Hey! Today we're punchy as we debate moisture levels and encounter water buffalos, naked chefs and bears. Hey! We have errands to run and whey baths to avoid as we pull and lop, pull and lop. Hey!
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Molly 0:00
Hi. I'm Molly. And I'm Matthew and this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and eat a lot of cheese.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:11
And today we are talking about mozzarella.
Molly 0:14
That's right. We are talking about both low moisture mozzarella, which is also the kind of use for grading or shredding. Sure. And we're talking about fresh mozzarella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:24
Are we talking about no moisture? mozzerella that's just like a fine powder.
Molly 0:30
I bet that exists. Like dusting powder, I think for dusting your furniture for Oh yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:37
like dusting dusting powder like Amelia but Delia with you? Yes. That is literally the only context in which I've ever heard the term dusting out. I
Molly 0:46
remember an adult in my life who I will not name Okay, who worked for a very wealthy person. And for Christmas one year, what she was given by this person was some sort of scented dusting powder. Wow. And she was like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:01
Why do you press on that? Thanks a lot Robert De Niro said.
Molly 1:08
Anyway, I think many of us in the US think of mozzarella primarily in the low moisture form the grading form but in Italy in Europe, and I don't know maybe elsewhere in the world. mozzerella is sort of first and foremost, the fresh stuff.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:21
Yeah, although I mean, like fresh mozzarella, like not only had a moment but like has hung on at least in some form. Because like suddenly you learned about comprise a salad and like pizza Margherita.
Molly 1:34
But do you think that like you know, if you just like stood at the top of a skyscraper in somewhere in the US and just yelled mozzerella What do you think?
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:45
Yeah, they're picturing like a ball of low moisture mozzarella.
Molly 1:50
Oh, I was thinking they were they were picturing a pile of shredded low moisture mozzarella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:54
They're probably picturing a pile of shredded cheese. I'm often picturing that
Molly 1:59
me too. You know, this was a this is as good a time as any to do memory lane.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:03
It's a great time to do memory lane. Let's do it. So I think that I first learned we're kind of hopped up and punchy. Today we are, I think, usually like we tape after lunch. And usually I'm like, it's it's time for my nap. But let's do the show. Anyway.
Molly 2:16
I think it's because we're in a little bit of a hurry. We actually have other things to do this afternoon.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:20
Yeah, like we don't have time to spend with you the listener we got important stuff to do. Anyway, like go to the bank and
Molly 2:28
like, I gotta Oh, I got to drop off a roll of film.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:32
Like for real? For real? Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay, here we go. You finally got that time machine we're always talking about and this is your one use of the time machine.
Molly 2:41
That's right. Okay, here we go. photo mat. So I think that like a lot of people in the US I first encountered fresh mozzarella when Capris a salad became a thing I think meat in the 90s
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:55
I don't think I would have liked it at first because like I'm still I'm still a little bit shaky on the on the topic of raw tomatoes. But like I like if it's a good Capris a salad I'm certainly down for that now but I certainly like the the aesthetic of it.
Molly 3:09
I don't know if I remember that about you and raw tomatoes. Yeah. Like
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:12
I don't love them. Is it the the like always the texture, right? Like whenever someone doesn't like something? Sure, sure. Like I don't like I don't like I was sure but it's mostly the texture. That's right.
Molly 3:23
That's right. That's I was looking for an example and thanks for providing
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:28
like making things a little too real.
Molly 3:31
Thank you the next like encounter with mozzarella that stands out to me. And I mean, obviously I'm ignoring like all the mozzarella ate on pizza growing up.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:40
Yeah, but we will talk about that a
Molly 3:42
little bit. We will. I remember when I worked at Whole Foods. When I was in college, and I worked at the prepared foods counter. We had some sort of like smoked mozzarella pasta salad, and it was made with like pen a regatta J and there were like hunks of smoked mozzarella and spinach people loved this stuff. Sure. And I hated the smell of it. I don't think I ever even like deigned to taste it like I don't like the smell of smoked cheeses.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:13
Yeah, I don't love them like I'm not going to seek out a smoked cheese although I do like the road Creamery smoky blue I do enjoy that one not a not a mozzarella you know what I just realized that I love maybe we've made we've observed this before like you i and wife at the show Laurie all have a thing we can say like when I worked at such and such which did not like take up a long period of our lives but but like was a huge repository of like formative experiences and stories retell stories take time so like you worked at Whole Foods. She worked at Dairy Queen and I worked at sur le taobh. Oh, this is great. Yeah, like my I think my experience was the most limited. I think I like worked there for like a total of like two or three months.
Molly 4:54
Okay, I worked there for two summers. Yeah, and then like one Christmas or something But yeah, actually I just yesterday went down a little bit of an Memory Lane and Instagram rabbit hole, Googling the super hot lesbian who like asked me out.
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:13
Oh yeah, I remember this story from your book.
Molly 5:15
That's right from the fixed stars and how confused I was. I mean, I'm still just puzzling over what was actually going on there. But I do find I did. I did. Yeah, I found her. She's still out there. Good. Yeah, yeah. After that, I had a really interesting sort of new experience with mozzarella on my honeymoon with brands. Okay. Sounds hot, right?
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:39
I can't wait. So cheese melted of its own accord. We
Molly 5:43
went to Vancouver Island. And we went to
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:46
right because we because we were like, ran into you or like, met up with you like
Molly 5:50
on the way back? Yeah. So we went to this place called Fairbairn farm, which was like an Agriturismo kind of thing. Yeah, it's no longer open, I don't think but it was in a town called Duncan. BC they had
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:03
a name for the King killed by Macbeth. I saw Macbeth yesterday.
