541: Mangoes

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:04

I'm Molly And I'm Matthew and

Molly 0:05

this is spilled milk the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:11

now usually we record the show at like 9:30am but today we need to we had to get started a little early at like 9am And it sounds like we're starting at like 4am

Molly 0:21

It's amazing how off we are. It's like have you seen that show severance? No. Oh, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:27

heard like it's about like an evil corporation or something. Yeah,

Molly 0:31

yeah. So basically people have their memories split so they've got like an at work self at work memory and then like an at home

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:39

memories sci fi kind of show Oh, it's

Molly 0:41

real. It's not but it's really interesting, but I was just thinking that like maybe an hour at work selves only turn on at 930

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:49

That could be so let's see what happens like 15 minutes from now. Yeah, suddenly the show's gonna get a lot more corporate it's

Molly 0:56

I can't wait. Okay. Oh, are we gonna start making a lot more money

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:59

than to yes but but through dastardly means.

Molly 1:02

Oh, I love it when you talk about dastardly mean.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:06

Yes through. Well, we'll have we'll learn filthy luchar Oh,

Molly 1:11


Matthew Amster-Burton 1:11

I like to keep up on all the latest.

Molly 1:13

Yes. This is great. I love your new hat. Have you been to the haberdasher?

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:18

I have been to the haberdasher. Yes, they they made me tell them my hat size and they used a lot of mercury while making the hat I'm not sure

Molly 1:28

what for haberdashery hat making

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:31

I think millenary hat making but haberdashery like there's there's some overlap making of accessories. I think it is yeah,

Molly 1:40

but tell me really what's haberdashery.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:42

I don't know. I think I think it's like men's clothing in general. But with an emphasis on hats. I'm just big. It's like it's running any kind of store while drinking mercury. Okay. So yeah, so So, like desperate. We're doing dastardly deeds we Yeah, you know the phrase Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap. Yeah, that's not our company. We charge a lot.

Molly 2:05

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, today we're talking about mangoes. Yes, yes. Okay. So, yeah, today we're talking about mangoes. We are recording this in late March. But you're going to be listening to this in early May. And I know that's a secret I'm not always supposed to give away. But what I wanted to say is that all of this is going to be great mango season. Yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:25

It's an exciting time to eat a mango.

Molly 2:28

It's an exciting time to drink mercury. Yeah, okay, so Matthew, I remember first encountering the idea of mango. Okay, when my dad whose accomplishments I usually would list at this point in the show, I'm gonna let you do it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:45

He's a he's a the invented Altoids. He's an N dive man. That's all I remember that

Molly 2:51

me too. Okay. Anyway, he's also a mango man. Okay, he went to the Safeway at Cassidy square, which may have at that point have already become homeland. Alright, anyway,

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:02

wait when they hired Claire Danes. Yes, I love that. Like I try and do like one thing about a show cuz I've never seen that show. What

Molly 3:12

about Mandy Patinkin? I can't believe you left man.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:16

I literally think about

Molly 3:18

Mandy Patinkin is like strangely sexy on that show.

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:21

Like I think he always is. Really? Yeah, I

Molly 3:23

mean, what about is Inigo Montoya? Yeah, of course. Really? Yeah. Okay. All right. I guess you'd like men with a with a purpose. Men with a mission

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:32

and vengeance vague accent is the main thing. Okay. Okay. Anyway,

Molly 3:36

my dad wants to add vengeance. My dad once came home from Safeway slash homeland. With a mango. It will talk a little bit more about what type I think it might have been. But I remember he was really excited about this because being a dive man, right. He had encountered interesting fruits and vegetables somehow previously in his life. Oh, yeah. And he was excited that this was available in our rinky dink grocery store in Oklahoma City. Oh,

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:04

no, I totally get that. Like I am definitely also the kind of person who like we live I live in central Seattle and like there's our grocery stores have like a lot of stuff from all over the world. But like anytime I see a new thing like I will I will bring it home. Like like some sort of conquering hero.

Molly 4:20

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. This is the job of of the of the man like like some sort of conquering haberdasher. Yes, exactly. Anyway, and I remember being as excited about the mango as he was and that was the first time I thought about a mango.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:35

Okay, what if our new business like we just hit the corporate our whatever our new business was, you know how like, there's, like you listen to podcasts and there's a ad for like, we'll send you like a bunch of clothes in a box and like keep what you want. What if we did that but only hats like we say like five hats a month in a box like really expensive hats.

Molly 4:53

Do you think that there's something like this for like, ridiculously wealthy people?

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:59

That That's just hats. Or maybe Oh,

Molly 5:03

I bet there's something like this in the UK like rent a fascinator or something. Oh, I think there's definitely rent a fascinator. You know, but there must also be something for like the dashing American man.

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:14

You know what I bet they have in England and they should have it here too. This is going to be our new business. Okay. I'm like, yeah, there's like a royal wedding. I guess they don't do those very often. Hmm. Yeah, they should do it more often. If you do royal weddings more often. That's gonna be step one. Okay, step two, like whatever hats you see. Or like other like striking garments at the royal wedding. We'll send you like copies of all of those. No, whoa, yes. And, and you keep all of them and you pay us a lot. Yes. And then next month, there'll be another like contrived royal wedding and we'll do it again. Great. Charge you like $250

Molly 5:48

Okay, okay, terrific. Okay, what about the first time you had a mango?

