Spilled Milk

Episode 507: Hot Fudge 2

Episode Notes

Today is a cheat day so we're playing the part of Judge Fudge as we partake in hot toppings and cold ice cream. We alienate everyone as we learn about fudgy contraceptive techniques, burning shoeboxes and attempt to blow your problems away. Be sure to visit spilledmilkpodcast.com/donate because we are a smart show for smart people.


Episode 28: Fudge

Pledge Drive!

Hot Fudge Sauce II, by Erin Nesbit

Nancy Baggett’s recipe

Ree Drummond’s recipe

Bryan Washington’s recent New Yorker piece, “The Thing About Homophobia

Episode Transcription

Matthew Amster-Burton  0:04  

I'm Matthew and I'm Molly and this is spilled milk this or we cook something delicious eat at all, and you can't have any. Today


Molly  0:11  

is episode number 507.


Matthew Amster-Burton  0:14  

The one you've all been waiting for 507 you're doing cool hand motions representing 507.


Molly  0:20  

Today, we have decided to do hot fudge, which we did many years ago as a bonus episode for subscribers only. Yeah, so


Matthew Amster-Burton  0:29  

this is our pledge drive episode for 2021. And that means if you're listening to this and you're already a subscriber, you're like, why are they doing hot fudge again, but if you're not yet a subscriber, you can go to spill belt podcast, calm slash donate, become a subscriber and listen to the previous version of hot fudge. Yeah, you


Molly  0:47  

get to listen to twice the hot fudge.


Matthew Amster-Burton  0:49  

Yes. Okay, so this is a double fudge episode. Double fudge. Super fudge.


Molly  0:54  

It is Oh, wow, Matthew, that was ingenious. Where'd you come up with that name?


Matthew Amster-Burton  0:59  

Oh, I wrote this series of books. And when I say series, I mean two books in the ad where those books in the 80s or 70s? Sure, yeah. Because the first one was tales of a fourth, fourth grade nothing and


Molly  1:11  

I wrote Are you there? God? It's me, Margaret. That's right, which is my legal name.


Matthew Amster-Burton  1:16  

That's Yeah. Oh, but only God knows. Yes, it's


Molly  1:19  

true. Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton  1:20  

All right. Shall we begin with a trip down memory lane? Let's


Molly  1:23  

do and I'm going to kick this one off. So hot fudge. This is something that


Matthew Amster-Burton  1:31  

you sound like, you sound like you're giving like a like an extemporaneous speech in like a high school debate tournament. Hot Fudge. What is it? It is? I'm going to tell you three things about what you need to know about hotfile Okay, no,


Molly  1:44  

I remember my mom really liking hot fudge. When I was a kid. It was never something we kept around the house. It was always something that she would get out in the world and it was always like a really special thing for her to decide to get hot fudge because this was also like the the peak of my mom's dieting years.


Matthew Amster-Burton  2:02  

So this was a real this is real. This was like a real big day treat.


Molly  2:06  

Yeah, that's so annoying. Anyway, but I think that my first time having hot fudge, I might have been in college.


Matthew Amster-Burton  2:13  



Molly  2:14  

Yeah. I mean, for the first time in college,


Matthew Amster-Burton  2:17  

me too.


Molly  2:18  

Yeah. And anyway, I think it might have been at Fentons Creamery in Oakland, California. All right, which I've actually been to in the past year. Oh, wow.


Matthew Amster-Burton  2:27  

Yeah, still Fudgie?


Molly  2:28  

I did not have hot fudge that time or Wait, did I? Oh my god, I have like no memory for hot fudge. I think that's what we're learning here.


Matthew Amster-Burton  2:36  

But anyway, I thought what do you think you had when you revisited Fentons Creamery?


Molly  2:41  

So it was just this past May we drove to California to visit family and I definitely had a coffee cookie dream. Oh, that's,


Matthew Amster-Burton  2:51  

that's a flavor of ice cream. Yeah.


Molly  2:53  

It's coffee ice cream with Oreos in it. And I didn't remember this, but a


Matthew Amster-Burton  2:59  

swirl of dream.


Molly  3:00  

It turns out. It also has cookie dough in it, which is not my favorite part. But anyway, yeah. So um, but I think that when I was in college, when I was in college, I would occasionally like make a pilgrimage from the South Bay over to the East Bay to go to Fenton's Creamery. And I would get coffee clay dream


Matthew Amster-Burton  3:19  



Molly  3:20  

hot fudge, and I liked it. All right, good. No, but then I remember going home once to Oklahoma during those college years, and going to borgs also known as ROMs with my mom and getting their like turtle Sundae, which was ice cream and like with caramel and with hot fudge. Oh, yes. And there was some sort of nut involved in it. Probably pecans. And that I was like, wow, hot fudge. Where have you been all my life?


Matthew Amster-Burton  3:50  

Yeah, no, it's it's really, it definitely felt special when I was a kid too. It was it was also a favorite.


Unknown Speaker  3:56  

Was it a day it


Matthew Amster-Burton  3:57  

was not a che let's for this for this episode. Let's have fun episode 507 be the episode where we totally pivot and buy it to diet culture. Right the rest of the schrade I've


Molly  4:06  

been waiting for five or six episodes to do this.


Matthew Amster-Burton  4:09  

Okay, so yeah, so so it was a favorite. My mom would make it and also sometimes I would get it like on a Sunday when I was out but like, like my mom has always been a person who makes great homemade desserts. Like it was my birthday recently Happy birthday to me. And I went over to my parents. My mom made like thin thin like sheet pan brownies that she served like Anna in a glass with whipped cream. It was so cool. Wow. So


Molly  4:40  

did she like layer them?


Matthew Amster-Burton  4:42  

No, just kind of like whipped some cream, put it in a glass and then threw some brownie slices in there and then you can kind of like break it up with your spoon a little It's really good.


Molly  4:49  

How do you think that would have been with some hot fudge?