Molly 6:07
Okay, they had water buffalo and they made buffalo milk mozzarella on site.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:13
I did not get buffalo mozzarella for today. That's fine.
Molly 6:16
It's it's very expensive in the States. I remember. That was just really cool. It was my first time ever seeing a water buffalo. Maybe my only time it was. Yes. It's so cute. Yes. These kind of purple tongues. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh my gosh. And then I'll talk about this later. But in 2009 I was invited to go on a press trip to Southern Italy to Naples and Capri and Ischia. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:44
remember this. I was jealous at the time and remains.
Molly 6:47
Yeah, I'm jealous of myself, because I feel that it was wasted on me. If you had a time machine. Would you go just go back and do that? Absolutely. Absolutely. Anyway, one of the things that we
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:57
dropped off your film on the way
Molly 7:00
that we did was we were piled on a bus and driven from Naples to like Caserta or something, which is an area of compania Okay, and it is an area that's well known for mozzarella di bufala Oh, yeah, whatever.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:14
It's like a mozzarella is like a southern Italian. That's right. Okay. And I Matthew we've got some pictures here and I noticed you put pictures in our agenda which I've never seen these before pictures that I took. So it is this is this like rope here cheese. I'm gonna explain this Okay, later. All right. Yeah. And then there's a thing that looks like a player
Molly 7:35
piano so that was pretty cool. I got to go to a place where they actually make buffalo milk mozzarella and watch them working it and we'll talk more about that in just a minute.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:45
Did you get to milk a buffalo? I did. Not too bad. Now, if you when you get back there on this machine, you should demand to milk that buff.
Molly 7:54
i Okay. I will realize it's like ask the buffalo. Okay. Matthew, do you have a memory lane?
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:59
So my memory lane I do. Also I do also remember I never went to Italy or milk to Buffalo. But I do remember like probably like kind of in the egullet days of the early 2000s. Like was a was a good time for Capris a salad. Like I know it came on the scene a little earlier than that. But like I remember like sometimes people on egullet would like get together and make fresh mozzarella. I don't think I was ever invited to this. Oh, wow. Or or at least couldn't make it. You know,
Molly 8:25
the truth is this was like 20 years ago now. So this was a time when you could easily buy fresh mozzarella, but probably not as high quality and as readily available as we can get it now.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:35
Yeah. And also, I assume like if you've just made the mozzarella, it's probably pretty special. I don't know if I've even eaten like, like just made mozzarella.
Molly 8:42
I've been to some sort of restaurant was it like mozzarella in LA or something double that for a while served like bread and a ball of fresh, like freshly made mozzarella
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:53
totally makes sense. I think so. And then I have like a pandemic mozzerella memory which was that like when we started doing like pandemic grocery orders. First of all, we were making a lot of pizza and like the mozzarella they had was the two pound brick of Kroger low moisture part skim mozzarella, and we're like we've never bought this brand before and usually we get the whole whole milk mozzarella like are we gonna be okay with this? Totally fine. We made a jillion pizzas with it in like 2020 2021
Molly 9:21
Wow. Okay, because they didn't have a whole meal. They didn't they didn't have the whole milk. Yeah. Okay, well, that's really interesting. Um, no, it isn't. I'm curious to taste it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:32
Okay, so what is mozzarella? Can you weigh in on this? Yeah, I'll, I'll give you my opinion on this debate.
Molly 9:38
So according Okay, all my research, almost all my research comes from Wikipedia. So okay, so it is a southern Italian semi soft, non aged, stretched curd cheese, and it's traditionally made from Italian buffaloes milk. And the way that it's traditionally made is a method called pasta filata. I have heard that A fortune spun pace. Okay, so we'll talk more about that in a minute. Most of the mozzarella sold in the US is produced domestically, even though all of the mozzarella that I bought today, I'm sure. Okay, well, so we'll come back in just a second to talk about how it's made, but Mr. Etymology is requested his presence is requested.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:27
Mozzarella derives from southern Italian dialects and is the diminutive form of matzah caught or mozzarella to cut off, which is in reference to the way mozzarella is made. The word has been traced back to 1570 when it appeared in a cookbook. There's also an earlier reference from the 12th century, but it was only two matzah sources that a piece of bread with matzah was served to pilgrims at the monastery of St. Lorenzo in Chapala. Companion just one piece of bread for like multiple pilgrims. That's right. Being a pilgrim was hard.
Molly 10:56
Yeah. Okay. So the way that it's made is a well, it's made like a lot of other cheeses, but then it does some interesting thing that it takes. It takes a detour along the way. That's right. So you know, they start with milk. And traditionally, this would be the milk of the Italian Mediterranean buffalo. All right, they warm it, they add a way starter from a previous batch, which contains thermophilic bacteria. Sure, and the milk is kind of left to ripen so the bacteria can multiply. They had some rennet the milk coagulates into curds, which then they kind of cut up a couple of times, I don't really understand this. First, they cut the curds into kind of like bigger pieces, maybe like one to two inches, right? And they allow it to sit and firm up which in cheesemaking terms is called to heal. Okay, I don't really know why. But after the curd heals, it's cut into smaller pieces. So I guess they're giving it time to sort of like settle in whatever form it's in.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:53
I like okay, I'll make this observation after we get a little further into the process.
