536: Herbal Tea

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:04

I'm Matthew.

Molly 0:05

Wow, this is a crisp beginning. I'm Molly and

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:07

this is filled melt the show where we cook something crisp crisp at all and you can't have any

Molly 0:12

it's really hard enunciating a crisp on the mic without popping my pee.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:17

Yeah, the other day I was working on a song and realized that I was dropping all the letters letter ages at the beginning of words like like I was doing a bad fake cockney accent just because it's harder to sing the age than than not sing it. And I listened back I'm like, Oh, this sounds ridiculous.

Molly 0:35

Well, I was gonna try to find an H I could drop in the next sentence I was gonna say but I don't think I have one. For you. This is spilled milk the show where we cook something delicious heat at all

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:52

all right. Yeah, I've got a spilled milk mug here full of stash super mint herbal tea. And that subject of today's episode herbal

Molly 1:03

tea Yes, herbal tea at today's episode was suggested by listener Ren. Thank you listener Ren. We are thrilled to be talking about herbal tea today.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:13

Now when I left let's just pop right on to memory lane because I remember as a kid often hearing this referred to as herb tea. And I don't think I've heard that in the last 30 years maybe when I

Molly 1:25

saw the people still say I think this is a Judy Amster ism. No, I don't think so. When I saw that you had written aka herb tea on the agenda. I was like, Who calls it that that sounds like slang for like weed that you've left out in the in the rain or something.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:44

Oh, someone left my weed out in the rain.

Molly 1:47

So Saturday. I mean like really? herb tea or herb tea is like slang for bone water. Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:53

Yeah, but I like I think maybe I remember my grandma's saying that seems believable. Right or tea?

Molly 2:03

I guess.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:04

I mean, when you if you look at Wikipedia, it says often called herb tea.

Molly 2:07

Does it really have the often there? Okay.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:12

I didn't I know things would get so contentious. Right at the beginning. Often Well, I'm herb tea, or the plain term tea is used as a reference to all sorts of herbal teas.

Molly 2:22

Hmm. Okay.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:24

All right times it said Not often, oftentimes. This morning, I learned that there's a video game called Dragon's Dogma, and I'm getting more into video games these days are probably there's going to be a new segment, but I've not gotten Animal Crossing although I might. But I imagine I've not played this game Dragon's Dogma, but I imagined it being just like a dragon that sort of like lays out its philosophy and religious beliefs.

Molly 2:45

Right? It's gonna say I was gonna say the Dragon will be like a gather round children. Right?

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:50

And then I guess you have a debate with it. It's gonna issue a manifesto. If you've played this game and know what it's really about. Good. Good for you.

Molly 2:59

Okay, so wait a minute, hold on. So herbal tea isn't just known as herb tea. It's also known as herbal infusions.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:08

Tea Zhan is ever known as herbal essences. Probably that was the shampoo, right?

Molly 3:16

That's right. Okay, but hold on. We were gonna start out on memory lane. You start because on this agenda, your memory lane literally fits on one line. And mine is like 18 lines of text.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:30

Okay, but you start right but I didn't write out literally all of my beliefs and dogma about herb tea. I did. Okay, so I remember it. I think my earliest herbal tea memories are stash licorice spice, which my mom would give me like if I had a tummy ache. Hmm. Either. Either that or seven. Maybe maybe some of both. Maybe some sort of cocktail. What about flat coke? I have heard of flat coke being given as a home remedy but we were not allowed to drink Coke. And we were never given a like a substitute flat drink.

Molly 4:02

Wait, hold on. Is there anything in your your child's life that they would look back and say like we were I was not allowed to drink blank. That's

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:12

a good No, we're very permissive.

Molly 4:14

You're not permissive. But, you know.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:17

I mean, this morning that cinnamon toast crunch for breakfast.

Molly 4:20

Okay, yeah, my child at regularly has regular cinnamon toast for breakfast. I don't think June will look back on anything and be like I wasn't allowed to eat or drink that.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:32

But what if she wanted to start drinking coffee? What would you say? Um,

Molly 4:36

she could have decaf? Yeah, sure. Well, you know, what are you going to do? She likes black tea. So I keep half black tea in the house.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:43

So do I in fact, I have some right here because I wanted to debate whether it's herb tea or not. I've started seeing or

Molly 4:49

you're starting to like glitter tea. Yeah, do that. Okay, wait a minute. So should we just should we talk back and forth here us? Licorice spice. Wow. Licorice spice. Wow, things are off to a good start. Oh, okay. Well, Matthew, I think that before we go any further down either of our memory lanes, we need to say the word celestial seasoning. Yes. Because Celeste, if you like us grew up primarily in the 80s. And then you stopped growing up after the 80s. Yeah, after that my growth was stunted. Yeah. You are very familiar with the old Celestial Seasonings tea box. And the the range of Celestial Seasonings tea.

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:31

Okay, so speaking of kids drinking coffee, rubber, did you ever have someone say like that if you give a kid drink coffee, it will stunt their growth?

Molly 5:39

Oh, people? Yes, definitely.

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:41

Think about that. Like, it was the allegation that like if you let your kid drink coffee, they would grow up to be like a really, really short. And it would be all because of the coffee like what? What was it exactly? People were arguing there?

Molly 5:52

I don't understand. There were so many things. They could do so many bad things.

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:57

Like, you know, like you listen to Metallica. And then you want to kill them all?