Matthew Amster-Burton  4:51  

I think I think it would have been great. Although I'm not a big brownie sundae fan and I feel like that would have veered really close to a brownie son. Although there was no ice cream,


Molly  5:01  

okay, yeah, I feel you there.


Matthew Amster-Burton  5:03  

I think I feel like I just want it to be like broken up into two desserts that is kind of just too much all together.


Molly  5:09  

It's interesting you say that your mom was a great dessert maker because I think of my mom as a great dessert maker too. And I don't know how to square that with her participation in diet culture in the 80s and 90s.


Matthew Amster-Burton  5:22  

I don't know. I mean, did she stone or no, she


Molly  5:24  

still made great desserts, but they were like a special occasion thing. We didn't have dessert every night back then. Which I definitely do now.


Matthew Amster-Burton  5:31  

Yeah, I don't think we did either.


Molly  5:33  

Yeah. Do you have dessert every


Matthew Amster-Burton  5:34  

night? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, usually usually it's just like a handful of chocolate chips. But it depends. I mean, right now, as I mentioned with recently my birthday, thank you. Thank you listeners for all the presents you set. And so I have like an incredible array of treats in the house right now. chocolate malt sandwich cookies, ice cream, hot fudge, like assorted cookies. Yeah,


Molly  5:57  

who made that hot fudge?


Matthew Amster-Burton  5:59  

That would have been my friend. What's her name? Molly?


Molly  6:05  

Eisenberg. That spur pronounce it. Yes. Yeah, that was me.


Matthew Amster-Burton  6:11  

I was so that was so delightful that you brought like pre pre measured ingredients for making the hot fudge like, it was it was it was a great experience. I'm


Molly  6:19  

so glad So okay, but back to your mom. So your mom would make hot fudge when you were a kid.


Matthew Amster-Burton  6:25  

Yeah. And I don't know what recipe she used I forgot to ask before for this episode, but like just the fact of getting like a hot topping or going to hot topic but getting a hot topping for your cold ice cream felt felt a little dangerous. I


Molly  6:44  

think I'm still getting my head around this concept.


Matthew Amster-Burton  6:48  

Which is as it's a new thing for all as we


Molly  6:51  

will learn in a minute the idea of putting a hot topping on cold ice cream is like foundational to hot fudge.


Matthew Amster-Burton  6:59  



Molly  7:00  

And I feel like I'm still getting my head around it because why would you do that?


Matthew Amster-Burton  7:04  

It's It's so foundational that that was like part of the founding credo of the fudge foundation. An organization I just made up. Okay. Anyway,


Molly  7:13  

so should we go down like hot fudges memory lane


Matthew Amster-Burton  7:17  

of fudge itself has a memory.


Molly  7:19  

Well, this is what maybe we should start calling our like history part of the show.


Matthew Amster-Burton  7:22  

Like but we're gonna call it a hot fudge Memory Lane every time regardless of the topic. Okay. Oh, man.


Molly  7:29  

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, so according to Wikipedia, well, let's start out by defining hot fudge. Okay, okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton  7:35  

So feeling this isn't gonna be as simple as it might appear on first glance.


Molly  7:39  

I'll let you be the judge. Right. Okay. I'll let you be the judge judge. Judge. Oh, yeah.


Matthew Amster-Burton  7:45  

Okay, Calvi fudge wappinger.


Molly  7:50  

hot fudge sauce in the US and Canada is a chocolate product often used as a topping for ice cream in a heated form, particularly sundaes and parfaits. Okay, the butter in a typical fudge like candy fudge is replaced with heavy cream resulting in a thick, portable chocolate sauce. When it's hot, that becomes more viscous as it cools. Sure, commercial syrups or commercial hot fudges are generally thinner and formulated to be usable at room temperature, which then kind of begs the question, is it still hot fudge?


Matthew Amster-Burton  8:24  

Yeah, I mean, I sort of, I think, yeah, we'll talk about this but I have a couple couple of observations. First of all, like, I don't know if it's always been clear to me that hot fudge and chocolate syrup are different things that I think like the the, the key difference is like hot fudge is higher, higher in fat, and particularly in like, milk or butter fat, such that it will solidify at room temperature and that's like, that's like key to its texture and like particularly like how the texture changes when it hits the ice cream.


Molly  8:58  

Yes, it's almost like a notch.


Matthew Amster-Burton  9:00  

I mean, the way that it is totally basic. It's a melted Guinness. Okay, so


Molly  9:05  

let's let's talk about this summer. So, Matthew, do


Unknown Speaker  9:08  

you remember the early days of being a food writer and going to iacp conferences? Yeah, although I think the only time I actually went to ICP was with you. And Abby, really? We were we did like a panel there.


Molly  9:20  

I thought you were doing all that stuff. Like before I went


Matthew Amster-Burton  9:23  

to me, I know. You're right. I went to ICP when it was in Portland once. This


Molly  9:28  

is a great part of the show. Cool. Yeah. Well, so


Matthew Amster-Burton  9:32  

what I was going to say is this is conference memory lane. Yeah. 30 segments.


Molly  9:39  

I remember the name Nancy Baggett. Yeah, my early iacp experiences. I mean, talk about a real like standard bearer of food writing when I first got into it, so Nancy Baggett is the author of the all American dessert book


Matthew Amster-Burton  9:55  

called pass that was another another book writer that Yeah, I We talked about I Norman Cole passes pasta pasta presto cookbook


Molly  10:04  

when I was in college Oh yes. Okay, well so Nancy Baggett also has a website called I believe kitchen lane calm Okay, and she has recipes there as well as sort of some history of desserts. Anyway according to Nancy Baggett it's a good bet that hot fudge sauces were basically failed attempts at making fudge which makes sense, right? Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton  10:25  

Yeah, I mean, we did our robot we did our fudge episode because that was 100% failed attempts at making a disaster.