Molly 11:58
Okay, so after the curd heals, it's cut into smaller pieces of about a half inch. And then they're stirred and heated to separate out the way and then the Kurds are placed in like a, like a cheesemaking hoop or some sort of like round vessel where they're going to become sort of more of a solid mass, like, you've made these Kurds you've drained off the way now you're going to kind of let all the Kurds hang out together, and then you're done. Right? No. Okay, so now you're waiting for the pH to hit a certain number. You're waiting for it to hit around five.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:28
Wow, that part must be entertaining. You're just like sitting there, like, right? Stare at your watch and your pH meter.
Molly 12:34
So when it when it hits around five, which this is the point when you can begin the feeler Tura. Okay, how's my pronunciation?
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:43
I think it was great. Great. Okay, so
Molly 12:45
what this guy would know is that this like mass of Kurds is steeped in a bath of hot water. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:50
remember him talking about this on Eagle. Yeah, so hot water or way. I think they would buy the courage like ready for this?
Molly 12:59
Sounds right? Yes, this sounds right. So yeah, that you put them in like a bath of hot water or way and they're gonna lose some moisture in there, and they're gonna get lighter. And when they begin to float, you can fish them out. And at that point, you need them and stretch them. Yeah, until they have this like soft, elastic, stringy texture. And this is what's called the pasta filata method.
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:22
Okay, did we do a string cheese episode? I think we did. Because I remember buying like four kinds of string cheese. So I bought one today because I started forgot we did that. But we can have it or not. But that's but that's where like the stringy texture of string cheese comes from? Absolutely. Yeah, the thing I was going to observe is like this story of like, how mozzarella is made is like the perfect antidote to how like, we always laugh when there's like an apocryphal origin story for a food. Like, like, you know, I just dropped something in there, like, you know, so I left it on the gun, the in the walk, and it turned into potstickers. Because like people, people will like fuck around with food in every possible way you can imagine. See what will happen? And if it's good,
Molly 14:05
yeah, these these people in southern Italy were like, Hey, so let's warm up some milk with a little bit of whey. And then hey, let's add some stuff from a stomach. Isn't that where it comes from? Yeah. And then hey, let's cut up these curves. And then hey, let's let it sit.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:23
Like, hey, let's cut up these curves. And then hey, let's let's get out the way Hey.
Molly 14:33
Okay, anyway,
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:34
and imagine like all the all the like, rejected versions before they came up with mozzarella. Like, like, hey,
Molly 14:41
let's need it. Hey, let's
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:43
throw this one out. It's
Molly 14:45
Hey, this one's too springy. Hey, this one's just right. It's very cool to
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:50
be locked in the three cheese lumps.
Molly 14:52
Okay, so here's the deal. Of course.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:55
That's not like it accorded that formulation like the real like Goldilocks and the Three oatmeals there's no yeah there's no predator tell like I can't believe I haven't told the listeners this I recently went to South Lake Tahoe, California which is near a big lake. This was a work beat up thing and the first morning I get up early which I always do and I'm like I'm gonna go out for a walk I go out for a walk behind the hotel I take about like you know a walk about one block and immediately run into a giant bear let Matthew sent me a picture. This is a full on vase a full size Brown Bear like Big Bear and and so like everyone would have been so proud of I mean, except for the part where I stopped and took a picture which probably they do not recommend. And then I just like backed away slowly and went back to hotel. But wow, did I like dine out on this story for the rest of the week?
Molly 15:48
Oh, yeah. Was there any oatmeal waiting for you? Weirdly?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:52
No. Yeah. And I don't even know if it was like mama bear, Papa Bear. Huh? It could have been baby there could have been like, if that was baby bear. Like we're all flocks.
Molly 16:03
Okay, I'm going to talk about cheese again. All right. So according to the mozzarella di bufala Trade Organization, I'm a member the cheese maker needs it with his hands like a baker making bread until he obtains a smooth shiny paste, a strand of which he pulls out and lops off. And this form individual mozzarella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:22
Nice. Best. How about there's some cool YouTube videos of Oh, Big time, big time.
Molly 16:27
You know, this is like the fresh freshest of fresh cheeses. This is supposed to be eaten within a few days, the fresher the more tender. Okay. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:34
you include a picture here of a guy who looks like he's about to get clotheslined by some sort of strand. So
Molly 16:41
there's this so what we're seeing here, Matthew, this strand, ignore the strand. It is just to keep us away from this. Oh, okay. Okay, this was taken in Caserta. This is a cheesemaker guy. And basically, what you can't see very well is there's a machine behind him with like, kind of this.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:59
Pitched. I see you standing next to like a slanted thing slide.
Molly 17:03
There's like a slide coming out of this machine. And what that is, is like the molteni cheesy stuff. Oh, okay. It's coming down the chute. All right. Yeah. Now, as I recall, what then happens? So see how the top of this corresponds with this?
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:22
Yes. Well, so this is, this must be so entertaining to the listeners
Molly 17:26
this duction. But look, they're shaping the ball. Oh, yeah. This metal balls
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:32
like it looks, it looks sort of like an old timey cash register, or like a player piano roll.