Molly 6:02

Yeah, you know, I listened to that Pearl Jam Jeremy song. Oh, yeah. And say no more. Yeah. Anyway, okay, so Celestial Seasonings, red Zinger. My mom loves Celestial Seasonings, red Zinger. But I feel like it's one of those things where I heard about how much she loved it more than I saw her drink it okay, like, my mom has this, this memory that she brings up every single time the word red Zinger is even just like floating through the air.

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:36

That's a phrase that comes up a lot.

Molly 6:39

No, but we'll be like walking down the tea aisle. And she'll be like, I remember this time. When did we

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:45

do this episode before? Because I feel like we've talked about red Zinger, we've talked about red

Molly 6:49

Zinger a lot. Well, the thing is, is that my parents used to ski when I was a kid, and in Oklahoma, there are not very many places to ski. And so everybody goes to Colorado and we would occasionally go to Snowmass Colorado and my mom has some sort of a memory that she cannot shake of making either oatmeal cookies or ginger cookies. I can't remember which they were and sitting in like this condo in Snowmass on like a snowy afternoon feeling extremely content with a cup of red Zinger tea. And whichever type of cookie this was,

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:27

I like I like that's a nice memory and like I have heard of Snowmass, Colorado but I haven't stopped to like think about what a funny name it is until now. And I'm enjoying it as well.

Molly 7:36

When you imagine your equivalent of like a snowy afternoon with red Zinger and let's say oatmeal cookies. What is your equivalent of that memory?

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:47

I imagine immediately Swiss Miss hot cocoa, huh? Like that would be definitely the thing I would have wanted as a kid just like

Molly 7:55

as an adult. Adult sitting around in a condo tentatively sipping red gin, red Zinger and eating oatmeal cookies.

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:05

I'm gonna say, mulled wine, and

Molly 8:09

you never drink?

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:10

Of course I never drink. Did I do a mulled wine episode though. I haven't had any since then.

Molly 8:18

Okay, hold on. Haven't you had any moments recently? So we had a lot of snow this past winter? Didn't you have any moments in it? Where you were sitting contentedly in your apartment with your loved ones drinking axe and eating? Why?

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:31

Yeah, so I'm gonna say like drinking green tea, which is my favorite beverage other than water and probably eating a homemade chocolate chip cookie. That sounds fantastic like I think I think it's under appreciated like if we done a green tea episode or did we decide not to because it would just be like me droning on interminably. I think that the ladder okay, but maybe we should anyway. Oh, we should. I think we should like if people if people haven't gotten used to my interminable drone at this point, like after hours and episodes.

Molly 9:04

People love your interminable drone. Yeah, I do.

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:07

Did you get a drone for Christmas?

Molly 9:09

Anyway, I'm gonna continue on. But

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:11

I was I was gonna say I think people it's underappreciated. How well green tea and especially like nice bitter green tea goes with like an American dessert like a chocolate.

Molly 9:21

Ooh, okay. Okay, fun. I like the thought

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:25

it's fun. That is the definition of fun like when I when I think of like, like pulling a real bender. It definitely could have Japanese tea and a cookie.

Molly 9:34

Yeah. Okay, Matthew, what's next on your memory lane. I see you have read Zinger as well.

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:39

I definitely remember red Zinger and then learning much later that it was read from hibiscus leaves. I don't remember like a specific context. I remember being given chamomile tea like as a sleep aid and also sleepy time tea.

Molly 9:52

I love the phrase sleepy Thai word sleepy.

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:55

Remember like who makes like it's probably Celestial Seasonings also right you say sleep eat time a couple sleepy time tea sleepy time sleepy time. Okay, all the listeners are asleep we can wrap the presence now we can do all the nasty stuff that we don't want to do all the listeners are watching

Molly 10:18

there's nobody here let's let's just end this episode I'm Molly

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:23

I want cookies.

Molly 10:25

Okay now but go ahead

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:26

oh so I was gonna say Celestial Seasonings I think has like the best tea names right then they

Molly 10:32

do is a Celestial Seasonings tea but what else do they have?

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:35

Well, morning thunder, which I think has caffeine. Okay, I started to Google Celestial Seasonings just just space and the first that was suggested was Celestial Seasonings morning thunder sleepy time and Celestial Seasonings cult. So that's what we're gonna be talking about. For the rest of the episode sleepy time tea and the little known religion behind it

Molly 11:03

oh my god, do we need to do a hole are we Is this gonna turn into like you're wrong about like, you're wrong about seasoning

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:11

like that thing we always forget about the the Oneidas that Oneida silverware was like like a free love religious colony in like the late 19th century and they started making silverware.

Molly 11:22

Oh my god, hold on let we have to do this

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:25

if there's money episode. Okay, so like just talk about that kind of thing.

Molly 11:29

Money beat us to the Oneida silverware Colt. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Oh, okay. But what about this list? You'll seasonings cult. Okay, so if it's a good story, don't tell it. We're gonna do a whole other.

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:46

Okay, great. Well, yeah, it sounds like a good story. So let's do that. We could talk about the Oneida thing also, like, what? You know, I think probably all the true crime podcasts are like someone read a true crime book. And now we're going to talk about it on our podcast and maybe mention the author. So like, I think we could do that. Okay. Okay. I've never listened to a true crime podcast. Probably they do a lot of original research and detective work. Wait a minute. You've never listened to a true that's not true. Listen to half of cereal and they got bored. Wow.