Molly  10:32  

I wish that I had thought of it then as just a hot fudge episode,


Matthew Amster-Burton  10:36  

but I don't think that's what it turned out as I think it was just like shitty fudge. Yeah,


Molly  10:40  

okay, so Nancy Baggett writes fudge making a traditional American activity Now note that phrase, hang on, started catching on it several new england women's colleges in the late 19th century. Sometimes when the mixture wasn't cooked enough it wouldn't set and had to be eaten with a spoon. By the 20th century people began deliberately under cooking fudge so they could serve it warm over ice cream often on banana splits Sundays or other soda fountain treat public rushes


Matthew Amster-Burton  11:09  

she implying that like just like from from like miles around like as you approached like the Wellesley campus, there just be this aroma of fudge. Yeah,


Molly  11:19  

I saw a couple of other places online mentioned this idea that like fudge making was something that like women in New England women's colleges did. Was was this some sort of something to keep them from getting pregnant? Like laughs like, let's keep them busy making fudge or like, you know, is this like a version of if you eat graham crackers, you won't masturbate? If you won't get pregnant.


Matthew Amster-Burton  11:52  

I think that makes a lot of sense. Okay, trying to think like when I was in college, like, what what, like food preparation activity were authorities recommending to prevent us from from engaging in sexual intercourse.


Molly  12:07  

What do you think it was?


Matthew Amster-Burton  12:08  

Let's see, uh, maybe? Well, I mean, there's the frozen yogurt machine. We talked a lot about that. I think maybe the idea was like, but but like the, like the swiveling of the frozen yogurt. I feel like like would it would


Molly  12:21  

get the hips swivel. Like, you are just doing like the Lambada or whatever that dance was


Matthew Amster-Burton  12:28  

no like a lot of like got pregnant while dispensing frozen. Yes.


Molly  12:32  



Matthew Amster-Burton  12:34  

Yes, that's how the lump bada was invented. And, like it was, I mean, it was the forbidden dance because it was forbidden on college campus because of yogurt.


Molly  12:44  

Anyway, Matthew, what do you think are other traditional American activities?


Matthew Amster-Burton  12:50  

And another question, which is have you ever heard the phrase Banana Split sundaes before?


Molly  12:55  

Never it's just a banana. Okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton  12:57  

Other traditional American and


Molly  12:59  

and so we've got fudge making us do we have fudge making? fudge making masturbate?


Matthew Amster-Burton  13:10  

conspiracy theories.


Molly  13:13  

Oh, yes. dumping tea, jumping into bodies of water.


Matthew Amster-Burton  13:18  

That's another long long before that was that that was a protest and a symbol of the American Revolution. It was just something people did for fun.


Molly  13:27  

Like, instead of like a barbecue or a pig roast, it was like, come on by for a T dump.


Matthew Amster-Burton  13:32  

Come on by for a T dump. Yeah. Like, you know, you've you've wondered when reading like historical novels like Johnny Tremaine, like what are they talking about? when they when they get together for a T dump? It's because Americans for like, you know, all of their loadable attributes are maybe not the smartest people. And they and I include myself, but they


Molly  13:55  

figured out how to make how to turn failed fudge into hot fudge.


Matthew Amster-Burton  14:00  

That's right. That was that was really the turning point. Yeah, like, you know that suddenly at women's colleges in when was this The Late Late 19th century we go like that's, that's when like, Americans went from a nation of people dumping tea into bodies of water because they didn't know how to brew tea to like making the world's greatest ice cream top.


Molly  14:21  

Yes. Oh, okay.


Matthew Amster-Burton  14:23  

I didn't know we were gonna get such a history list. I


Molly  14:25  

didn't know either. We're not done. So as I was reading this sort of history of fudge making at women's colleges in the US, I kind of started to wonder how this jives with the official history of the hot fudge sundae, okay, which is and I again found this on multiple websites online, which of course means it's true. Okay. So, the inventor of the hot fudge sundae said to be one Clarence Clifton Brown, who is the owner of cc Browns ice cream shop in LA. Okay. In 1906, Clarence Clifton brown apparently had the idea to create a topic that would slowly melt cold ice cream.


Matthew Amster-Burton  15:08  

All right, and he started out with molten steel.


Molly  15:11  

Yep. Then he moved on to magma.


Matthew Amster-Burton  15:14  



Molly  15:15  

he experimented for two months before finally developing the right recipe but then it was a big hit his shop I found his shop ran until 1996.


Matthew Amster-Burton  15:26  

Was he behind the counter that holds


Molly  15:28  

sure he was they just propped his corpse up.


Matthew Amster-Burton  15:30  

Oh, they changed they changed name to Weekend at Bernie's ice.


Molly  15:34  

I never saw that movie.


Matthew Amster-Burton  15:36  

I definitely did see it. It's very bad. Gosh, that


Molly  15:39  

is so like, of our parents era. Is it like cuz like our parents were watching like weekend you think our


Matthew Amster-Burton  15:46  

parents were watching Weekend at Bernie's? Like my big Yes. My parents. Because like my parents would see like, like, like, like, like dramatic grown up movies.


Molly  15:58  

I change the color purple I think was something my parents


Matthew Amster-Burton  16:02  

salutely what what else else did


Molly  16:05  

our parents attraction? I'm sure I'm sure erotic thriller genre. I


Matthew Amster-Burton  16:10  

asked my mom if she has seen the movie. We just watched color of night with Bruce Willis. And she said she had not even heard of it. And so I had to recommend it.