Molly 17:37
But anyway, there was a different part of the factory. I couldn't find these pictures. I know I took them. But there was a different part where they were stirring the cheese with these, like her chair stirring the courage with these big paddles. Yeah, and what I remember as a big copper that, I think yeah, whatever. Okay. But it was pretty cool. So fresh mozzarella is generally white. But of course, like the color of these things varies depends upon depending upon the animal's diet, right can sometimes be a little yellow. And I think that what a lot of us think of as like the size of fresh mozzarella is usually about a three ounce ball often sold as overly knee which means like, like a bag.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:22
Yeah, yeah. When I was at the store like the the belgioioso brand from Wisconsin, they have they have like over Leaney and do you want to say the next word? I was hoping you would she she Leah Guinea chili a genie. She led
Molly 18:34
something anyway, that's cherry sized. Okay. Oh bocconcini is between that bocconcini means a little mouthful. And I think of those as being like the size of a ping pong ball.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:44
Like seems like that'd be a lot of mouthful. I
Molly 18:47
know. I mean, like a literal mouthful. Okay. Oh, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:50
see like, like the actual vaad Like dimensions and volume. Not just the volume, but also the shape of
Molly 18:57
Yes. So let's picture it and you can you can you imagine putting an oval Leaney in your mouth? I think I would die. Okay, can you picture putting the Chilean Genie? Yeah, she Lea Genie in your mouth? Yes. Okay, what about so I think bocconcini is between those two and that it would kind of just nicely fill your mouth but maybe not be okay. All right. Maybe not like
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:19
a champion kind of stuck in my head now trying to imagine like, if you took like a mold, like a wax mold of the inside of my mouth, like what shape would it be? I do not know.
Molly 19:28
Okay, well, I'm gonna talk about the really small size of mozzarella which is Perlini Oh, I don't think I've ever seen that. And then I'm pretty sure you've seen it in like a pasta salad or something. Do you know what I mean? Like the tiny little balls okay, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:43
could put a bunch of those in my mouth.
Molly 19:44
Oh yeah. Sometimes mozzarella is twisted into a brain that and then it's called threat Chia I my pronunciation is rough. It's fresh mozzarella is usually sold stored and in brine or saltwater away. Brian and saltwater being the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, but increasingly I also see it shrink wrapped. We're going to eat some of that today. Okay, let's of how this works.
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:06
Let's open one of these now because you're about to you're about to make a claim that we can confirm or deny. Okay, so
Molly 20:11
yeah, this is is this like vacuum packed? Yeah. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:15
Easy open. Interesting. Every time a thing says easy open it's never easy for me to open this is this is like my Andy Rooney routine.
Molly 20:24
Oh, that's fine. Okay, so this is a big ball. This is bigger than oval Leni Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:31
this this I feel like like this. This like shrink wrapped has become a more common format like a big a big chunk of fresh ish mozzarella. And this I got this Ferndale, farmstead local brand, which I'd never heard of.
Molly 20:42
So I buy this at PCC I buy it either vacuum packed or in way and I think it's very good. Yeah, I like it. It's really tender. Mm. Yeah. Very good. Okay, well, so how do we think this works? Like, what what part well, like the the vacuum sealing does it work as well as storing it in way? I think
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:05
it probably gives it a longer shelf life and is like, easier to to like grab a piece at the supermarket without splashing short. Okay, so like probably, I don't think it's going to be as good as like one that was like made a couple of days ago and has been sitting in way since then. But I think you're you're more likely to be like actually get it this way. Okay, that makes sense. They did not have like I looked to see if they had like a like a some mozzarella balls, like relaxing in a bath of whey or brine at the Murray's Cheese counter. QFC I didn't see that.
Molly 21:41
Okay, so Wikipedia says that fresh mozzarella should make a distinctive squeaky sound when chewed. I have never noticed this in fresh mozzarella. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:49
don't think I have either. That's that's a thing I think of as being associated with cheese curds, right? Like Wisconsin like cheddar e cheese cheese curds, which is true.
Molly 21:58
I wonder if we had like really fresh fresh mozzarella like in Italy?
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:03
I imagine possibly me. I don't know. So fresh mozzarella
Molly 22:06
can be made from buffalo milk. Of course that is like the original way that it was made. In Italy. You can find buffalo milk mozzarella nationwide sold as mozzarella di bufala. Although there's a special designation for it
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:20
if we talked about nations on the prosecco and champagne episode, right?
Molly 22:25
That's right. Yeah, if it comes from parts of Campania, Lazio, Apulia and Melissa it can have a I think it's a PD Oh, is what they call. The milk of buffaloes is higher in fat like 8%. All right, then cow's milk, which is maybe like between three and 4%. So the resulting cheese is supposed to be extra creamy, like sweet and tangy, more so than cow's milk that
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:51
feels accurate like to the times that I've had buffalo milk mozzarella.
Molly 22:56
So in Italy, cow's milk mozzarella is called Fior di latte. The flour of the milk. That's right, that's right. And if you purchase something called Fior di latte, it should always be cow's milk
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:08
and it should be cheese and it should be out of your day latte gelato the other day like I don't know if that it didn't seem to be like cheese flavored. It was just like milk flavored but it was good.
Molly 23:18
Okay. Cow's milk mozzarella is of course cheaper than buffalo milk mozzarella. And outside the EU if you buy something just labeled mozzarella
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:27
it's gotta be cow's milk. Yeah, they're gonna they're gonna tell everybody if it's like how I told everybody when I met a bear if they met a buffalo they're gonna tell
Molly 23:35
me oh yeah, if the cheese cheese meta buffalo Yes. There is such a thing as sheep's milk mozzarella. Oh typical.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:42
Like sir I that I love sheep's milk cheese. Me too.