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:52

Um, so I don't necessarily remember the first time I had a mango but like the things that I remember from my memory lane are like seeing someone I think probably on TV like turn cut a mango and then turn it inside out.

Molly 6:04

So that all the do you think this would have been the early days of the Food Network?

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:08

It might have been the early days of the food now network, but I definitely knew that mangoes existed before I ever watched Food Network.

Molly 6:14

That's true. Network. You're old. So food, right?

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:17

Wildlife? Yep. Net food work. You could tell it's it's like corporate our Where were you where we turned into our work selves, right? Net food work. Like in 98 when we when we moved to New York, so I would have been like the ripe age of 2322. Yes, right.

Molly 6:38

You were right. Yeah. Were you starting to get a little bit like did you yield to gentle pressure on your skin like, people kept coming

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:47

up to me and like pushing on my neck? Because they they heard that like you should check the neck for ripeness. Okay. And I was I was there for it, man. Like I was I was like, my first time living in the big city. I wanted all the neck action I could get Yes. And so but then like, the first time I remember really eating and enjoying a band go was in Thailand.

Molly 7:10

Did you see a band go? We are really short circuiting. Someone did the severance procedure a little wrong.

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:20

I mean, like who doesn't enjoy a good band go. So I was in Thailand, probably in the year 2000 wife the show Laurie and I went to Bangkok and in Bangkok. I mean, we had, you know mango with sticky rice. Oh, yeah, restaurant, which is fantastic dessert. But also like on the street. You'll see like street vendors in Thailand who have like a cart that is made of Plexiglas so you can see through it and see like which fruits they have. So they'll have like mango papaya, other fruits. And they will cut it up like when you order it and put it in a plastic bag and optionally add chili and salt, like dried dried red chili and salt. Which is so good. This had never occurred to me as a combination before this. Like, you know, I had not ever heard of like talking before, right? And it was like I would every time I saw it, I would buy it. It was so good.

Molly 8:12

This reminds me of yeah, I've encountered similar things in Mexico. And I remember when June was little, and we were at one of the like local lakes around here. There was a family next to us who had brought mangoes and tie in and they were just sitting there like feasting. June was watching them like so. covetously wanting these mango. Yeah. Anyway, these people they were doing it

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:40

right. Yeah. All right. So let's, let's talk about what a mango is great, because you did the research and I don't know indeed. Okay, so we can dig in any time. We can. But let's wait. Okay.

Molly 8:52

We're sitting here in front with two bowls, three bowls of mangoes in front of us and we're not eating them. Alright, me Mango.

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:00

Mango. Alright,

Molly 9:02

so would you would you pronounce the the Latin name of this thing? Manga for indica. Excellent. Commonly known as mango is a species of large flowering fruit tree and get this is capable of growing to 100 feet tall,

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:17

but only if it really believes in itself. It doesn't drink coffee.

Molly 9:20

That's right. The trunk can grow to 12 feet in circumference, I don't think is maybe that big now that I wrote it down because circumference, right? I mean, how many feet in circumference or weight? And then you think wow,

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:32

that's yeah, that's a good question. Because like, like, they're the ratio like looks smaller than it is. Yeah. Like it's the the ratio of the circumference to the diameter is pi, right? So if we divide, if we divide 12 feet by three, then four feet in diameter, so yes, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's that's pretty that's a fixer on thick trunk.

Molly 9:53

Okay, so this tree was domesticated separately in South Asia and Southeast Asia. Okay. and sort of the genetic remnants of those two lines still exist in modern mangoes, okay? Mangoes have since been introduced to other warm regions of the world. A lot of the mangoes that we get in the states were grown in Mexico, Peru, also in the States, I should say. Yeah, people have been talking about mangoes for a long time in the Western world. Linnaeus describe the species in 1753. Okay, did I pronounce his name right? Yeah, I haven't talked about him in a long time.

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:31

No, but it's been a while since we've had Linnaeus on the show. We should We should like get in touch with his people.

Molly 10:36

We should do you think that he might be able to recommend a haberdasher?

Matthew Amster-Burton 10:39

I think it might. It's like it sounds based on his name because because like he made up this name sort of because his real name was Carlin a and he called himself Carolus Linnaeus to be fancy. So it sounds like a real like Nasseri regular. Oh,

Molly 10:53

yeah. Oh, yeah. Anyway, the mango is the national fruit of India, Pakistan and the Philippines and is the National Tree of Bangladesh.

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:01

Yet when I think about mangoes, like I think of mangoes as being like synonymous with India.

Molly 11:06

Yes. Well, Matthew, did you know that there are somewhere between 283 and 1000 types of mangoes in India alone, depending on which Wikipedia entry you look at.

Matthew Amster-Burton 11:17

I mean that 283 is kind of weirdly specific.

Molly 11:20

But then yeah, Wikipedia, come on. Now, like get consistent. I found so many different numbers for how many types of mangoes there are in India. But however you slice it, that's a lot of mangoes. And we're gonna get to how to slice a manga. Anyway, so today, we're only going to be talking about a few types, I think like five or six types, and I've chosen them because they're the ones most commonly available in the US market. Certainly, if you live in South Asia, or Southeast Asia, you probably have encountered many more varieties. Most of the information that I'm going to share today comes from the website of the National mango board like that, which was really fun to navigate and quite enjoyable. And maybe they should sponsor this show so that I can get a new hat. Yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:06

But they like they will send you a hat with with like the slogan of national mango board on it. Yeah, is gotta try them. Bang goes.