Molly  16:19  

Yeah, okay. But anyway, so assuming that Clarence Clifton Brown was the one to come up with the I don't get it. I don't know how these two these two history


Matthew Amster-Burton  16:28  

these things. It's it's like it's too It's too obvious and to like, have a particular time for one person to deserve the credit for it. I think


Molly  16:38  

is this kind of like chocolate chip cookie? Oh, well, no,


Matthew Amster-Burton  16:41  

I think chocolate chip cookies genuinely were Ruth Wakefield. Like I think that one is very well documented, but it seems like a rare exception to the rule like okay, ice cream cones. And we talked about like, you know that there was like one guy at the St. Louis World's Fair, but like, there's definitely more to the story than that. I thought of another traditional American activity. whittling. Ah, I love that guy, you know, sit on the porch with a


Molly  17:05  

knife. In other cultures don't


Matthew Amster-Burton  17:07  

widdle. Um, you know, you're right. There's there's probably, like, I mean, a


Molly  17:14  

cave people probably whittled.


Matthew Amster-Burton  17:16  

Well, first of all, like cave people, I think were mostly American. And secondly, do they have wood in other countries? No,


Molly  17:24  

no. Trees are a purely American invention


Matthew Amster-Burton  17:27  

about knives. No. Okay. Great.


Molly  17:33  

So, Matthew, I feel like this is a good time to talk about the pledge drive.


Matthew Amster-Burton  17:39  

Okay, great. Yeah. Now? The almost the entire world? No, actually, because we also said Americans, we're done service.


Molly  17:46  

And we are so confused. Yeah. All right. So I don't know if everybody knows this. But spilled milk is a listener supported show.


Matthew Amster-Burton  17:54  

Yeah. And we do a pledge drive once a year in the fall. We only bug you about this one week, a year. And then we shut up about it. Until next time,


Molly  18:02  

we've been doing this for almost 12 years. Well, we've been doing the show for almost 12 years, we've been doing the pledge drive for maybe this is our eighth pledge drive something like that. Because for a while You and I were just shoving money into the show and just watching it burn.


Matthew Amster-Burton  18:15  

Yeah, that's that's true. We had we had like a shoe box on the table with a with a slit cut in the top. Yeah. And a fire burning. Yeah. And then like the fire burning inside our heart.


Molly  18:25  

And then we asked our listeners if they would share their fire.


Matthew Amster-Burton  18:27  

Yes. If they would let us stand next to their fire. Yes. And they did completely


Molly  18:32  

they did. And we make this show now. And always, really, for our listeners. And we should clarify that. That means we're not making it. For a corporate owner or a network. We are an independent comedy show. And we also don't make the show for our advertiser. The consistent person that we care about is you


Matthew Amster-Burton  18:52  

Yes, we make the show with one person in mind. And you are that person, whoever you are. Insert your name here. It's Yeah, insert your name here and insert your money into this flaming shoe box. Anyway, we'll tell you how to get to our online flaming shoe box in just a minute. It's all about podcast comm slash donate. But we'll say that many times.


Molly  19:12  

I mean that the show has changed a lot over the years. One thing that has become really important to us is to get some awesome guests on the show.


Matthew Amster-Burton  19:19  

Yeah, so in the past year, we've had Andrew Godwin on to talk about foot we had Michelle's honor of Japanese breakfast to talk about Korean rice cakes. We've got more awesome guests coming up and we pay our guests.


Molly  19:30  

Yeah, I don't know if our listeners know that. But we pay every guest who comes on the show.


Matthew Amster-Burton  19:34  

And the only reason we are able to do that is thanks to your donations. And we'd like to do more of that.


Molly  19:38  

Yeah, and your donations also pay producer Abby's salary as we know, producer Abby is the real heart of this flaming shoe box


Matthew Amster-Burton  19:48  

and power the power behind the flaming throne.


Molly  19:51  

Yes. Wait, the shoe box is turned into a throw.


Matthew Amster-Burton  19:55  

Cuz I sat on it. And now my butt's up. See, this is a smart show for smart people.


Molly  20:03  

So what we need you to know now is that we have three subscription levels. So the first one is called Little limber twig. So, these subscription levels for those of you who are new to the show, these are all named after types of apples,


Matthew Amster-Burton  20:16  

except for the third one, which is named after soy bean.


Molly  20:20  

Yes. Okay. So, our first subscription level is the little limber twig level, that's $5 a month and what do they get?


Matthew Amster-Burton  20:28  

Yeah, first of all, we should be clear, these are these are American dollars, but you can subscribe from anywhere in the world if you have a credit or debit card. Actually, in the US, if you have just a bank account, you don't even need a debt, credit or debit card, you get bonus episodes, and now more than ever, and so over the years, we've recorded 22 bonus episodes. They are like regular episodes of the show, but they have no ads. And they are usually on something kind of a weird topic. Like we did one like live from the Costco food court. We did one about teen slang. What else


Molly  21:02  

we did one that our children recorded I did


Matthew Amster-Burton  21:04  

one that our children recorded called spilled milk Jr. and if you become a subscriber, now you get access to all of those back bonus episodes immediately. And starting this year, we are trying something new. We're going to do three bonus episodes per year. And they're going to come out on Valentine's Day, the Fourth of July and Halloween.


Molly  21:22  

Yes, well the topics tie in with the holidays sort of right so


Matthew Amster-Burton  21:25  

that means the next bonus episode will be coming out on October 31. And it's going to be as promised last year Molly is going to teach me how to drive so


Molly  21:33  

scary. Yes. Oh,


Matthew Amster-Burton  21:35  

you also get a handwritten postcard from us.


Molly  21:38  

And you get access to our email newsletter so this the newsletter comes to your inbox along with each bonus episode. The newsletters are alternately written by me or Matthew with info about what we're up to upcoming episodes, news about live shows and whatever else is on our mind. And of course it's very silly.


Matthew Amster-Burton  21:56  

Yeah, if that's not enough for you, you can become a magnum bonum. sustaining member?


Molly  22:01  

That's right. $10 a month.


Matthew Amster-Burton  22:03  

Yep. And you get all of the above the bonus episodes, the postcard and the newsletter plus tell him what they get


Molly  22:09  

spilled milk merge either spilled milk t shirt, tote bag or mug and these are not available anywhere else.