Molly 23:45
It's typical of some parts of Lazio. A brute so and Sardinia and it is sometimes called mozzarella Pep. Guardiola or matzah. Picota
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:56
Oh, okay. Yeah, if when you take me to Italy,
Molly 24:00
great. And then goat's milk mozzarella is also a thing, but it's sort of relatively new and not many people make it
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:07
I've seen that at the Seattle farmers markets. Oh, okay. All right
Molly 24:20
okay, let's talk about low moisture mozzarella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:22
Yes. That's the pizza kind. Yeah,
Molly 24:24
and it is a it's considered a like processed cheese. Whereas I guess friends it's really Yeah, it is considered a processed cheese. It's a processed cheese thing like cheddar. Like this is a processed cheese right? No,
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:40
because it doesn't it doesn't say processed or processed anywhere on the label. So it would have to Okay, okay, well, whatever. I think I think probably some like pizza cheese blends are definitely okay processed cheese products or include them. But I think when you get like a ball or or a block of mozzarella at the supermarket probably is not
Molly 25:00
That makes sense. Maybe if it's like sold shredded or something, yeah. Okay, well anyway, low moisture mozzarella is a variant on the same cheese. It's just been specially formulated and prepared for use on pizza and things like pizza. The idea is it keeps longer. It has much less moisture so you can grate it or thinly slice it. It also has citric acid added to it that's probably true and I look that up and and yeah, it's partially dried it's it's like a wood we call it a semi firm cheese.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:33
Yeah, I think that's right. Pasteurized parts can milk cheese culture salt enzymes. This one does not have citric acid but I can see why it might okay. Why why do you think it might citric acid is a is a preservative and flavoring agent like it would give it more Tang and more shelf life. I think
Molly 25:49
I find that it's also usually saltier than fresh mozzarella. Yep, I just got
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:54
into some some Kroger mozzarella this is this is not a cheese I would ever eat like plain as a snack. Can
Molly 25:59
I can I take so that's the part skim stuff. Yes. Well, you cut me a little Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:04
well, it blended and blended it with the plate which is also white.
Molly 26:08
So here's the thing. This stuff, browns a lot better when it's cooked. Yeah. Then fresh mozzarella, which has way more moisture. And
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:17
if you want to brown fresh mozzarella, you gotta go to Naples and put it in one of those like 1000 degree pizza. That's right. Otherwise forget about it.
Molly 26:24
And low moisture mozzarella as you can imagine, you know it has it has lost sufficient moisture that it's much more compact. Yeah, it's denser. Yeah. Okay, so we talked a little bit about smoked mozzarella. Is there anything else we want to say about smoked mozzarella? Other than that we really don't love it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:41
Um, the one time I remember having it that I really did enjoy was it pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix where I think when when former spouse of the show Brandon and I went there, I think we got one pie that had like smoked mozzarella, red onions and pistachios. Maybe it's quite tasty.
Molly 26:58
I mean, I'd be open to trying it. I've never
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:01
like done it at home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it doesn't feel necessary to me. But if that's your thing, like
Molly 27:07
when I worked at Whole Foods, the smell of like, if you had to handle a smoked cheese, like the smell of it would just
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:16
Oh, I'm sure it would clean to you. As if you worked in a smokehouse.
Molly 27:20
Exactly. I mean, even if you're wearing latex gloves, you cannot get away from the smell of it. Anyway, okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:25
Okay. Guess what? I'm cracking open here. Radha.
Molly 27:28
Yeah. What is burrata? Talk about Burr.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:31
What is burrata? And how do you get it out of the container without getting way all over every
Molly 27:36
Oh, you have to just put your fingers in there. There you go, Matthew. That's right. Yes. All right, that. Okay? These look quite firm for burrata. I'm curious to try it. So burrata is basically fresh mozzarella, that has been kind of formed around like this creamy center. The idea is that it's like what they say on the belgioioso label here is fresh mozzarella cheese filled with shreds of mozzarella soap, which
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:03
I think is called stracciatella as the shreds. Okay,
Molly 28:06
so, so yeah. Tasty. It's interesting, because I've seen so at De Lancey, we used to carry burrata made by a company called Joya in LA I don't know who who demands he gets there burrata from now, but there's on the inside. There's much less of a distinction between the outside and shoreside just when clearly look stuffed. Yeah, this one looks stuffed the one that de Lancey like you cut into it, and it just sort of runs. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:34
but I gotta say, like, I know, this is this is probably like, among the worst burrata, you can get. It's like the National supermarket brand. It was like $6. It's still very tasty.
Molly 28:46
It's still really good. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's no wonder that stuff is very, I feel like burrata is still very trendy. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:56
I think I think, like 10 It's really had a run. Yeah, I think more than 10 years.
Molly 29:02
I think you're right, because I remember serving at a DNC when I still worked there. And I'm
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:05
also right, because for you and I are both at the age where when we say we think something happened 10 years ago, we look it up and it was like 23 years ago.
Molly 29:13
That's right. Can you believe that? It was 14 years ago that I worked at DNC. I mean, I worked in the DNC kitchen.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:21
Yeah. Can you believe that? It was that it was almost 14 years ago that we started this show?
Molly 29:25
God that is so weird. I know. Wow. Okay, well, Matthew, let's let's talk about what we actually do with fresh mozzarella. Let's do fresh mozzarella first, and then we'll do part skim. I don't
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:38
often like I will usually bite if I'm gonna make like a pizza Margarita. And like I don't really have a good reason for that. Like mostly I will like I do make pizza at home often. I always use like part skim part skim whole milk, mozzarella pretty much, which I didn't even get any minute part skim and whole milk, right. Low, low moisture, whole milk. No, I know what you mean. No, no, I knew I wanted a module that's at war with itself.
Molly 30:05
Perfect. War is the theme of today's show. Wow. Like, wow. It's almost like it's everywhere.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:13
Yeah, I What is it good for? You know what I say? Absolutely nothing. That's right.