Molly 12:20

All right, so Matthew, I want to start out by talking about the mango that that really has, at least taken over my local grocery store in recent years. Yeah. Which is the Tulfo mango which is also known as the honey mango. Also known as a honey Manila mango. I've heard all known as a champagne mango. It's it's on what do

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:44

you think they didn't call the champagne go? Right. Yeah,

Molly 12:47

I mean, like they've got the sweet Tango app. Right? They say Good point. Like a champagne go mango. Yes, you have a champagne go mango. Anyway, okay. You may know it as the honey mango, the honeymoon Illa mango, the champagne mango or the Tulfo? Mango? Am I pronouncing that right? At au LF? Oh, these are the small, smaller than other ones. Sort of golden yellow ones. They get more golden as they ripen. Sometimes they look a little wrinkly on the outside when they're really right. Yeah. And at the time of year that we are recording this. So march into April. These babies are in abundance at our local grocery

Matthew Amster-Burton 13:29

store. Yeah, I like on the agenda. You describe them as sometimes comma shaped. Yeah. Which is true. Like they sound like have like a little a little curve at the end. And I imagine if you had four of them, you could use them as quotation marks.

Molly 13:41

Yes, yes. Right. I mean, I did see on the national mango board they describe these and some other mangoes as being sigmoid shaped. Oh, I like that, right? I mean, but I had to spend too long thinking about what that meant. So I decided to go with more like a coma shape, which to me, sigmoid implies like S shaped Is it because like as far as like a Six Sigma?

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:03

I was thinking of like shaped like a lowercase sigma, which is like,

Molly 14:07

what's the lowercase sigma? I don't know. I'm only picturing a capital sigma.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:11

Is it? What does it capital sigma look like?

Molly 14:13

I don't want to say it on the air in case I get it wrong.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:15

Okay, let's sure we got a pants and we can draw what we think they look like. No. Okay,

Molly 14:20

this one are far more boring.

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:24

No, no. People have been asking for this for a while it's each each week we're gonna choose a Greek letter and say what we think it looks like except that word will be too scared to give our opinion

Molly 14:35

back in December in January, we were talking about Omicron

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:38

That's right. Yeah, I forgot the Greek letters turned evil.

Molly 14:41

Yeah. Okay. Anyway, um, so yeah, these these mangoes are kind of small. They're kind of a flattened oblong shape compared to some other mangoes which are more like round or not spherical, but like, plump an oval. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 14:55

I mean, although every every mango is is like a little bit flattened.

Molly 14:59

I No no about that. Dude, we are going to get here in a minute.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:03

You're right. I just realized I'm speaking about like three different mangoes that I've met.

Molly 15:07

Yes. Okay, well, I'm gonna maybe introduce you to a fourth except he's not here today, but I'm going to talk about mine website just rang the bowl. Come to order up, it's time for our corporate selves. No, we already did that.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:22

No, no, that's, uh, you have to you have to like Ring Ring the bowl to invite them in.

Molly 15:27

Anyway, what I really like about the Tulfo mango is that it has a smooth flesh with not a lot of fibers. Because you know, you're want to say something.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:38

Yeah, some some people, like have strong opinions on whether corporations are people. But what about our corporations vampires. Like could we all could we all like settle on that as a compromise?

Molly 15:49

Oh, yeah, I think they are vampire. Like, what I really like about this mango is that it has very few fibers. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because the next mango we're going to talk about has a lot of fibers.

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:01

Because I think like I think of the Tulfo champagne mango as kind of like a Honeycrisp apple.

Molly 16:07

Now isn't even a very good one. By the way. It's a little a little green tasting at the beginning.

Matthew Amster-Burton 16:13

But even so, it's got what what I always call like the diesel flavor of mangoes. It smells smells a little bit like It's like like the gas at a truck stop. And in a good way because like I like that smell. The thing about these is like it's I say they're like Honeycrisp apples not because they like have like the flavor or texture or appearance of honey crisp apples, but because like the most popular mango for a long time, which we're going to talk about in detail. Kind of sucks. Yeah, and that way in the same way that a red delicious apple kind of sucks. And then suddenly along comes like, you know what if there was a mango, that was good, and everyone's like, Okay, well we'll get that one.

Molly 16:50

And now that is what we have decided that the Ataulfo mango is at its best. It's very good. Yes. You know, I have always felt that mangoes had a vaguely dusty flavor or like a dusty texture. And this this you know, honey mango situation has a smaller quantity of that than some of the other mangoes that we're going to talk about. But still anyway, so I think that most of our listeners are probably familiar with this guy. Yeah, I think so. And I should say the terms. The term champagne mango, and I'm guessing also maybe honey mango. These things came about as like marketing terms. Oh, of course. Yeah. Just just clarifying. You know, Matthew, I think that this one would have been better with like, One Day More ripening. Mm hmm. Maybe too.

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:37

Yeah, I think so. But I still like it. Me too. Okay,

Molly 17:40

so we're gonna get to the the Red Delicious of mangoes. Yeah, but on the way we're going to visit. Its progenitor? Is that the right term?

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:50

I think it is. Yeah.

Molly 17:51

Wow. Are we gonna talk about Punnett squares?

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:54

Let's talk about Punnett squares recently, we had a Yeah, like a long conversation as a family about the term ancestor. Ooh, yes. Okay, cuz I am sensing a shift in the meaning of the word ancestor to mean either a progenitor or a descendant. Like I think this start is like a mistake. But now like I hear it so so frequently and goes uncorrected. So I think the meeting is starting to

Molly 18:21

do that you hear people using ancestor to refer to like someone downstream.