Molly 12:13

Okay. Okay, Matthew, we'll talk about this some of the time. Okay, hold on. I want to go back to chamomile tea back to sleepy time. So I have always had a tendency to burn my mouth easily on hard things. And I was not a daily coffee drinker until I was probably in my 30s. Like my early 30s. And that's why you're tall. That is. I'm the tallest woman in my family at five foot five. Okay, yeah. No, what I was gonna say is, I've always liked the taste of coffee, but sort of as a residual of being kind of a straight edger in in my teens, and then not liking hot beverages because I burned my mouth all the time. I did not drink like hot beverages much in college, but I do remember my senior year, going through a phase. So I lived in an apartment on campus with my friend Keaton. And Keaton was a big tea drinker, like a black tea drinker. And I remember I decided I wanted a morning beverage in the morning beverage I chose was chamomile tea. I drink chamomile tea in the morning for months. It was like my thing my senior year of college that doesn't say everything about the college student. Wow. I don't know what will and I would buy it loose for God's sake. Like not even in a tea bag. I was like a snooty chamomile tea drinker.

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:42

Wow. You buy like loose loose chamomile flowers. I think we did that. We bought some buds for the for the camera meal episode.

Molly 13:52

I think we did. Yeah, but can you believe I drank like I've never had the camera meal makes me sleepy. Obviously. I was drinking it in the morning in college. Sure.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:01

I mean, I was always sleepy in the morning in college. So like I'm sure wouldn't have helped. I feel

Molly 14:06

like you were a much more normal college student than I was. You actually did rebellious things. I mean, Matthew you dropped out of college for God's sake. Yeah, meal tea as a morning beverage.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:20

I don't know. I didn't feel very rebellious.

Molly 14:23

Okay, anyway, I'm gonna go on because I have many more things. Oh, please. So good Earth tea. I meant to kind of go deep in researching this and then word, but my so

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:35

hard where you find out what kind of cult it is? Correct.

Molly 14:39

Brandon's family. They love good Earth tea. And they are quite hippie ish. And don't drink any caffeine. So they have always kept the decaf version around because red alert everybody good Earth tea B while being an herbal tea does have actual tea leaves in it and is caffeine. He did. Right. We'll talk more about that in a minute.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:02

But the same is true of market spice tea popular in Seattle. Oh, I

Molly 15:07

didn't realize that. Okay. Now, I want to like move over to the, the herbal infusion category. So here we are. I'm back in college again. Okay. Okay. I don't really drink caffeine. Struggle with hot beverages. I'm so fun. Okay, well, when I

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:27

there is a word. Wait, can I can I interrupt real quick? Yeah, I mean, I've said this before. There's a word in Japanese that I love, Nicko. GTAW. Which, which means cat's tongue. And it refers to a person who is his mouth, their mouth is sensitive to hot beverages.

Molly 15:45

Oh my gosh, I love that. There's a word for that. Okay, well, I went to, as I've mentioned many times, I went to France for my junior year of college and I was living with this host family. And the subway station that we were closest to had this like beautiful art nouveau cafe right at the corner where the subway station was. And I was super charmed by the the decor of this cafe. And often I would finish school with like, lots of time before I needed to be home for dinner. And I would want to like you know, do the thing where you sit in a coffee house and do your homework. Yeah, but I would go do it at this like fancy ass lookin but very ordinary cafe near my subway stop. And anyway, I didn't want to have coffee. I didn't want to have alcohol because again, loser. And so what I I don't really think I was a loser. I'm just exaggerating. What I chose to have was something I saw listed on the menu that I had never heard of before, which was a teasin. So basically, they took fresh herbs, steeped it in hot water and that was the teas on okay, I'm

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:59

glad you said because when you said herbal infusions, what I imagined was fresh herbs versus dried herbs.

Molly 17:04

So it actually may have said in parentheses on the menu, or it may have said additionally and Fuzion like infusion. The one I would order was verbena. So it was like lemon verbena. Like just straight herbs in hot water and rare. It was so delicious. It would be like three o'clock in the afternoon I would watch the world go by. It was only later like at the dinner table that I mentioned to my host siblings that this was something I loved to drink. And they told me that that those herbal infusions were only for old ladies. Sure, of course. So anyway, that was a really sweet time until my stupid host brothers ruined it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:46

I love I love when kids say mean things. I know it's kind of a favorite thing of mine. Recently, it works out reported that her daughter said, Mom, you don't have any friends. And if you do, it's probably because they feel sorry for you. Oh my How old is this child? Oh, like 16 Probably so like classic like adolescent like really? Like twisting the knife. Where? You know you can like take like I'm sure it like it was was like awful at the moment, but then you could take a step back and sort of like, admire

Molly 18:19

enjoy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Matthew, have you ever had like Moroccan sweet mint tea? Yes. Like I can

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:27

say yeah, like at there used to be a restaurant called Marrakech that was in Seattle and Portland and I would go I think I would go with my family sometimes, like with a friend's family. When I was in high school. That's where I first had Chrystia the crispy like, chicken chicken. Philo pie. And they would do they would pour mint tea into into like those ornate What do you call those glasses that have like the like the

Molly 18:54

like that? Yeah, they had either like, you know, gold paint on it or or they would have like, almost like a little metal? Like frame.

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:03

Yeah. Or like, like from a great height? Yes. Yes. Loved it.