Molly 30:17
It's over if you want it. I wish Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I do a lot with fresh mozzarella. I buy frequently, especially in the warmer months of the year. So I eat so much capris, a salad. Summertime, and I kind of like really like, stretch the limits of what Capris a salad is. I want to hear about that. Because what I like to
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:44
stretch the Yeah, I choose lumps.
Molly 30:47
i i pasta filat my cabraser That's right. All right. I feel like I could.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:56
Could you like in a sense like, do don't we all like pasta? filata our lives?
Molly 31:00
Oh, yeah. Constantly stretching and lopping things off. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, good. Okay. So, here's the deal. I usually will take some very thinly sliced salami, my favorite would be the Varzi style from the from criminally. Oh, great. Yeah. And I would take maybe like seven or eight slices of it and kind of pave the bottom of like a pasta bowl. Okay, okay. I like this so far. Then I cut up my tomatoes and I like them cut into chunks, not slices. I want them to be in bite sized chunks. Then I tear up my fresh mozzarella. I do not like to slice it. I want it torn. And I tear that into bite sized chunks as well. Okay. Then I if I have any any avocado, I'll put some sliced avocado in the calves with you up until this point. Okay. Well, you can you can take it or leave it. I don't usually have the avocado lying around. Then I take whatever basil I've got. I tear that again. I don't slice it. Yeah. Great. And then drizzle everything with olive oil and an abundant amount of salt and pepper. And so basically that's pretty good. If you put everything on the bite together. You've got salami, mozzarella, tomato, basil, olive oil, so good. And then I eat it with like crusty bread. Yeah, so I do that all summer long. Why have you never made this for me? That's supposed to be your large Okay, you're right, right. Okay. I also will very happily just eat fresh mozzarella, like torn up and put in a bowl with some salt and pepper and olive oil and I will eat it with crusty bread for lunch. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:37
really, really like tearing things up.
Molly 32:39
I don't know what it is. I don't know why I would slice it. Why would I get I said you know what I mean? The textures better. I think if you tear it right? You
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:46
can see you can see the threads from from the pasta filata process.
Molly 32:51
That's true. That's very true. Do you slice it or tear it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:56
If I'm making a pizza Margarita, I will usually like slice it or cut it into cubes, I guess usually cut it into cubes and like it scattered those because they scatter more. But I mean sometimes like a slice is nice. Like how it sort of spreads out into a puddle of cheese. Okay, no,
Molly 33:09
no, this makes sense. I'm picturing the like what happens when the cubes melt. And that's a nice effect.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:16
And you're about to mention a dish that I have made and completely forgot about and would like to make again, it's so
Molly 33:21
good. So I think this was a Jamie Oliver recipe. I think I started making it in like 2008. And basically what you do is you thinly slice cremini mushrooms. You could also use a fancier mushroom, but you don't need to do you remember
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:34
like how Jamie Oliver used to be used to be marketed as the naked chef? Yes. Like I just talked about that. Because like that didn't that didn't really last very long. Became Jamie Oliver. Yeah. So anyway, it's like wow, you're trying really hard with this. You thinly
Molly 33:51
slice cremini mushroom and then you take some sort of like an oven proof plate or platter and you lay the cremini out in a single layer. Then you scatter over it torn mozzarella just to I a little bit of fresh thyme leaves and olive oil and you put it under the broiler. Yes. And it only takes a few minutes. You're looking for the cheese to maybe like just start to brown. And then you eat it with crusty bread. Yes. And it is insane. It's like It's like pizza without having to do the pizza.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:24
Yeah, that's what it's like. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna be making this so good. For sure. So, so good. Especially since now I've got a bunch of fresh mozzarella.
Molly 34:31
Yes, do it. So then okay, let's talk about low moisture mots. What do we do with that?
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:36
Okay, mostly pizza for me. Like I'm trying to think like when I've done anything with it other than pizza in recent times. Nothing is coming to mind. Okay, how about you?
Molly 34:45
I've made a couple of lasagna is of course getting Yes. Yeah, I put a ton of it when I make lasagna. Totally. I have also used it in stuffed shells. Yeah, sure. Filling I use has you like fine li dice fresh mozzarella, I mean, low moisture, low moisture, mozzarella, and mix that in with the ricotta filling. I'm kind of curious next time to maybe like graded on the big holes of a box grater. That's
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:15
that's how I do it when I when I put it on pizza certainly.
Molly 35:18
Do you ever buy mozzarella already graded?
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:22
No. And the reason is like in order to like make that stuff shelf stable, they like like coated with an anti caking agent. And that prevents it from like, merging back together very well when it melts. I don't find that to be and like I am not a knee jerk anti convenience food person by any means. But that one does not work from
Molly 35:44
I agree. I agree. I mean, I think I think you can picture it like the way it looks when it's melted on something. Oh yeah, it stays in. It's like discreet shreds. No,
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:54
I have a story about this. Like I like I used to love the the cheddar jalapeno bagel at Safeway. And then at some point they switched to either either switch to using pre shredded cheese or probably more likely, like switch to a different brand of pre shredded cheese that just did not melt well at all. And just like was a bunch of like gross shreds. I was like, Oh, they ruined a good thing.
Molly 36:16
Oh, man. Yeah, if somebody gave me like when we were the recipients of a meal train. Somebody did give me some pre shredded like Mexican cheese blend or whatever. And I mean, I definitely used it up. Yeah, I mean, like, but
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:33
I like this technology should have improved by now. Yeah, but I don't know if it has.