Matthew Amster-Burton  22:15  

Okay, but what if that's not enough? What if I am determined to stuff this flaming shoe box with everything I've got? Yeah,


Molly  22:22  

okay, so you should probably join at the glycine max sustaining member level and that's 20 bucks a month.


Matthew Amster-Burton  22:29  

Yep. And you for that you get all the stuff above the the bonus episodes, the postcard the newsletter, the the piece of swag, and you get the first year you sign up a handpicked snack box full of perfectly engineered food products, other delectables non edible things we like all selected by us personally and packed into boxes in my apartment, aka the spell Belk studio.


Molly  22:54  

So go to spilled milk podcast, comm slash donate to sign up right now at any of these three levels. And we want to say the same thing actually, that we said last year. I mean, times are weird lately and times are really tough. So we recognize that there are a lot of causes that need your money more than we do. So please, even though we're doing this whole dumb pledge drive, don't make us the first on your list for donations. Yeah,


Matthew Amster-Burton  23:18  

and the offer that I made last year is also still good. If you are not in a position to donate this year at all. We totally get that. But if you love the show and want to get access to those bonus episodes, drop me an email contact at spilled milk podcast calm and I'm not going to turn you away. Wow, Matthew, Rs if you love spilled milk, it's time to make it official. Yeah, you need to marry us.


Molly  23:39  

If you've never donated to a podcast before. Let us tell you from experience. It feels great.


Matthew Amster-Burton  23:45  

Yeah, every time you listen to the show, you get to say I helped make that more more to the point those dipshits work for me.


Molly  23:52  

Yes, yes. So yeah, and also if you want to upgrade your subscription like let's say you're a little limber twig now but you want to become a magnum bonum Who wouldn't? I would go to spilled milk podcast.com slash donate and look for the section that reads I want to upgrade my subscription


Matthew Amster-Burton  24:09  

Yeah, there's a link there that let you take care of it in seconds.


Molly  24:12  

Yep. This year as always, we are looking for 60 that's six zero new or upgrading subscribers


Matthew Amster-Burton  24:18  

so when you go to spell out podcast comm slash donate you'll see how close we are to our goal and we might even come up with something a little special that we will do if we hit our goal.


Molly  24:26  

Yeah, I wonder I wonder if it'll have flames.


Matthew Amster-Burton  24:28  

I think we'll probably set something on fire and take a video that sounds so cool. Like you know the the cover of the Pink Floyd album Wish you were here now where like one guy's on fire now shaking hands with another guy who isn't on fire. We're going to recreate that but it's going to be us.


Molly  24:45  

Oh, this sounds great. Okay, so


Matthew Amster-Burton  24:47  

using Photoshop because I'm afraid to be on fire. Oh, I have a phobia about about being on fire. It's a weird thing to


Molly  24:55  

hang on. We should mention that when we had our 10th anniversary. All our subscribers got an amazing postcard


Matthew Amster-Burton  25:02  

is true


Molly  25:03  

that was a really awesome photoshopped photo of the two of us and and that alone would be a reason to have subscribed in the past yeah


Matthew Amster-Burton  25:11  

if we do if we do send a postcard with it's a parody of Wish you were here but with us It should be called human Bananas Foster.


Molly  25:18  

Yes. Okay or Snapdragon


Matthew Amster-Burton  25:20  

are humans snap tracking?


Molly  25:23  

Okay so once again that spilled milk podcast comm slash donate thank


Matthew Amster-Burton  25:27  

you so much for sticking with us over the years we could not and would not do the show without you. Back to fudge town


Molly  25:36  

I want to talk about Nancy Baggett again so I want to really get into talking about like making hot fudge so Nancy Baggett says real hot fudge is different from ordinary chocolate sauce in that it's made like old fashioned fudge like candy right so hot fudge sauce is basically a fudge that never sets


Matthew Amster-Burton  25:54  

okay but like doesn't fudge the candy have like candy heated sugar in it?


Molly  26:00  

Yeah, so this is this is where things get a little tricky for me so Nancy Baggett says that you take creamer milk, sugar and butter and you slowly heat them kind of boiling them down until they're slightly thickened and light caramel colored and didn't do that. We didn't do that and this boiling down process she says not only gives the sauce It's great gooey texture but also contributes that special fudgy taste to the chocolate


Matthew Amster-Burton  26:23  

interesting. I feel like we should try this I think we should maybe maybe we should do a hot fudge episode and actually like do some hot fudge experiments before recording that episode


Molly  26:33  

weird Should we just turn the recording off now?


Matthew Amster-Burton  26:37  

Alright bye for hot fudge three in 10 years okay


Molly  26:40  

but anyway so Matthew we acknowledge that we have not actually tried Nancy baguettes recipe would know like we tried real hot fudge


Matthew Amster-Burton  26:48  

but I I've tried like a bunch of hot fudge recipes and I always come back to the same one which we'll get to


Molly  26:55  

Okay, well so so what do you look for in hot fudge?


Matthew Amster-Burton  26:59  

So I think what this this is really helpful in like clarifying like my feelings I'm glad we talked this out because I think what I look for in hot fudge is a melted ghanoush


Molly  27:09  

right as opposed to


Matthew Amster-Burton  27:12  

as opposed to something that has like like a caramel or flavor and or Candy Candy texture.


Molly  27:19  

Yeah. Okay, that's a good point. So you're not looking for Magic shell


Matthew Amster-Burton  27:22  

I'm not looking for Magic shell I'm looking for like, like pure, rich chocolatey flavor and like, you know, chewy ghanoush texture.


Molly  27:31  

Yes, it is true that that will so in just a second we'll talk about the one that that is your preferred hot fudge. And it truly does you know, when you put it on ice cream, it both it does this wonderful thing that is it begins to melt the ice cream and itself become slightly firmer. Yeah, but not hard or chewy.


Matthew Amster-Burton  27:52  

Yeah. So to me, it's not just like the temperature differential of the hot fudge that I that I enjoy although I do like that. It's it's that chewiness it's


Molly  28:02  

it's what the two temperatures do to each other. You know,


Matthew Amster-Burton  28:06  

like, they form they form like an interface.