Molly 19:10

So when I was in Paris as a student, I had a friend who lives right near, like the big Paris mosque, okay, in I believe is in the fifth around d small. So this was like 2000 I was like, you know, 21 years old or something. And anyway, she and I went one afternoon and I remember we even got like a little bit, you know, fancied up to go to the cafe at the Grand Mosque of Paris, the tea salon there and have sweet mint tea and it was so awkward. Yes. It was amazing. It was amazing. The one time I've been to Paris I think we stayed in the fifth. So we did not go to the to the cafe at the Grand Mosque. I have one other thing I have to say about places. I did my homework in Paris. So I read in a guidebook about this place called Lulu Aldona Taya which means the dormouse in the teapot.

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:04

So, Luca, is it dormouse? Yes.

Molly 20:08

It doesn't have a word. Yeah, it is nice. It doesn't have any at the end like the river. But anyway, yes la donna Taya. And anyway it was it had like Alice in Wonderland murals all over the wall and it was very like shabby chic. It's still there. Actually, I think it was in the third or the fourth night. Anyway, I would go there and I would order a pot of chamomile tea shaken me with the chamomile tea. I would order a pot of chamomile tea and they had all these outsized, often American style baked goods there. So they had like a five inch tall lemon meringue pie the best lemon meringue pie I've ever had. That was the first place in France that I ever saw a crumble. Oh, timber. Remember when we talked about Cambell? Yes, yeah. Anyway, they had a whole bunch of like, British and American style like pies and tarts and things like that. And I would go and I would sit there and I would have my chamomile tea and my fucking gigantic Marang lemon meringue pie. And I would do my homework. And that was the life. Oh, that sounds really good. Can I can I take another lifetime?

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:15

Yeah. Can I add a memory lane? Oh, yeah, like anything. Like, I know I told this story before that, like a couple years ago, I got invited to, to like be a guest at in someone's English class at Pacific Lutheran University. And to talk about novel writing, I think character development and which which is weird because like I wrote it one one novel that was self published, but hey, you take what you can get, I guess. And, and like, I went in, like, I had not been in a college classroom in a while. And I went in thinking, oh, like, you know, these these college students. They're like young adults not so different for me and like, they were like, it was a freshman class. And they were just like, children. And so like, that was really like, the moment when I realized oh, like, like my college days are it's very, very long time ago. And

Molly 22:06


Matthew Amster-Burton 22:07

Was another life.

Molly 22:08

It is such a well, Matthew, maybe we should. We'll save this conversation about being old for our other podcast. Teeth.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:19

I guess it's called you scald teeth. spilled tea spilled. Okay, right.

Molly 22:23

Like our teeth. What's What's the little pellet? You drop in a cup and then you put your teeth in there

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:29

and Oh, I do that every day because I have a night guard to to like prevent like tooth grinding.

Molly 22:34

Yeah, but what's that? What's that little teen? It's not Alka Seltzer.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:40

It's you know, it's like it but it's dangerous. Again, effort dent. Dent. Yeah. Okay, so, um, so our other our spin off show is gonna be called the effort. Dent yours?

Molly 22:52

Oh, I thought it was gonna be called spilled teeth. And it's like, we knocked over our glass of effort. No. Okay. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:57

yeah. Spilled teeth. The effort years.

Molly 23:00

Okay, all right, Matthew. I think we finally finished memory. No, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:04

thought of another one. So 25 minutes into the show. I wanted to give a shout out to to remedy teas. Because like, oh my god remedy tz Yes. So late lamented tea cafe and that was in my neighborhood in Seattle for it was open for 11 years. It closed maybe three years ago. Probably more than that. Now, you

Molly 23:25

and I used to write there. Yeah, you wrote there there.

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:29

And I would usually get Japanese green tea. But like when I wanted when I would go like in the evening or wanted something non caffeinated. I would usually just get peppermint and have like a big pot of peppermint tea. It was such a nice little cafe.

Molly 23:49

Now that we've just spent 25 minutes talking about herbal teas, I think we should go back and talk about what they are.

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:56

Okay. Yeah, I've been wondering this whole time.

Molly 24:00

So basically, an herbal tea is just any beverage that's made from the infusion or the smashing and boiling of fresh

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:10

on a second. You just you used a word here in the agenda and then tried to like just just like slink on by it without saying it but I want to hear this word. I don't want to decoction Okay, so I've heard this word before but I don't think I knew that it meant like a smashing and boiling.

Molly 24:28

It's much more complicated than I simplified it all right. But basically what an herbal tea is, is it's a fresh or dried plant part whether flour, Herb spice or other plant material that is either infused or sort of boiled in in hot water. And I guess infusing is also part of what happens when you boil plant matter in hot water. Now but anyway,

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:52

I think of infusing as a little different from boiling and like I don't think this is like an actual definition just like like pops into my head that I think infusing I think like you pour boiling water over it and let it steep. But like if I boil the stuff in the water, that's obviously still infusing but it feels different.

Molly 25:10

It's whether we're talking about an infusion or infusing because Okay, don't don't things from the plant. infuse the hot water as it boils, but that's not the same thing as an infusion. Which Yes, I think you're right. Oh, no. Okay, let's

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:25

go with that.

Molly 25:26

Oh my god. Okay. I can't even believe we're going with any of this. This is our most boring episode have spilled tea yet.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:34

No, but no, but this is episode one. Wait, are we are we like switching right now from know how to spell teeth the effort years.