Molly 36:38
Yeah. Yeah. So I really dislike grading cheese in general. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:44
like grading cheese. I find it very satisfying. Yeah, no, I
Molly 36:48
don't like it. I do not. And I have to do it like all the time. Especially because I use a lot of parmesan and whatever. Do you have don't like grating cheese. But I do it. I do it anyway, I would rather do that than buy it great. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:00
yeah, we did a cheese graters episode, but like I have four different graders. I use them all pretty regularly.
Molly 37:05
I have two that I use regularly. My like just basic microplane, and then my box grader. Yeah. And I
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:11
also have like one of the you know, the rotary one for Parmesan, very satisfied. Yeah. Still, it's still like more effort than you would expect. Because you have to squeeze it pretty hard, but it's fun.
Molly 37:21
God when my mom moved, I think we got rid of hers. She had one that was what we used when I was a kid. Yeah, so satisfying. Okay, well, anything else we should say about Mozzarella in general? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:33
don't think so. I'm gonna put this stuff back in the fridge and then I think we should do some segments.
Molly 37:38
Great. Let's do some
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:40
segments.
Molly 37:41
Okay, I wanted to say everybody if you live in Seattle or in the surrounding area, so apparently met market makes their mozzarella like or makes mozzarella on site. So you can buy you know, little deli containers with like ovo Leni met market, mozzarella, I'd be really curious to hear if anybody works or has worked in that market. Are they actually making this stuff in house? It's very good. It's really good. In fact, I bought some press to taste today and then left it at home. All right. All right, Matthew. We've got some spilled mail today.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:24
This is from listener Carly who asks, Hi, Matthew and Molly. I absolutely love to cook and love to try new recipes and dishes. I'm a new mom of a now five month old and work full time and in between working in an office all day and immediately switching to mom mode when I get home. I've lost a bit of my spark for cooking. Do you have any suggestions for recipes or dishes that could ignite my love of cooking fun, delicious, interesting food that won't take too much effort. Thanks.
Molly 38:47
Oh man, Carly,
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:49
I already already replied to listener Carly, but I just wanted to make sure that that like we answered on the show and also that you get a chance to wait what did you answer so what I talked mostly about like East Asian food because that's what like you know, I feel most inspired cooking. And also because like for two other reasons, which is that as we've talked about before, like Chinese and Japanese and Korean food use a lot of like very flavorful often fermented ingredients that mean you don't have to like develop flavor by cooking things for a long time. And if you have access to an Asian supermarket there are going to be like all kinds of great convenience foods that you may never have thought about before having a five month old in the house but some of which are really good and are like you know you can find things that kind of strike the right balance of like not so convenient that you feel like you just microwaved something and didn't do any cooking was thinking like you know, adult bulky kit or a yaki soba kit with like with like a packet but then you're gonna like add whatever vegetables and meats you want. Like, you know, so and so many other things.
Molly 39:56
Oh man, listener Carly, listen, I has been there Feel this, I feel this. My son is nine months old now. And honestly, so basically when my spouse gets home at the end of the day, because I work from home, but my day is kind of split between taking care of the baby and working, doing paid work, I should send my unpaid and my paid work. Number one, I really hope that you have a partner who takes care of the baby for you. If cooking is something you like to do, I hope that you can just hand that baby off when dinner time comes so that you can focus on cooking because oh my gosh, I do not enjoy cooking while also parenting
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:41
or if you have like a really big stock pot, just kind of plunk the baby in there like on the kitchen counter. That's right.
Molly 40:46
I will also say that my son has spent countless hours on the kitchen floor Sure, basically like mopping the floor with his body, but also playing with any number of things. potholders sauce pans we call him sauce pan man from the book, The Enchanted wood by Edith blight. Oh, blinded. Yeah. Enid Blyton. There we go.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:11
There's a saucepan man in that box there.
Molly 41:13
Okay. But what I want to say is Okay, so here are some thoughts. We on the show have talked a couple of times about some really great Instant Pot books. Yes. So there's the one by the two slavers, people. And it's Indian food.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:27
Not this one. This is a different one. But I like this one a lot to Indian food under pressure by Ashley Singh Thomas.
Molly 41:34
Okay, I can't remember what this other one is. I've got it at home. It's by the the people who did the two slavers website. And the recipes are delicious. Pretty easy to prep. So I feel like when you have time, you could do some of the prep, and then just like toss it in the Instant Pot. I would also mention the Filipino Instant Pot
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:54
cookbook. Yes, we talked to Romeo roquet Nieto.
Molly 41:58
That's right. Oh my god, the Chicken Adobo in this Chicken Adobo. Yeah, so good. And this would be a very low key rewarding thing to make. Yep. Or to do so. And also will you can make enough that then you can enjoy it for at least two nights or dinner and lunch the next day? Yeah. The other thing I will say is if you are somebody who gets like a CSA share, for instance, or if you do like one big grocery shop a week. The thing that's been saving me a lot lately is whenever I bring home a large quantity of produce, I do I basically fully deal with it the minute I bring it home. So let's say that I've got ahead of are a bunch of Russian kale in my CSA share. Yeah, I go ahead and I prepare it I usually use it for kale chips. So I go ahead, I tear it into the size pieces I want. I compost the stems. And I go ahead and I wash it and I it's ready to roll. The same thing you could do with green beans, go ahead and like just Yeah, snap the ends get it ready to roll and I do all of that whenever I do my grocery shopping so let's make your baby do those things. Yeah, that's right. On any given night you know like if I'm making something from the Filipino Instant Pot cookbook I might have like blanched green beans with it and the green beans are essentially like a no brainer because they're already prepped
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:25
Yeah The other thing I would say and like you don't you don't need us to say this but but we should say it anyway is like what whatever you you know do this because like you know it inspires you are because you love to cook or because there's something you know that you're excited to serve the family not because you feel like you have to or anybody is judging you if you if you like get dinner on the table by any means necessary. Like you do enough like you know if if you serve stuffers lasagna, like that's great. And like if
Molly 43:58
Indian food from Trader Joe's food for Trader Joe's next style is so good. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:02
like this. This is absolutely totally fine. And if anybody doesn't agree fuck.