Molly  28:09  

Is it it? Would you call it a user interface?


Matthew Amster-Burton  28:12  

I would call it a user interface. Like I think of all the of all the desserts. Ice cream has one of the most approachable user interface, don't you? Yes, I was trying to get through a lot of usability testing.


Molly  28:25  

Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about your favorite hot fudge sauce, which is called hot fudge sauce two, posted by Aaron Nesbitt on all recipes calm


Matthew Amster-Burton  28:35  

Yeah, we'll link to that in the show notes and I have to admit something that I just realized I've never looked to see if Aaron Nesbitt has a hot fudge sauce one What if What if hot fudge sauce too is like her second best. How


Molly  28:46  

did you choose this one?


Matthew Amster-Burton  28:47  

I think I just googled hot fudge like when we were doing the original hot fudge bonus episode. I think I just googled hot fudge recipes. I was like okay, this one looks easy. Is it possible that this is the only hot fudge you've ever made? No, no, it's not possible because periodically I will see one that I think oh, this sounds good. And I'll try it and it's never as good as Aaron Nesbit's hot fudge sauce to


Molly  29:09  

Okay, so let's talk about Aaron Nesbitt. So he


Matthew Amster-Burton  29:12  

couldn't tell you like what has been different about other ones. I mean, I think maybe some have had like some cocoa powder in them, or corn syrup or I don't know.


Molly  29:19  

So Nancy baguettes, which we'll talk about a little bit more in a minute. Not only does this kind of boiling down of the dairy and sugar before adding the chocolate but it also has corn syrup. On the other hand, Aaron Nesbitt doesn't use corn syrup. It has you melt the chocolate first. Then you add the cream, salt, sugar and a small amount of butter you just cook it to warm through and then you add vanilla it's like very


Matthew Amster-Burton  29:45  

fast. Yeah, it's it's literally again OSH


Molly  29:49  

It is truly is


Matthew Amster-Burton  29:50  

Yeah, that's and that's what I want. That's kind of all I want out of life is just cannot access


Molly  29:55  

Okay, and you like to eat it cold. How does it differ flavor wise from Or does it just taste like


Matthew Amster-Burton  30:01  

candy? Yeah because I I'm not a big fan of fudge the candy I always feel like it's too sweet okay so I want a want like a cold square of panache and we have we talked about Royce nama chocolate. No, it's it's a chocolate brand from Japan that is now becoming more available in the US I think there's a store at Bellevue square east of Seattle. their signature product is like a chocolate that you have to keep in the fridge because it is literally just squares of panache that they're giving you permission to eat and it's fantastic


Molly  30:33  

and this is also basically what what you're eating when you go to the fridge and eat this particular hot


Matthew Amster-Burton  30:38  

fudge is absolutely the same. Except you don't have to eat there's with a spoon because they cut it into squares. Okay. Yeah, but I love the texture of hot fudge directly from the fridge.


Molly  30:48  

Can I have a taste of it? Okay, okay, well while we're tasting this I also want to say that I'm really curious to try Nancy baguettes recipe compared to this one because I do think it's gonna taste more like fudge the candy. It's also more fiddley like, you know, there's all that like getting the getting the


Matthew Amster-Burton  31:08  

we I do like the idea of that caramelly flavor, I kind of wonder what it's going to bring.


Molly  31:12  

I do too. I mean, the way it works is you boil down that kind of caramely stuff before adding the chocolate. Then you add hot water to thin it to your desired texture. And of course it also uses corn syrup, do we it sounds to me like you don't think that corn syrup really needs to be in hot fudge because you don't care if hot fudge gets harder as it cools,


Matthew Amster-Burton  31:34  

I want it to I mean, I don't want it to get like so hard that you can't spoon it. But like I want it to get to that chewy point. So with so that when I'm like, like digging around in my ice cream bowl, I'm getting like some frozen ice cream, some kind of melty ice cream and some sort of hard and chewy, hot fudge that that's the best.


Molly  31:54  

So I'm a little bit perplexed by by this third hot fudge recipe that I found online. This one is by ree Drummond the Pioneer Woman fame it's on food network.com so her she doesn't use chocolate at all. It's two cups sugar, two cups cream, two cups cocoa,


Matthew Amster-Burton  32:11  

and what is the largest amount?


Molly  32:13  

So why would you not use chocolate? Well,


Matthew Amster-Burton  32:18  

I mean, I guess melting chocolate is certainly more trouble than then measuring cocoa powder. Or is it because cocoa powder always


Molly  32:25  

gets everywhere cocoa powder is such a pain.


Matthew Amster-Burton  32:29  

I how much cocoa powder. Do you think we've inhaled into our lungs over the years?


Molly  32:33  

Oh, definitely. Like I don't know a pound.


Matthew Amster-Burton  32:37  

Do you think we have brown lung?


Molly  32:38  

I think I definitely have brown lung after the other day when I accidentally blew the contents of a vacuum into my car instead of sucking it.


Matthew Amster-Burton  32:46  

Like do you like I'm trying to remember now again, this is something I should have asked my parents although I think in this case, they would have been like what are you talking about? Like when I was a kid we had a vacuum cleaner. It was like like an old school vacuum cleaner that had like, like a separate like box that was the the had the motor in it. And then I mean, I know they still make this kind of vacuum cleaner. But I think like uprights are more common now. But this was like the one with the separate box that you drag around and has a hose sticking out of it. And it also had like an exhaust port like the exhaust port in Star Wars that they use to blow up the Death Star. But this one, you could plug the hose into the exhaust port and make the vacuum blow air. And I feel like we did this sometimes, but I don't know why were we like inflating something


Molly  33:29  

like a proto leaf blower.


Matthew Amster-Burton  33:31  

Maybe it was a proto leaf blower but I don't think we're blowing like dragging our vacuum outside and blowing leaves. I think maybe we were like inflating a raft.