Molly 25:41

Okay, hold on. So most herbal teas do not naturally contain caffeine, but we're going to put a little asterisk next to that and we're going to come back to it. Okay. But for now, let's let's just differentiate between herbal tea and what a lot of people call true tea, which is tea that's made from the cured leaves of the tea plant

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:03

Camelia sinensis.

Molly 26:04

Mm hmm. That's right. That's right. So some people find this confusing, and I think that this is why like maybe some people snooty people insist on using the word teas and herbal infusion or whatever.

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:18

Sometimes snooty. People use that word that you used earlier. Yes. Okay.

Molly 26:23

Just Exactly. Exactly. Because, you know, if you're just saying like, Would you like some herbal tea? Well, it is kind of weird. I mean, we have a tea plant, but there's no tea plant in this herbal tea and what I mean, it's like,

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:35

there's also tea tree oil. That's true, which is also different. It is different as Yeah, it's a totally different plant.

Molly 26:42

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. It to add confusion to all of this, please. As I mentioned earlier, when we were talking about good Earth tea blend, some herbal tea blends do contain actual tea. So like, leaves up the tea plant. According to Wikipedia, we could actually call coffee an herbal tea, because it's an infusion made what if you

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:03

were the person at the at the party who goes around trying to convince people you know, actually, coffee if you think about it, coffee is really an herbal tea.

Molly 27:13

You know, this is what I when I was when I was drinking chamomile tea in the morning. I would have gone to parties and been like, Oh, you think you're so cool? Because you drink coffee? It's basically an herbal tea.

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:24

Yeah, they would reply. Yes. I do think I'm cool because I drink coffee.

Molly 27:29

Anyway, coffee is like by the definition of herbal tea. It is an herbal tea. But because it has a specific name we call it by that specific name. Same thing with like Ma Tei or ribose

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:42

ribose on the on the agenda because I think it does seem like an herbal tea to me. Okay, but we can we can make we can do a separate ribose episode. Maybe sometime, either on this show or spilled teeth.

Molly 27:54

Okay. So, Matthew, do you keep herbal teas around by any definition?

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:59

Molly, I'm so glad you asked because I went into our root cellar and I pulled out all of the herbal teas I could find and I'm going to show them to you now. We've got stash Superman, which is the one I'm drinking this morning. Okay, we've got Bigelow orange and spice. Okay, we've got PG to

Molly 28:16

wait hold on. Hold on. Is the Bigelow orange spice though. I think that's just a flavored black tea.

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:21

I don't think so. Look at the look at the ingredient the instructions ready. Rose hip spices hibiscus, orange peel roasted chicory and natural orange flavors.

Molly 28:31

Oh, you're right. You're right. You're right.

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:33

But there are a lot of orange flavored black teas, so I don't blame you. I've got PG Tips decaf which I don't think really counts.

Molly 28:40

I don't think that counts as an herbal tea Matthew, but

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:42

I have been enjoying that lately and I have stashed licorice spice.

Molly 28:45

Okay. And would you say this is a typical array?

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:48

There's a typical Hall Yeah.

Molly 28:50

Okay. So I went to my I have like a little tea bin and ours while we have a lot of of herbal teas

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:01

that wait when you say have a tea bin Do you have like a little tray like you would see in an Airbnb or hotel room that has like a like a lineup of tea bags and tea packets?

Molly 29:11

No, I always find that so satisfying to Oh my god. Whenever we whenever I'm in a new Airbnb, I like love combing through the cabinet. Yes, seeing like what tea they've chosen. I always feel that they have really gone the extra mile. If they have sourced more than just your basic like Twinings. Yeah, tea packets.

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:33

Is it Twinings or twinnings? Have we had this conversation before? Because I would have said twinnings, but I have no justification. Either way. I have no idea. Maybe our listeners will let us know. Yep. Okay, twine in contact. It's built up podcast.com

Molly 29:47

Okay. So I have a number of those like Traditional Medicinals brands. Sure. Yeah, throat code is a big one in our house. We are never without throat code. Do you? How do you feel about throat coat?

Matthew Amster-Burton 29:59

I haven't had Did it a long time what's what's the alleged active ingredient?

Molly 30:03

I think it's marshmallow root slippery elm.

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:06

Oh, sure. Yeah, I

Molly 30:07

think there's some licorice in there.

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:09

Organic throat coat tea supports throat health with renowned slippery elm.

Molly 30:15

It really works. Okay, it really works. So we always have throat code around. We always have either chamomile or Nighty night, which is Traditional Medicinals version of sleepy time. Then we also always have Egyptian licorice tea made by Yogi Oh yeah, Jun loves that. So because licorice is a dominant flavor and throat coat. To me this Egyptian licorice kind of is evocative a throat coat but without the need to have a sore throat. You don't have to have a sore throat to drink throat coat but I like to save it for them. So it's spelt right

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:52

now. I do find that because licorice spice is the thing that I drank if I'm sick, like if I drink it when I'm not sick. It feels weird.