Molly 44:08
Also we eat scrambled eggs for dinner
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:10
a lot. Yeah, pancakes. breakfast for dinner. No problem. Oh, man. Yeah,
Molly 44:14
I'm a big fan of scrambled eggs, salad and like, like roasted potatoes or bread. That's like, at least one one meal a
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:23
week. Yeah, the salad I usually make is the world's simplest salad. Everyone in the family loves it. It's like a tub of pre washed arugula. olive oil, lemon juice, salt and pepper. That's it.
Molly 44:33
Boom. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, that was such a good question. Carly. Congrats on your new baby. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:38
please, please send the baby to us.
Molly 44:42
Send it to Matthew.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:45
Right. You have enough of that?
Molly 44:46
Yeah. All right. Matthew, what's your snack in? Hey, watch your snacking. Gotta tell me what you snack in.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:55
Or I'll release the Kraken. So what you're snacking on Just as I mentioned, I was recently at my company company meet up and met a bear. And this snack was not given to me by the bear but was given to me by my coworker Lauren who was from Seoul, South Korea, and brought a big bag of like individual like mini packs of HBA F brand almonds and other not snacks and so there's like like a salted caramel peanut one that I really liked there was a there was a cookies and cream coated almond that was very popular. My favorite one was the enjoy me almonds which is coated with like sweetened quinoa cocoa powder I don't know the word the word for it might just be enjoy me in in Korean but it is toasted ground soybean flour and it has this wonderful powdery texture and is like it's a fantastic snack. I did bring some home for wife the show Laurie but it's a little packet with literally three almonds in it so I'm hoping Oh, they have it on Amazon I noticed so it's hbef and in Joanie is INJEOLM I so check your local Korean grocery if you can, I will check it at m to n but you can order these online and I recommend them
Molly 46:08
fantastic Matthew Do you have a now but wow I do
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:19
so I'm going to break the format slightly and plug a friend of the show Becky selling its feel to fork podcast but then there's also going to be like a bonus now but wow in here. Well ready? Yeah. Okay, so this this podcast is called field to fork. It is hosted by a friend of the show and multiple time guests Becky Selenga, who co hosted with Keith bacon, who's a local podcaster and they are both like fantastic radio people like they sound great. They sound much better than us. They talk to local producers and farmers and merchants in the Puget Sound area and they have a particular emphasis on queer and indigenous voices. And one of my favorite episodes so far was their conversation with a with small batch pickle maker Melissa Figaro, and after listening to the episode Watsa went right out and bought some of Melissa's pickled jalapenos, which are super tasty. So I'm gonna plug those two so the podcast is field to fork wherever you get podcasts. And the pickles are the brand is electric habitat. That's electric dash habitat.com
Molly 47:16
Fantastic. I'm glad to know about it. I had no idea I've ever heard of the brand. Cool. Yeah, it's good stuff. Awesome. Well, our producer is Abby circuit Tella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:24
Molly has a newsletter called I've got a feeling and it's at Molly weisenberg.substack.com. I recommend it Matthew
Molly 47:30
makes music has two bands. Yeah. Early to the airport and Twilight diners.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:36
Thanks for remembering both of my band. I was I was in the studio this morning working on a new URL or too early to the airport song I have trouble saying the band name or URL or to the airport or
Molly 47:47
anyway, you can find all of the stuff everywhere you find music. Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:51
And you can rate and review us wherever you find podcasts.
Molly 47:55
You can chat with other spilled milk listeners at everything spilled.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:58
milk.reddit.com You know, there's this new thing on Spotify I've noticed where it will ask you like what did you think of this episode and you can like type an answer into Spotify. And like a couple of people have done this and it's always very nice because people say like this episode made me laugh 12 times. So definitely participate in that new feature. But please say something nice.
Molly 48:16
Well and be sure and tell us exactly how many times you laughed. That's right. Yeah, keep keep like a tally marks
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:21
and like on your bedpost, not just on your bed buzz but definitely there also, yeah, okay, those are notches.
Molly 48:28
Well, I mean, that's that's what the notches on your bedpost are for? How many times you like times you laughed? During the spilled milk episode? Yeah, you're lying
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:35
in bed. You're listen to the episode. You got like a little a little knife between your toes that you're using to cut these I'd read your wife why the Nazis can't be by the head of the bed. But oh, wait, can I just realized I always imagined notches on the bedpost at the foot of the bed, but I'm not sure why
Molly 48:51
I didn't you I picture my childhood bed, which is like I'm forester, Ben. And I pictured on the lower right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:59
Me too. Yes. Why? Like I'm not a dad to be clear. I'm not picturing your childhood.
Molly 49:07
Okay, well, hey, I think that was our closing joke. All right. And I'm Matthew Amster-Burton. And I'm Molly Weissenberg.
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:19
I'll be your manager. How about that?
Molly 49:21
Oh, you'll be my man. Sure.