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:27

So that like you know, some of this person living today is an ancestor of George Washington meaning that George Washington was their ancestor that it can that it can go Whoa, no, I never heard that. No, no as so like, you know, as as like a grumpy middle aged person like, oh, that sounds wrong to me, but it's starting to sound like borderline acceptable to me. All the time.

Molly 18:48

I have never heard it before. You have to start sending me examples of this in print.

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:52

I will start texting you know, actually, I'm going to clip it out of the newspaper like like a grandma and mail it.

Molly 18:57

Yes, I want to see this because I mean, it. I don't I never took Latin, despite my excellent pronunciation of Linnaeus. Yeah, that's true. I never took Latin but I'm guessing that ancestor that the and there is related to like anti diluvian anti pardon. Wow, is it I think you're

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:17

probably right. Does it have to do with like, before, so smart, but that doesn't mean that the meaning can't shift in English?

Molly 19:25

No. Wait, I don't like this.

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:29

And to me to be clear, this is something that I've only heard in spoken language not written. Okay. So but okay, I will still send you examples as I encountered what

Molly 19:38

I thought you were going to say is that there I do think that there is sort of a broadening there are now like kind of spiritual ancestors that people talk about every bit as much as actual Yeah, but I don't think that's new. That's not new. No.

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:52

Okay. So let's talk about the spiritual ancestor of mango. Okay.

Molly 19:57

All right. So another type of mango that is is very prevalent is the Hayden mango and this is the mango that actually in the early 1900s Like started the large scale mango industry in the US.

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:11

So like a mango came to Florida and like got up behind a podium and was like That's right. I'm here. That's right.

Molly 20:18

Grow me. Yeah, no so the hidden mango is named for a man named Jack Hayden. Who in 1902 in Coral Gables Florida I guess grew this thing from grew this tree

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:31

is actor Thomas Haden Church like an heir to the Hayden mango fortune.

Molly 20:35

Yeah, that's where he got his good looks that smooth skin of the the mango.

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:41

Just you have smooth skin. I think it was being more rugged.

Molly 20:45

Maybe when that when he first started out in Star Wars, he was helping more baby faced,

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:50

was he was he in Star Wars.

Molly 20:52

Come on, wasn't he it? Wasn't he Anna can Skywalker? No. Thomas Hayden.

Matthew Amster-Burton 20:58

Hayden Christian was in Star Wars. Are you talking about the guy from the movie Sideways and the show wings?

Molly 21:05

I don't know that. Was it Paul Giamatti and sideways?

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:11

Yes. Thomas Haden Church and Virginia Madsen and Sandra Oh, were the stars of the movie Sideways? Apparently the movie that I know the most. I have seen that movie which I cannot say for most movies. Oh my god. That's the movie. Okay. Okay. A true story. Yeah, the movie that won Best Picture. I heard of that movie a day before the Oscars before that. I had never heard even the name

Molly 21:41

I heard of it two days before the Oscars because Ashwin and looked up the movies that were nominated for Best Film so that we could decide if we were going to watch any of them. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:52

and I mean, it sounds good. It does sound like I'm not gonna see power of the dog which sounds like it could be could not possibly be less my kind of

Molly 22:00

action. I the only the only Oscar nominated movie that we saw this year was power of the dog and I loved it. Okay. Okay, but you would hate it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:08

It sounds like a real cement garden to me.

Molly 22:11

Okay, all right, hang on, but I do want to say that you know Jack Hayden of Coral Gables, Florida. He didn't get this like mango seed from nowhere, right. So the Hayden mango which got its name in the US can be traced back to the Malga of our mal guava mango which is originally from Tamil Nadu India.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:30

So Did Did Thomas Haden Church go to to Tamil Nadu and like take a mango seed that is

Molly 22:37

exactly what stores this

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:44

I've not seen Star Wars in a while. Yeah, and that thanks for jogging my memory.

Molly 22:49

Okay. Anyway, most varieties of mangoes available in US grocery stores descend from Hayden mango.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:56

Okay, well, I

Molly 22:57

should have tried out using ancestor there.

Matthew Amster-Burton 22:59

I don't know that I've ever encountered a Hayden mango but I'd seems like I musta

Molly 23:05

but here's the thing Hayden mango looks almost exactly like what this one is. Yeah. Which is Hold on. Let me just say so Hayden mango, I think we can all I think the our original like probably most of us who are I don't know around my age. I'm 43 When I picture mango, at least until a couple years ago, what I would picture is what looks like a Hayden mango. Okay, so a little bigger than the Tulfo mango. Okay, say sort of medium to large, kind of a rounder oval shape and it's bright wet red with green and yellow overtones.

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:37

Okay, but that that sounds like the same as the Tommy Atkins mag.

Molly 23:41

Well, we're about to get there dude. Hang on. So the Hayden mango, the flesh has fibers. So it's not as like silky and dense seeming kind of as the the Tulfo mango. Anyway, here's the deal. So the hidden mango had a baby. Okay, so the Hayden mango, basically is the ancestor of the mango that you have been dying to talk about, which is the Tommy Atkins mango, also developed in the US. It was first grown in 1922 in Broward County, Florida, okay. By a dude named Thomas H. Atkins. Thomas Church. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Anyway, okay. So the Tommy Atkins mango, it grew from a Hayden mango seed. Okay. But for whatever reason, it had just a couple of key differences that made it particularly resilient when being shipped.