Molly 31:00

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't want to drink even though I know I could drink throat coat anytime I I don't want to drink it when I'm sick. Yeah, Egyptian licorice we keep around June loves it. June used to be big into peppermint tea. I don't think she's had it for years. But we still have some kicking around. And then can I tell you I have this real love for the turmeric ginger tea made by Rishi ever had that if they used to sell it at Ballard market, and now I can't seem to find like who carries this tea company. It's like kind of stupid expensive for like a grocery store. Tea. But anyway, it's delicious. Yeah, I want to get my hands on some of that. I always, you know, it's weird because I'm willing to throw down like $15 for three quarters of a pound of coffee beans. And originally spent $10 on a coffee the original herbal tea. Yes. And yet, when I throw down like $10 at the grocery store on a box of herbal tea, I feel like a real I

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:01

know what you mean. But But yeah, like spring for the good stuff. I give you permission.

Molly 32:05

Well, thank you. They say treat yourself. Yeah, Matthew that's what they say. Hashtag treat yourself. Got it. Okay, so Matthew, do you ever make cheese ons with fresh herbs? Come on. You can you can tell.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:18

Like no more than a few times a week. I don't think I've ever came in. Yeah, me too. I've never done this like but I mean, it sounds appealing. Like and I've got like so much lemon verbena.

Molly 32:28

I've got a lot of dill

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:31

God that's it. As you know, I hate dill. And like the idea of a DL t's on I can't think of anything worse. It's like that's like identify us

Molly 32:45

hold on, I want to talk a little bit about like grain. Yeah. For instance, Matthew What about like Korean toasted rice tea?

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:53

Yeah, absolutely. I have had I've had the Korean toasted rice tea and the the corrente the oak Sosa Cha those are barley Gee, typical of East Asia barley tea. Yeah, like anytime I'm in Japan in the summer I will drink Mookie Cha barley tea every day. It's considered like the most cooling beverage Oh,

Molly 33:11

I love the flavor of roasted barley tea. I had a really good iced roasted barley tea at rebel a couple well God pre pandemic, but I still remember it. You know Matthew, I enjoyed researching this episode and spending time at Lenoir Dona Taya in my mind. But the real bummer for me in researching this episode was in discovering that apparently the world thinks it's important enough that the world needs to know this that that fruit or fruit flavored tea can erode tooth enamel because it's very acidic. So does this mean like I shouldn't be having my red Zinger? Because like that's really acidic. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:48

I don't think it means that because I think like people drink a lot of acidic beverages. And I don't think for most people, herbal tea is going to be like a big part of that. Like compared to like, soda is very acidic. Coffee. Lemonade for juices, like yes, I think like if you drank red Zinger like non stop all day long,

Molly 34:11

probably what if I swish with it as though it's a fluoride? Maybe your dentist

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:15

will have it have to have a talk with you. Like don't do that more. I want to I want to like get get those get you those dentures? I've been promising you.

Molly 34:25

I hear you started this new podcast build teeth, but you still have all your original teeth. So we got to do something about Yes.

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:31

I don't. I'm gonna let me talk about my crown some more because like, I really like it.

Molly 34:36

Yeah. Have you noticed and improve to like tooth function?

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:39

Um, yeah, maybe wait, but it's just as good as the old tooth and but you can sort of feel that it's there.

Molly 34:46

Okay. Hey, do you remember like, did your grandparents have like, not dentures, but like a bridge?

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:51

I think so. What's the difference? Like I remember, well, I

Molly 34:54

think a bridge is just like a, like a few teeth, whereas dentures would be I think maybe like A larger, larger tray of teeth. I don't really know what

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:04

the show Laurie likes it likes to talk about how her grandpa would take his teeth out and put them in a cup and how all the kids found this, like very scary and entertaining.

Molly 35:12

My grandmother had a bridge I remember and she was very clear about calling it her bridge. Not dentures. Okay, yeah, so she clearly she felt superior that she had a bridge and not dentures like that was a bridge too far. Oh, God, see what I did.

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:28

I mean, I do think like I've been thinking a lot about dentistry lately because like both both Laurie and I had to have like serious dentistry for the first time since getting our wisdom teeth out, I guess. Like, you know, we're starting to get old kind of dentistry and and like, I do think like it is really annoying to like go and like get a crown or an implant and like pay a bunch of money and like sit in the dentist chair for a long time. But I really I do think it really is a better system than the than the let's pull it and give give you dentures system. I think like Dentistry has improved a lot since that since that aid.

Molly 36:01

I love how this is wound up.

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:03

So are you are you so afraid of dental emergencies? Because I don't think you have to be like they can do so much with reconstruction.

Molly 36:11

You know, I was eating some sort of chewy fruit candy with June the other day and I did suddenly think to myself, I just had some fillings replaced and I don't want to

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:21

do Yeah, and like if this crown like fell off, I would be pretty upset. Yeah,

Molly 36:26

yeah. So but so what I did was I just kind of like sucked on the candy and didn't chew on it as much and still okay, good for you. That's gonna be my strategy.

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:35

Okay, so anyway, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say like, you know, tooth enamel erosion for red Zinger is maybe not a big societal problem.

Molly 36:42

Oh, my God. But Matthew, you haven't done any research. I'm just like I said, I'm going out on this limb. Okay, okay. Well, Matthew, that's about all I've got to say about teeth and dental tea. Yeah, I mean,

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:56

I will say like, if you go on the internet and search anything related to acidity and basicity, you will find so much crackpot cockamamie stuff about, like, you know, is your body too acidic or too alkaline? And like, it's all total bullshit.