Molly  33:38  

I wonder if you guys had maybe just spilled some cocoa and you like


Matthew Amster-Burton  33:43  

I don't know like rather than vacuum it up.


Molly  33:48  

Your mom is probably like, Guys, close your eyes. If we just turn this magical machine on it will disappear. Okay, that's what I do. And I clean the house.


Matthew Amster-Burton  33:59  

Yeah, no, maybe maybe you're right maybe like before someone came up with the idea of the vacuum cleaner. They thought let's just like blow all our problems away.


Molly  34:09  

I was gonna make a dumb joke based on that but


Matthew Amster-Burton  34:12  

nothing there's nothing funny about blowing


Molly  34:14  

away. So Matthew, what do you do with hot fudge other than eat it cold from the fridge.


Matthew Amster-Burton  34:20  

Okay, so my favorite thing to do is put it on ice cream. And I feel pretty strongly that it doesn't go on chocolate ice cream because I feel like that just makes the chocolate ice cream taste non chocolaty, fair enough. So I want on like a good vanilla ice cream with a good texture or like a peanut butter ice cream or English toffee caramel.


Molly  34:41  

What about coffee ice cream?


Matthew Amster-Burton  34:42  

Yes, absolutely. Oh my god.


Molly  34:44  

Trader Joe's cream is the number one thing to put hot fudge


Matthew Amster-Burton  34:47  

Trader Joe's coffee bean blast ice cream I think is the best coffee ice cream and it is fantastic with hot fudge.


Molly  34:54  

Wow, I can't believe you didn't put it on the agenda here.


Matthew Amster-Burton  34:58  

I didn't think of it until until you met. I think I kind of forgot coffee ice cream existed for a while


Molly  35:03  

I'm here to remind you thank you


Matthew Amster-Burton  35:05  

there's always something there to remind me


Molly  35:07  

well so I think that the bottom line here is we need to try Nancy baguettes like more traditionally


Matthew Amster-Burton  35:12  

will be bad for hot fudge three and I think that's gonna that episode is going to air in 2031


Molly  35:18  

Yes, I can't wait. And in the meantime we're going to be eating Aaron Nesbit's hot fudge sauce to from allrecipes.com


Matthew Amster-Burton  35:27  

like if we keep doing this podcast long enough eventually there people are gonna start writing articles about like, it's weird that they're still doing this. I


Molly  35:33  

know it's true. It already is weird that we're still


Matthew Amster-Burton  35:36  

doing like, like how probably how people were writing articles about Clifton's like cc Browns ice cream shop.


Molly  35:42  

Wait a minute, I have one last question about hot fudge. These recipes make a lot of hot fudge. I don't know how fast your family goes through hot fudge but I assume you're gonna have to rewarm this in small quantities. That's a good point using it. What's your strategy here because you don't want to reward the entire batch right?


Matthew Amster-Burton  36:00  

I will spoon some into a Pyrex bowl and microwave it like very carefully because you can definitely overheat it and have it like split or just get like weirdly runny. Okay, so so microwave it's like, like you would do with with melting chocolate where like you don't want to see it all melted before you stir like stir up those last little lumps and have a melt but I make it sound like it's a difficult process. So


Molly  36:24  

you see us like one of those like little little custard cups and Pyrex custard.


Matthew Amster-Burton  36:29  

Let me tell you something else. Well, I'm so glad you brought that up. I'm like pointing my finger in a very aggressive way. You know what I like to do is I'll put some in the Pyrex bowl Pyrex dessert cop and and stir it melted, stir it up, and then just scoop the ice cream right into there. Because you know what, I think hot fudge under the ice cream sometimes is better than hot fudge on the ice cream.


Molly  36:50  

I was gonna ask about this because you didn't get some in every spoonful I was gonna ask if you then like wind up, you know, scraping the hot fudge out of that bowl on top of the onto the ice cream in a different bowl.


Matthew Amster-Burton  37:01  

It depends how many people I'm serving. If the answer is one and it's me that no I'll just put ice cream into that bowl. If it's multiple people then I'll scoop the ice cream into other bowls. And you know,


Molly  37:10  

I think I'd probably do exactly the same thing.


Matthew Amster-Burton  37:12  

I just thought of something else that I want to mention which is the Dairy Queen peanut Buster parfait. Okay, because like the way they apply the hot fudge to that sundae is perfect. They put some on the bottom then they put in some ice cream then they put in some more hot fudge then they put in more ice cream and then they put more hot fudge and and on top. Oh and I'd like peanuts on


Molly  37:31  

this I would think really maximizes the interfacing. Yeah, and and ice cream, which is where all the magic happens.


Matthew Amster-Burton  37:40  

Yeah, it's like when when hot fudge and ice cream like rub together. sparks fly.


Molly  37:45  

And that's when women at women's colleges get pregnant.


Matthew Amster-Burton  37:50  

That's right. Yeah, so it didn't work. Oh,


Molly  37:53  

no, there was so much rubbing together of ice cream and hot fudge.


Matthew Amster-Burton  37:57  

No, literally like the first the first time the first season this happened. literally everyone got pregnant.


Molly  38:03  

And then it was a baby college and


Matthew Amster-Burton  38:05  

that's what we called the baby boom.


Molly  38:07  

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, okay. I've always wondered. Matthew, do we have any spilled mail today?


Matthew Amster-Burton  38:12  

Yeah, let me put this hot fudge away and then I'll tell you okay.


Molly  38:21  

Today's spilled mail comes from listener tanah Shea who says hello from Ollie Or more accurately tumwater these days Olympia washing? Yes. Hello down there.


Matthew Amster-Burton  38:32  

Hello down there.