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:39

That's yeah, that's what the Tommy Atkins mango is all about. Yeah,

Molly 24:43

so the Tommy Atkins mango looks a lot like a hidden mango. It's got like really kind of red quality to it. Sometimes green and yellow overtones. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 24:54

I mean, it's a very good looking, gorgeous mango. I

Molly 24:57

mean, it is like, you know if you're going to do a steel Life with a mango. Yeah, I would choose a Tommy Atkins mango is there there's a mango emoji, right? I'm pretty sure. I don't know which one. Let's look up. We got to find out which one it is.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:10

All right, this is an iPhone. And oh, I like this. Yeah, I want to talk about my reaction to it because it's gonna be really interesting.

Molly 25:19

tastes a bit like a pineapple. Little bit like a pineapple. Little bit like,

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:23

I've completely forgotten how to use my phone. Just

Molly 25:26

text me something and look for a mango emoji.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:30

Okay, mango. I searched I search for Jeff's in fact. i What'd you know, gifts.

Molly 25:40

I love how you didn't want. So when I first got to Matthew's apartment this

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:46

morning, okay, look, it's totally a Tommy Atkins. Man. It is.

Molly 25:49

It's totally a Tommy Atkins mango. All right. Okay, everybody. So the time he Atkins mango was developed from a Hayden mango seed and the Tommy Atkins mango. The thing that is prized about it is its long shelf life and its ability to be transported without suffering too much.

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:07

The trade off is it will it lacks an ability to transport the eater.

Molly 26:11

Yes, except that I find this quite transportive Oh, hang on just a minute. So I'm pretty sure that this is the type that my dad brought home all those years. I'm sure it is. But when I first was reading up on mango types, I thought oh, my dad brought home a Hayden mango. But I'm now realizing that actually a lot of the Hayden mango industry in South Florida has been wiped out by hurricanes and by development, and so Tommy, Tommy Atkins is by by far, you know, more likely as Okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 26:42

so you know, first of all, I feel like this Tommy Atkins mango, like it's not terrible. Yeah, it is stringy Earth and the then the tall mango. And the flavor is less complex. And I would say like belongs in sort of a canned fruit cocktail. Like if you put this mango in a fruit cocktail. It would be right at home. Do you feel like your It tastes a little pineapple. It tastes a little pineapple. And what it reminds me of is I forgot to mention during memory lane that the first time I tried mango high Chu I was like, Oh, this is what a mango is supposed to taste like because mango haiku is so good. It really captures like the full range of labor. And but it's also very sweet because it's a candy and it's kind of like this Tommy Atkins Meg,

Molly 27:23

I think this Tommy Atkins mango is quite tasty, but it is. It pushes my like sweet and sour buttons, whereas the Tulfo even the like somewhat unripe Ataulfo that we're eating has much more like I'm not gonna say like a funky or flavor, but it has like depth to it. Yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:43

Where are your sweet and sour buttons located? Hold

Molly 27:45

on. Just all right. So the Tommy Atkins mango is the main mango that you're going to find for sale in any regions where mangoes have to be imported. I mean, mango. Yeah, yeah. So it makes up like 80% of the mangoes sold in the US and the UK for instance. Except if you're in like Hawaii, California, Florida, those places that grow mangoes right? Okay. Anyway, it's so you know, it looks a lot like a Hayden because it grew from a Hayden seed and I would like to share with you the infamous history of the Atkins Ganga

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:20

Yeah, I feel bad for Hayden on the Atkins manga Okay, here we go. Can I tell you one more thing before we started on the the infamous history, the dastardly deeds one thing I did like about this Tommy Atkins Van Gogh is that on the sticker it was imported from Mexico and it said Tommy Mexico. Like if someone has a nickname Tommy Mexico like that's a really solid name. Do

Molly 28:42

you think that he's like a cousin of like Tommy Bahama?

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:46

Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Like the like Tommy Bahama is mainland cousin. Yeah.

Molly 28:51

Okay. So this is from Wikipedia. The original Tommy Atkins tree reportedly grew from a Hayden seed planted around 1922 on the property of Thomas H. Atkins of Broward County, Florida. Later pedigree analysis supported the Hayden parentage. Okay. All right, so passed a paternity test then. Thomas Atkins submitted the fruit to the variety committee of the Florida mango forum multiple times during the 1950s, which rejected it due to its unremarkable eating qualities and considerable fiber in the flesh interested Okay. Atkins, however, felt strongly that the fruit had good commercial potential. Due to its color, strong and steady production, relatively good fungus resistance and good handling characteristics. He was able to market the fruit successfully to commercial growers, who began planting the cultivars during the 1950s. Thereafter Tommy Atkins became extremely popular as a commercial varieties eventually becoming the most commonly planted commercial mango in Florida, and later the most extensively planted in the Americas a position it still holds today. But this bums me out But this is a win for like commerce over flavor it is

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:03

and as as our corporate selves we believe in commerce over flavor. Oh, but I feel like now my like like my mind has undergone severance because I expected to really hate this. Yeah, no, I hate that. It's so now I don't know how I feel.