Molly 37:11

I had a really intelligent friend tell me a few years ago that all the fizzy water that I was drinking was like, was bad for me, like the bubbles could get in my bloodstream. And I was like, that's not how I

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:27

think there probably are reasons that like drinking lots of fizzy water could be problematic. I don't know. But it's not like it's the thing of like, you know, worrying about like, Is my system acidic or like too acidic or too alkaline? That like has no basis in fact, homeostasis? Yeah, we have homeostasis. Also, I saw like, I was looking at like, what is what is the pH of various kinds of tea because I wanted to know, like, are these fruit infused teas? Like really acidic, which, which they are fairly acidic, but like, I found like, allegedly, like like matcha like someone said had like a pH of 10, which is like baking soda. So that would taste so gross. Anyway,

Molly 38:10

okay. All right, Matthew, do you have anything else for us?

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:15

Let's do 45 more minutes about dentistry and or an herbal tea. And then let's get to segments. Okay,

Molly 38:21

Matthew, it's time for now but wow

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:32

I've got a got a great now but wow, this week, I got to like, I was gonna say one and a half. But why don't you? Why don't we save one because one of them is not really a now but wow, it's it's a host but post. Oh, okay. I can't wait. I literally just came up with that on the fly. And I'm so proud of myself right now. You're so smart. Okay, so my now but wow, is from Russia catch her away? Who is the host of song exploder and was the host of what's it called home cooking? Yes, with Sammy rice, right. And he has a new fairly new newsletter that I believe it's not actually on substack but on a competitor but that type of newsletter called accept cookies. And I love the name. And it is about quote creative, delightful treats in the world of music and art, but also the world of food and sometimes actual cookies. And he recently introduced a feature called snack Club, where everyone every subscriber is invited to get and try the same snack off in a packaged cookie. And and then report back what you thought about it.

Molly 39:36

Oh my god, this is so fun. So where do we find it? What's the URL

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:41

some raesha cash.bulletin.com That's H RISHIKES h.bulletin.com.

Molly 39:50

Speaking of Rishi cash her way, I was listening to a recent episode of song exploder where they talked about the Franz Ferdinand Episode I love that song that was so fun. Oh god that was so fun. Really cool to hear how they had just to hear them

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:09

unpack if you like that song like listen to this episode because they play a tape of like the like the early Genesis like home recording of this saga of like Alex and and maybe on a key Yeah and like one of the other members of Franz Ferdinand just like goofing around like, like recording in their living room and coming up with the idea for the song. Very cool.

Molly 40:28

I love that people save stuff. Like I know, when people have early demos of songs from before they're famous, and especially from before, like a highly digital era that we're living in now. Did these people just like have the good sense to take themselves seriously enough to keep these recordings?

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:50

A good question? I don't know. How did this happen? Oh, no. A stroke

Molly 40:54

of luck. How did they not at some point just like throw away all their old demo? I don't know. I like like writers do when they throw away all their teenage polish. should

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:03

I should I be like keeping my demos in case one of my songs hits it big. Yes. Okay. I mean, what?

Molly 41:08

What if she kept her away? Has you on Sonic spluttering, you don't have your demo?

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:13

But on the other hand, like in my case, like, what's the difference between the demo and the actual song, Matthew,

Molly 41:19

save it for your thing. Okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:20

so also, so that's the accept cookies newsletter. Speaking of newsletters, there's someone else that you should know about who has a new newsletter.

Molly 41:29

It's me. It's me, everybody. Hi. I'm host Molly. I decided earlier this year that I wanted to be writing online again. And I wanted, I wanted a place to write online about all kinds of things, not just the food that I used to write about. And in particular, I wanted to write about stuff that I am really passionate about, which is a really wide range of things. So, so far, at least as we're recording this episode, I've written about taking walks with my friend Ben, David Byrne, and stuffed shells. So who knows what's gonna come next?

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:08

Oh, wait, as we're recording, it's Monday. Does that mean the stuffed shells? I should have the stuffed shells? Newsletter now?

Molly 42:13

You're gonna have it tomorrow? Yeah. Anyway, it has been so much fun. I'm building a really fun community over there, which is something that it feels really different from the early days of from the old blogging days. It's just really fun. The ways that people can interact and respond, and I'm really excited about it. All right. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:33

love this newsletter. I look for it every week. It's called I've got a feeling where did they get it?

Molly 42:38

I thought you were saying it was called I've got a feeling where do they get it?

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:45

It's called I've got a feeling but where did this feeling come from? Starring host volley?

Molly 42:51

What part of my body does this feeling reside in?

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:54

I mean, that's something that does like having more and more as you get older, like you're like, you know, I feel like something weird, but like where

Molly 43:01

it refers referred pain letter is going to be called referred pain.

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:06

In my case, it's less often referred pain and more often just like referred.

Molly 43:10

Yeah. Okay. So you can find I've got a feeling my new newsletter at Molly weisenberg.substack.com. That's so easy. It is so easy. And it is free for the moment, there will always be free content there. But there are also special features for paid subscribers. So thanks so much.

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:29

I'm a paid subscriber.

Molly 43:30

You are Matthew and God. Matthew, that was so sweet. When you became a paid subscriber. You didn't have to do that. Man. You read all my drafts.

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:39

That's That's true. But like, I just want to, I want to support I want to see it show up in my inbox. I just want to be part of the community. Oh, wow. Thanks. I mean, I don't contribute anything to the community, but I just want to feel like part of it.