Molly  38:34  

Please talk about your beliefs on the idea that the water greatly influences the outcome or the taste of certain foods. I think this is normally associated with breads like New York bagel, San Francisco, sourdough, etc. However, it makes more sense to me in terms of drinks rather than foods. After all, it's the water was the slogan for Olympia beer. In your opinion, when baking bread? Does the water matter? Or is this a matter of taste? Is it actually chemistry? What other foods do you feel are made better by the water?


Matthew Amster-Burton  39:04  

I love this question. My opinion is that it doesn't matter. I have no opinion. Okay, cuz like, but this


Molly  39:10  

is this is a big question that people have written entire, like long form


Matthew Amster-Burton  39:15  

articles. Yeah, and I think the conclusion is usually it doesn't matter. Or like if it does, there are so many other factors that have greatly more influence on the flavor of foods that you're never going to know.


Molly  39:26  

The water matter though because the mineral composition of water varies dramatically from place to place


Matthew Amster-Burton  39:32  

it I think it depends what you mean by dramatically. No,


Molly  39:36  

okay. It's always still water though.


Matthew Amster-Burton  39:38  

Right? I mean, so so i think i think it's true that like that the water you use can have a big effect on the flavor of the tea or coffee you're making because those things are 99% water, right? But when you're when you're making a baked good where where, you know, there are lots of other like flavors and textures involved and a lot of the Water is going to evaporate. I think there is an extent to which like the softness or hardness of water meaning like how much of certain chemicals are dissolved can have an effect on like the texture of dough, but it's going to be a tiny effect compared to how much water you're using.


Molly  40:18  

It also occurs to me that this the same you know, we don't sit around discussing this when it comes to milk for instance. Oh, that's interesting, which we can all agree varies dramatically. Yeah, like color texture, depending on the fat content. flavor. Yeah, moving on, what the cows were eating, etc. We don't I mean, I think we can all agree that the flavor and quality of milk will affect like your custard.


Matthew Amster-Burton  40:45  

Yeah, it will affect my costume,


Molly  40:46  

which is again sort of like what you were saying about beverages and water


Matthew Amster-Burton  40:51  

Yeah, cuz custard is a beverage


Molly  40:52  

customer is 90% beverage Yeah. Anyway, but um,


Matthew Amster-Burton  40:57  

can we get shirts that say 90%?


Molly  40:59  

I don't think of like the for instance the the flavor or properties of two different whole milks affecting my cake or my pan.


Matthew Amster-Burton  41:09  

That's right but but but they definitely could. Yeah, but I think most articles that have like tried to answer the question like are New York bagels better because of the water have come to the conclusion. No.


Molly  41:20  

Okay, great.


Matthew Amster-Burton  41:21  

But that does raise a question because because when you said 90% beverage that that got me thinking like aren't we like as humans 90% beverage


Molly  41:28  

You know, this is what we get back to our old bit about the human sack


Matthew Amster-Burton  41:32  

over human sack. So I was wondering like, if you could like juice if you were to juice a human


Molly  41:37  

What am I asking you the other day? What what Bob Dylan meant by something about going to school, but she only used to get juice in it. Yeah, she did. They squeeze her and squeeze out some of the beverage. I think they squeezed out some of the beverage of her. Yeah. Like this. Yeah,


Matthew Amster-Burton  41:52  

there's a thing people did in the 60s. Okay. All right. If you remember that juicing, you weren't really there.


Molly  41:58  

Have we adequately answered?


Matthew Amster-Burton  42:00  

Yeah. That like we don't have an informed opinion on this. But we'll we'll like throw some some ideas out there.


Molly  42:08  

Okay. Okay. This week. I'm doing now but wow.


For you know, for a comedy show, I love to bring a really funny now. But Wow. Which I have not done this week, you. So this week, I bring this one up. Because this is an article that recently came out in the New Yorker. It's called The thing about homophobia.


Matthew Amster-Burton  42:33  

I read it is very good.


Molly  42:34  

Yeah, by Brian Washington, who is also the author of the novel Memorial, the author of the short story collection lot. Anyway, what I felt was really important about this, and it really got me thinking was the quiet or perhaps not so quiet prevalence of homophobia in everyday life still, even today? Sure. And the way that this has direct effects on the health of queer people, and in particular, the health of black queer people. So this is a really short article, which is part of why I wanted to recommend it. It's a quick read. It's just an important reminder that this is a precarity in the lives of black queer people that we just we have not been forced to think about a lot lately with all that's been going on in the world.


Matthew Amster-Burton  43:24  

All right, the thing about homophobia by Brian watching?


Molly  43:26  

Yes. And we'll link to that in the show notes. Yeah,


Matthew Amster-Burton  43:30  

yeah. Our producer is Abby sercotel. Please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts Don't forget to become a member donate join the spelled melt family.


Molly  43:41  

I don't know if they really want to join our family. No, why don't you jump in the flaming schubach with us? No, it's it's really warm in here. Yeah, no, john waters great. I mean, it's not in here. The water is great for


Matthew Amster-Burton  43:53  

what is great breaking bagels. Yes. But flaming bagels. You can hang out with other people who are in or out of the shoe. box@reddit.com slash are slash everything spilled milk. It's our subreddit where people talk about the show.


Molly  44:08  

As always, thank you for listening to spilled milk podcast. Thank you.


Matthew Amster-Burton  44:13  

Thank you for letting us stand next to your fires at your your your fiery hot fudges.


Molly  44:19  

Hashtag donate.


Matthew Amster-Burton  44:20  

Thank you for allowing us to to form an interface with you.


Molly  44:26  

Wow, almost 12 years and counting.


Matthew Amster-Burton  44:30  

I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.


Molly  44:31  

I'm Molly weissenberg.


Matthew Amster-Burton  44:39  

Do you think do you think while we were all napping, a bear wandered in and looked around and thought about whether to eat us?


Molly  44:46  

It was such a well behaved in quiet pair.


Matthew Amster-Burton  44:49  

Oh, yeah. Like not not all bears, right?


Molly  44:52  

Not all bears. Okay. Bears are people too. That's true. Yeah.