pour off that hot water and then scrape out that gooey cheese and then wash the the

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:07

okay this is this is really help I wish I had asked this question but I get the benefit Thank you listener Colton because i There are a couple of pasta recipes that are that are like my favorites not that I dislike your car to a pet pay recipe but like I make what we call pasta Bible pasta which is pasta with like gas scallions and and Parmigiano Reggiano and lots of butter and parsley ended in an egg yolk which makes it extra sticky. And I love that I love Salerno style spaghetti both of those make a cheesy crust onto the onto the pot to the extent that after dinner I'm like okay, this is my new job now is is like for the rest of my career. I'm just gonna be trying to get the cheese off of this pot so I've never been scraped it or or dough scraped it.

Molly 29:54

Use your best judgment when it comes to the surface of the pot and which tool you're going to use but yeah, I mean I use a like a stainless bench scraper on a stainless pot.

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:04

That's great a horrifying noise

Molly 30:07

no it actually doesn't it actually doesn't there inevitably are like little corners that you can't get into. But the truth is you've gotten enough of it and what's left behind is still quite soft. Okay? Because yeah, I do not like to get all that crusty cheese on the sponge. Oh, that's the word you do still get some crusty cheese on the sponge but not enough to have to throw it away. Okay, yeah, this is great. So there's there's my tip for you. Listener Colton. Thank you so much for writing into ask and yeah try the catch away pep eight from repertoire

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:37

can we tag this this episode like you know some sweet Italian episode not say for June let's tag this one MA You may be actually useful

Molly 30:46

oh maybe actually useful. Okay. Matthew Do you have a now but wow for us? Yes

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:51

I do

Am I now but wow is a book it's it's a why a book called I'll be the one by Lila Lee. And I feel like this is the third why a book I've read recently that involves either Kpop or Japanese idols. I think we can call this a trend or a mini genre and I approve. In this one the main character is star Shin who gets onto a reality show competition to become the next KPop star. So which is super fun so you've got like, like built in conflict and tension and she has to navigate fatphobia family relationships and first love along the way I really enjoyed this book. I think it's probably my favorite of the Kpop or Japanese idol related books that I've read recently but I love the law neither one of them I did another one as of now but wow, it was it was the one by it's just not coming to me. Okay, but you know what, it's it's out there it's out. So this one anyway, this one is I'll be the one by Lila Lee highly recommended.

Molly 31:51

Fantastic. Well, our producer as always is Abbey circuit tele, please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. And you can also chat with other spilled milk listeners on our subreddit that is at h sorry, I'm not going to give the whole age

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:07

no it's H TT p s colon

Molly 32:15

slash slash reddit.com/are/everything spilled milk.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:17

Alright, so yeah, so let's let's read that URL again. Sorry, First, open up open a new tab and your Internet browser could be Chrome Firefox maybe maybe brave. Quant quant is that real? Or did you just pick it up?

Molly 32:36

No quant is is one that is that I learned about from oh my god what was the documentary thing about Facebook?

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:46

Is it just like a privacy focused browser? Yeah okay but Brave is also okay right okay great cuz cuz I because I love

Molly 32:55

you love having your your stuff stolen

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:58

yet? Well, it's more I'm really more about the undermining democracy part personally, that's what

Molly 33:03

it loves to undermine democracy these days. Next time thank you for listening to spilled milk. The show that's just going around to all the butchers counters asking for thinly sliced pork belly for hot pot.

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:17

Yeah, just like Pope bring something up. It says can you take Can you shave this?

Molly 33:21

I'm Molly Weissenberg. And

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:22

I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.

Molly 33:33

Matthew, why did you have to mention undermining democracy at the end of the show were a couple

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:38

of depths and you can dip us in anything you want.