Molly 43:51

Okay. Okay. Actually, just I wanted to tell you, so when I put up a thread for paid subscribers last Friday, oh, just to see what would happen. I wanted people to tell me who their David Byrne was. Oh, I missed this. And I want to tell you, my David Byrne is Oh, you didn't see it. You should go Leave, leave a comment. But anyway, there was a really fun discussion happening about Nikko case in there. Oh, sure. Yeah, my friend Kate, jumped into the comments with a wonderful story about Nikko case. So check it out.

Matthew Amster-Burton 44:18

I was having a long discussion recently with mom of the show, Judy Amster. About Like, who do we think are just the best singers ever, irrespective of like whether we even like, you know, are particularly into their music ourselves. Just like who has like the most amazing voices? We both agreed Aretha Franklin is number one. Yeah, of course. But like, the green ego case definitely comes to mind. And I'm not like, you know, someone who like listens to a lot of Nikko case, but what an incredible voice. And I do I do listen to a lot of her in the New Pornographers context. Who else was on the list? Oh, okay. Who else was on the list? Just like all time, great singers. Something comes to mind for me is Freddie Mercury. Right number three. I was that was like my new Number two, yeah. Freddie Mercury off the hook. Robert Plant.

Molly 45:03


Matthew Amster-Burton 45:04

Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder,

Molly 45:06

okay. Wow, I love how available these are to you like, just right at the toilet.

Matthew Amster-Burton 45:12

We just had this conversation we had we had like a bit of debate about Van Morrison because partly partly because I find his voice to be a bit of an acquired taste for me and also because he's like a garbage man. But

Molly 45:25

your next conversation with your mom should be about requests, people whose voices are like, how did they decide they were going to be a singer? Okay, like Bob Dylan? Like Bob Dylan, Axl Rose. Sure. Even Bruce Springsteen, I mean, people who I actually really like, sometimes you just listen to them, and you're like, how the hell did they get? Like, I know, I'm gonna be a singer.

Matthew Amster-Burton 45:52

Right? I've had this conversation with Doug, my voice teacher about how like, you know, a lot of the most beloved singers are not like technically great singers. They're people who, like have something special or weird or interesting, or just like, their personality comes through perfectly in their voice. Like, it's not about like, you know, hitting all the notes perfectly or having perfect technique. Although there are successful singers. You can say that about also,

Molly 46:18

would you say that David Byrne is like that. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:20

think it is like that. Yeah.

Molly 46:22

I can never decide if I think that he is like, I mean, of course, he is a technically good singer. He has made his voice work for him for like, a 60 years. Wow, is that true?

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:33

I don't know if it's quite that long. Let's find out how old probably close. No, he's probably like, 65. That's my guess.

Molly 46:39

But then there are times when like his voice is true. I think his voice is truly beautiful. Oh, yeah, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:44

think that's true. 69. So yeah, no, I think David Byrne is a perfect example. Because like, like what I'm talking about is like the kind of singers that when you hear them like they're unmistakable. And like, you know, that is that's typically a singer who like has something weird about their voice. And in the case of David bird, I would say he's got a warble. He's kind

Molly 47:02

of warble it. That's that what he does.

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:05

I mean, I don't think that's the only thing that makes him unique, but when I think David Byrne and like how do I know that it's David Byrne right away. He's got a warble.

Molly 47:12

What is the warbles? Like do it for me?

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:14

I don't I don't think I you know he like adjust. Adjust isn't the right word, but he glides between pitch and like like warbles off pitch in a very characteristic way. Um so like so this say no potty this say no disco, you know, you see so there's there's a lot of notes in there that kind of aren't really notes, but sound great. Like not it didn't sound great when I did it. But when he does it,

Molly 47:40

no, no, I can't. That's so interesting. I wouldn't have called that a warble. But I know what you mean. I think warboys

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:46

like the technical term for that. There's probably some technical term but that's that's what I hear.

Molly 47:51

Yeah. Okay. Well, this has been a fun side note. It is. Okay. So what do we call this segment? Oh, were we were we keeping that in the show? Oh, I thought. Oh, okay. Great. Well, that was really interesting. I think our listeners will enjoy that.

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:05

I think some of them will. Alright. Okay. Our producer is Abby circuit tele. And she can decide whether to keep that new untitled segment or not.

Molly 48:13

Yeah. And you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts as always,

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:18

and you can. I think I was gonna say it again. I think it says very good hook up with other people who liked the show. At reddit.com/are/everything spilled milk. It is a dating site for and just like no strings attached hookup site for spilled milk fans. It's actually just a nice place to talk about the show with other people who listened to the show. And like whatever else happens, like that's your business.

Molly 48:41

Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you.

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:45

So wait, we like I know. I know. I know. We're just one more thing. Like we don't we're not like like the biggest podcast around but we like we have a fair number of listeners and you know, they communicate with each other. Like do you think to listen spilled milk listeners have ever actually hooked up? Like who met who met like, because they both

Molly 49:06

show? There's a part of me that's like, there's no way that has actually happened? Because I think they would have told us

Matthew Amster-Burton 49:12

that. Yeah, we would have told us in great detail.

Molly 49:16

Yeah, not only would we have wanted to know that it happened but we would have wanted the dirty deeds.

Matthew Amster-Burton 49:20

Okay, so but if like you know, if we missed this somehow get in touch contact at spilled milk podcast.com

Molly 49:26

Thank you for listening to spilled milk, your source for decoctions

Matthew Amster-Burton 49:30

infusions, and contusions, dental things and dental things. I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.

Molly 49:38

I'm Molly Weissenberg.