Molly 30:18

Well, I'm fascinated by like, what other things the Florida mango forum was tasting in the 1950s a really good set of shit. Like this was so

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:27

bad. And was Was this a good job? It seems like maybe it was like, people would just keep bringing you mangoes. Yeah, and you and probably you're you're you're sitting on the committee because you're the executive of some like mango cooperative really

Molly 30:40

wish that John McPhee had written a book called mangoes? Yeah, in addition to his classic oranges, which is about the orange industry in Florida. Oh, we should we should. Mangoes Yeah, it's

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:52

not too late. This is very old.

Molly 30:54

Okay. Yeah, I just feel like May we not be like Tommy Atkins? I mean, dude probably made a lot of money. But I want to I want to make flavor man.

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:06

Oh, interesting. We don't know like the corporate history of the Tulfo champagne mango because probably someone's making money and flavor off of this right?

Molly 31:15

Yeah, this one isn't very good, right?

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:18

I don't know like I think we need to stick with the idea of sending people weird hats in boxes. Like you know we got we have to focus

Molly 31:33

Alright, I'm going to mention briefly this one. Because the American or the National mango board says that it's out there. It's called the Francis mango. And its primary source country is Haiti and that is kind of like like wear it is known to grow almost exclusively I think that it is sometimes called the Madame Francis. I like that anyway, its coloration and shape is similar to a Tulfo mangoes but with green overtones. Okay? It is supposed to be like soft and juicy. And it does have fibers. So I wonder how the flavor compares to the Tulfo. But anyway, if you see a Francis mango out there, let us know. All right. Okay, so the mango that I'm most excited to talk about today, Matthew. All right, this next one, it's the kit mango.

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:18

I can't believe you're excited to talk about a mango. I've never heard

Molly 32:21

I'm really excited about this. So it's spelled K e i t t and I had never heard of this thing prior to last November when so my mom had a birthday and she wanted to go to Palm Springs to celebrate her birthday. So we went to Palm Springs to celebrate, celebrate. Yep, we got celebrate. Yeah, Palm Springs. Anyway, I have a friend Hannah Collette shout out to Hannah Colette, who lives like an hour's drive from Palm Springs. She live in Twentynine Palms, and she came to visit us one day in Palm Springs and brought all kinds of delicious things to eat, like really good dates, and like a delicious sparkling wine nice at anyway, Hannah also brought this gigantic mango. Okay, and she referred to it as a desert mango. I like that. It was big. It was really it was like, I don't know what we could compare this to.

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:16

I feel like like if I had like a like a girlfriend who lived in the desert, I would call her my desert mango. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I wish I had a girlfriend who lived in the desert. Okay,

Molly 33:27

anyway, but this thing was huge. And Hannah was very excited to have brought this for us. She lamented that it wasn't quite right. However, we ate the living daylights out of it. Anyway. I have since learned it's called a kit mango. And when I got back to Seattle, I started noticing them in stores here Okay, so anyway, um, you know, strangely so the national mango board says that the the peak season for them is like March to April and then also August and September. I have to say here in the Pacific Northwest, I saw them in the grocery stores in November and December okay. But anyway, this is a really much larger mango than other mangoes it stays green even when ripe. Alright, so for for ripeness you know you have to do it by field really but the thing is Matthew, you've eaten this mango before, because this is popular most popular view this mango right here in Asian countries where this is the mango type that is used in a green mango salad it is used in it's like mature green form for a lot of dishes want to taste some. Let's taste some Matthew What did this one look like? So well that's so good. So good. Okay, was this a big green mango?

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:43

No, it was a small green mango like it's small. I'll go get it.

Molly 34:46

Yeah, go get it. Hmm, interesting. I wonder what this one is. If it's just a small kit mango

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:51

because it's about the same size and shape as the Tommy Atkins but is it is green. And like when you buy a green mango like you need to you need to squeeze it in Make sure that it doesn't have any give because if it has any give then it's starting to ripen is not going to have that sourness that you're looking for. Right,

Molly 35:07

right. I don't know what this is. Maybe it's just a small small one. But anyway, um, wow, the kid mango is so delicious. Here's the thing. The flesh is firm, kind of like the Tulfo mango, although it doesn't really get quite as soft as the Ataulfo mango. And it has very few fibers and it's super juicy. It was so delicious. It was truly one of the highlights of my winter food experience.

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:39

I believe you didn't share 20 You didn't bring one you didn't share it with me he didn't call me again say come down to Palm Springs immediately there's a mango emergency was

Molly 35:46

so good. It was so good. Anyway, it's grown you know if you are over here in North America, it's grown in Mexico, Ecuador, Brazil and the US Okay, only maybe it's grown in California which is why Hannah called it a desert mango.

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:02

I will be on the lookout for Kitt

Molly 36:03

mango. Yeah. Anyway And then the last one which I wanted to mention because I think maybe some of our our East Coast listeners might encounter this more is that the Kent mango which was developed in Florida in the 1940s I think that we've all probably eaten a lot of these mangoes because they're best for juicing and drying. Oh, I

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:24

love dried mango. I didn't even think to put that on the agenda. Yeah, I yeah, like like Trader Joe's dried mango great.

Molly 36:30

So yeah, this is the can't mango these are also dark green and large like the kit mango. But they develop yellow dots are sort of yellow overtones as they ripen dots whereas the kit mango really stays very green. Okay, so anyway, yeah, these guys are these guys are really a winter cut. This almost makes me wonder says peak availability is January February and December makes me wonder if like, did the kit mango I was able to get in Seattle. Was that actually a Kent mango? That was mislabeled. I had it in December.

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:06

Did you did you get did you send it to 23 and mango to get to get CNA and if not, you'll never know.

Molly 37:13

Anyway. Um, yeah, so Matthew one thing I want to talk about though, because I you know, I'm really got I'm all fired up now is how we cut these things because the way that Hannah cut the kit mango was unlike any mango I had ever cut before. Okay, tell me about Okay, so you know how mangoes have this kind of like, like flat oblong seed in the middle, right? So when you cut them, I think pretty much every cutting method for mango I've ever encountered does the same thing in the beginning, which is you kind of cut off like a lobe on one side of the seed and a lobe on the other. Yes.

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:49

Oh, but I've seen like a mango slicer. Yeah. Which is the same principle but like does it all at once. Yeah, I don't know if that's a good tool or not.

Molly 37:56

I did see those on the national mango website. Anyway, so what Hanna did next with the kit mango, which again is a little firmer than these other ones that we've been eating. She then took like that lobe and cut it into thin slices, like maybe quarter inch thick slices. I said okay, then you could like pick up you know, each slice was was maybe like seven inches long. And you could just pick it up and eat it almost like you would eat like a very thin wedge of watermelon. It was delightful, because you didn't need a fork or whatever. I think it would be trickier with a juicy or like softer mango to eat it that way. Yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:39

I like the idea though. Oh, it was delightful. Mango is a is a sensuous fruit. It is a sensuous like you want to you want to like get your hands on it. We're eating it with a fork, which is non essentialist Do

Molly 38:51

you ever like pick up the pit of a really good mango? And like not on the pitch?

Matthew Amster-Burton 38:55

I do? Yes. Like the sides where you didn't get enough off when you were like doing like the sides of the seed? Absolutely.

Molly 39:02

I've never I've watched somebody else do that. But I've never done a video Yeah, I like cam.

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:09

Yeah. Mango cam. Anyway. Where are we? So

Molly 39:14

how can you cut the lobes off right? And

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:17

then what do you do with the lobes with the lobes? I usually cut like a you know lattice pattern into the flesh and then scoop it out with a spoon and I tried to do that with this Tommy Atkins mango and it did not work very well because I didn't cut far enough into the skin area.

Molly 39:34

I usually I think of this as like the hedgehog ing method, but you don't do the full hedgehog.

Matthew Amster-Burton 39:41

Right? That hedgehog ing definitely sounds it sounds like like a like a sexual term they would use in England that like somehow people are really into this.

Molly 39:51

Okay, well what I mean by hedge hugging is you cut that like grid pattern into the flesh of the lobe. And then you kind of turn it inside out so that It kind of hedgehogs like it's Yeah, pokey. But the the pokes are mango cubes. No, and it looks really cool. And June finds this magical kids love it except like, wow, June needs a lot of practice doing this because it requires more dexterity than then sure one would think but anyway. Yeah, so that is my preferred method usually is to Yeah, to do the hedgehog. But yeah, where it differs from your method is that I use a knife to cut the cubes off the flesh and you used a spoon to scoop. Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:32

and I think like when I do it, like within a taco mango and like I do cut through far enough it works. Well.

Molly 40:37

Yeah, I believe it especially with a mango like this that is, like dense and not

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:42

too fibrous. And it's satisfying to like, feel the spoon kind of dig against the skin from the inside. Well, it's

Molly 40:48

a similar thing to avocados. Yeah, I mean, you can do the same thing with avocado.

Matthew Amster-Burton 40:52

Yeah, I mean, I don't I wouldn't touch on avocado fats, right. Okay. But it's very similar. Yes.

Molly 40:58

When you're cutting the lobes off, do you then cut the like a little strip off all the way around the yet as well. And

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:07

usually there's not there's not a whole lot of flesh there. But it's enough to make it worth it.

Molly 41:11

I agree. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:12

agree. Okay, sometimes I will

Molly 41:14

just know that off. Okay. What about the skin? Do you do you eat the skin?

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:18

No. Does it anybody?

Molly 41:19

I don't know. But I don't think it hurts you. But I was just wondering if you were like, my niece, Hillary, who at least as of like nine years ago, when she briefly lived with us while she was going to massage school. She would eat an entire apple, like core seeds and all and just spit out the core and seeds.

Matthew Amster-Burton 41:39

But like she would years ago, there was this thing where like, if you eat an apple from the bottom, you can eat the whole thing. And I tried it and it sort of works. But then I felt weird about it. Why does it matter where you're starting from? It shouldn't and I don't think it does. I think it's just like a trick to get people to eat apple cars.

Molly 41:57

I'm gonna take this over. Okay, Matthew, do you ever cook with these

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:01

things? No, I never have I've never even made a mango salsa, which I know was big in the 80s

Molly 42:07

knowing. I remember maybe in the late 90s I remember. When I when I was in California for college and I lived close to my mom's sister. I remember her being in a period of making mango salsa. Yeah, that was definitely a thing. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. mango salsa with with fish. Oh, absolutely. Big thing.

Matthew Amster-Burton 42:26

Yes. Now I know. I know. Like grilled mango is a thing that is done. I don't think I've ever had it.

Molly 42:31

I don't think I've had it either. I went to I went to Hawaii for the first time last fall and went to a restaurant where I wound up like ordering whatever the special was of the day, whatever. Like the fresh catch was, and it was some fish that I now can't remember. Served with in like on a like a mango puree and I hated that. Okay, I did not like that. But that is not reflective of the mango. You know? Who wants a sweet fruit?

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:01

Know that I fish as as like a very 80s Yeah, early 90s thing.

Molly 43:08

Yeah. So you know, of course though, there's green mango salad, which you and I both love.

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:13

Love it. Yeah, Vietnamese style or Thai style. Like it's said it's gonna be like slivers of green mango, usually with a fish sauce based and live juice based dressing. So good.

Molly 43:22

Huh? What about mango chutney? I mean, especially like jarred mango cherry. Yeah, right. Okay, delicious. But yeah, most of the time I just buy mango and eat them like I think

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:31

it's it's a thing where like, you know, with like strawberries, like if you have good strawberries, like there's nothing that you want to do with them more than just like eat them and get like strawberry stains all over yours.

Molly 43:41

I agree. I agree. I don't even tend to like put them in smoothies or something. I don't

Matthew Amster-Burton 43:47

put them in smoothies either. I was just thinking of like smoothies. We've talked about this. Like then I got rid of my blender and stopped making smoothies. And things have been very different since things have

Molly 43:56

been so different. What else? I mean, I truly love mango. I eat a lot of mangoes when you know when there's an abundance of mangoes whenever I see mangoes relatively cheap. Well, great. I think this was our mango episode. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 44:11

think it was two like we're still the jury's still out but like they're deliberating.

Molly 44:16

Okay. Well,

Matthew Amster-Burton 44:18

let's move on to segments. Okay, do we have any spilled mail we do

Molly 44:29

so this one is from listener Carla. Listener Carla says hi hosts Matthew and Molly. I listened to Episode 531 Caesar salad over the weekend and found myself shouting Wendy's still has baked potatoes at my phone. Then I worried or do they further research

Matthew Amster-Burton 44:47

imagine was there Carla on the bus shouting or do they?

Molly 44:55

Further research shows that yes, Wendy's does still carry baked potatoes five version's in fact, so if you had to order one of these baked potatoes from Wendy's, which would it be? I love this listener ma'am. All right in cheese plate order Carla has assembled these and cheese plate order. Oh, right. Number one. Plain baked potato. Okay, okay. Number two cheese, three sour cream and chive for bacon cheese. Five chili cheese.

Matthew Amster-Burton 45:23

Plain. Just kidding. I'm gonna go with cheese. I'll give you a chili cheese

Molly 45:27

for sure. When you turned it up to five. Oh, yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 45:31

like I go. I go when it comes to big potatoes. I will go to 11.

Molly 45:35

Wow. listener, Karla says the last time I ordered a baked potato from Wendy's. You could still get a broccoli and cheese potato. It's been a minute. Okay. Gosh, this makes me want to go to when do you get a baked potato?

Matthew Amster-Burton 45:47

Craving Wendy's so bad. Like, one thing I'm curious about is, is whether rampid inflation and supply chain issues have been affected the four for four or whether it's still the best deal in all of capitalism?

Molly 46:00

You could go find out today I could.

Matthew Amster-Burton 46:03

Wow, I could do that. You think I'm gonna do that? Ah, okay,

Molly 46:07

that sounds great. Okay, it is my week to do now. But wow.

I got to say, I was thinking as I drove over here this morning, because I listened to an audio version of this thing I'm about to recommend. And I was thinking about how I wanted to describe it. And you know what I wanted? I want to do something a little unusual. I want to say just trust me on this one. Oh, I'm not gonna describe it. All right. All right. This is an article published in the New York Times Magazine, by the writer Wesley Morris, and it's called My moustache myself. And a lot of our listeners have probably already read this. It was also it also aired on the daily around the same time it came out. Both of these were in October 2020. So long time ago, I was reminded of it recently because I was taking a workshop in which somebody referred to this as an example of a particular type of writing structure. Sure. And anyway, maybe get it out and listen to it again and start from the mustache and work outwards. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Anyway, Wesley Morris does the audio, which you can listen to on the daily, he reads so well. I mean, it's no wonder I mean, the man has done a lot of audio work. But anyway, more than anything, I think this is just a fantastic piece of cultural criticism blended with personal sort of archaeology. It's an exploration of, of blackness, through the lens of this guy's mustache.

Matthew Amster-Burton 47:47

Okay, I get it. I'm gonna reread it because I read it when it first came out. And I enjoyed it very much, but I haven't thought about it since then. So well.

Molly 47:53

So that's my mustache myself by Wesley Morris as published in the New York Times Magazine in October 2020. And we'll link to it in the show notes.

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:01

Our producer who drops by in the middle of every episode is Abby sercotel.

Molly 48:05

Indeed, you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and you

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:09

can talk to other people who listen to the show at reddit.com/are/everything spilled milk. It's a it's a nice little community.

Molly 48:17

Indeed. You can get your baked potato at Wendy's. Ah, the five the five options. Yep, the five options. You can cut up your mango using a hedgehog or a scoop.

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:26

Yep, those are the two tools. Yep. And until next time, thanks for listening to spilled milk. I'm Matthew your desert girlfriend.

Molly 48:34

And I'm haberdasher. I forgot if it was okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 48:46

so, producer Abby came to us with a warning that if you eat too many mangoes, you will get mango fever and your feet get soft.

Molly 48:53

But to be clear and not like like dermatologically soft like, like so soft that maybe it's like you have no bones.

Matthew Amster-Burton 49:01

Oh, like the boneless feet. But also to be clear. This is not true. Yeah, no

Molly 49:04

man producer Abby does not believe this. She knew someone who used to claim that this was this was what happened. Producer Abby may cut this part of the show even