Today we're long, strong and invasive as we chat about highway berries and blackberries. We get into some complicated botany as we learn about prickles, druplets and the thornless erect before a roll in the hay and meeting some new squiggly, edible friends.
Meditation at Lagunitas by Robert Hass
The Argonauts by Maggie Neslon
The Homesteading Hippy blog post
Episode 271: Summer Berries LIVE!
Matthew's Now but Wow! - Season 2 of The Lincoln Lawyer on Netflix
Listen to our spinoff show Dire Desires
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Molly 0:00
Hi. I'm Molly.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:05
And I'm Matthew and this
Molly 0:06
is spilled milk. I almost forgot what it's called. Let me try again.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:12
This is milled spelt, the show where we, we mill a grain, we take that we take that Bran and German write off. Yeah.
Molly 0:20
And then we need something and you can't have you can't have any. Okay, great. Today we're talking about blackberries. Yes.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:26
And I producer Abby added like, like small passive aggressive to this agenda that says, We did summer berries before. Abby, come on. Yeah, blackberries deserve their moment in the sun.
Molly 0:43
They absolutely do. And when we're recording this, we should let the listener know that we're recording this about a month ahead, actually a month to the day. Wow. So yeah, it's August 14 today and blackberries are truly having their moment in the sun.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:56
Right. And I texted Molly and said, Do you have access to blackberries? Or should I get some at the store? And Molly said, I have x
Molly 1:02
Oh, I have access. I even picked some like off of my own property this morning. Wow. Usually I pick them off of other people's property.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:10
I mean, you're sort of allowed to do that. Right. Yeah.
Molly 1:13
I mean, it's an invasive, right. And we'll get to that well, and I feel like if it's skirting like a public road, and not behind a fence, I feel that that it's fair game.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:26
What if it's skirting the issue? Well, the expression it's Yeah,
Molly 1:30
yeah, well, that let's not skirt the issue of talking about blackberries.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:36
Alright, and work. Shall we go down memory lane? No, it worked perfectly.
Molly 1:40
Do you remember like picking or eating blackberries as a kid?
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:43
Yeah, for sure do and like being like scared of getting snagged on them? Yes. But what I like what I thought about like most of my Blackberry Memory Lane really is that a December when they were like one or two years old. Just there was a kid who was who was afraid of almost nothing, but was afraid of their parents getting poked by a pokey plant. And more and more often like a hollybush than blackberries, but they would have been terrified not of themselves getting poked. But like, you know, if I was walking to near the plant, they would be like data No. So hilarious. And then we recently spent a weekend in Portland, and stayed at a bed and breakfast and went in kind of like the back entrance through the garden. And I got snagged on like two different pokey plants on the way into this into this b&b. And so I was finally able to say to December you were right to warn me. Yeah, yeah. It'll take 18 years.
Molly 2:41
Right on time. Do you remember eating blackberries? Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:45
yes. It was like pulling them right off the vines and putting it into your mouth. I think that to me is like still the best way to enjoy blackberries. Yes,
Molly 2:54
absolutely. There were not invasive blackberries in Oklahoma, at least when I was growing up. So they were not a big part of my childhood. In fact, what I remember is being on the West Coast, and I think this happened both in like Northern California. And here in the Seattle area in Issaquah. I remember visiting family and picking blackberries. And I remember I think behind my aunt Millicent and her husband Tom's house, it was like kind of a wall of trees. And I seem to remember that like we could go back in the woods there sort of and there were blackberries. For whatever reason, I also have this memory that a different uncle of mine whose name was also Tom. Wow, okay, made a really good blackberry pie. And like was well known within the family for his blackberry pie. But yeah, I mean, these felt like anomalies to me as a kid like the idea that you could just pick berries and pick berries and have enough to make a pie like that seemed crazy.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:57
Yeah, berry picking is not something I did a lot as a kid but like the idea kind of loomed large. I think that we would go to like a you pick farm or you would pick blackberries off somebody's invasive vine. Yeah,
Molly 4:10
we never even went to you pick farms when I was a kid. I just I don't know what we would have done you pick wheat?
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:17
Yeah, probably wheat. Would you separated it from the natural gas? Yeah, ha, you. You you does better than what I was gonna say. Are you frack? No, no, I'm glad
Molly 4:30
but I think that I was the kind of kid who was very scared of pokey bushes and branches Okay, so I think that probably as a kid I was not on those couple of occasions when I got to pick pick blackberries I think I was probably a total wimp ya know a blackberry bush can fuck you up it can really mess you up. No, at least a couple times a summer I will get a little too Cavalier with it and fully like stab myself with a thorn like that like get stuck in my finger and I have to kind of like paw at my own hand for ya know, you're
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:04
you're known for your devil may care approach to life I am.
Molly 5:08
I am. Okay, but I want to say that ever since I moved to Seattle, I've never gotten over the thrill of finding blackberries growing literally everywhere nice. When I first moved here maybe because I was living in an apartment complex it seemed like more of a novelty to like notice blackberries because I wasn't surrounded by like a lot of suburb type yards with sure overgrown blackberries. And so I remember feeling incredibly tempted like every time I would get on or off the highway because they're always in Seattle, there are like tons of blackberry bushes along like highway off ramps and on ramps and like yeah, like sort of the, you know, the walls of of highways, like the sloping sides, so many blackberries there. When I first moved here, I was like, what a shame that nobody is picking these. I mean, they're also probably like covered in exhaust. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:04
that is that is kind of I was thinking about that as you were describing, like, off ramp, blackberries. Like, do I really want to eat that? No, no,
Molly 6:10
I never went and picked them. I just I felt tempted. Do you think
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:13
when Khrushchev said we will bury you? He was buried. He was talking about like sending invasive blackberries? Yes. Yeah. So obviously, and I only know for it, though, that Khrushchev said that because of the sting song.
Molly 6:28
Oh, that's right. Russians. Yeah. Do the Russians love their children too? Yeah, they do. They do. Presumably, that's just a hunch. Anyway, wait, I'm not done with my memoranda, please. So when Brandon and I bought the house that I still live in, there was right from the beginning, I noticed that there was a blackberry bush, kind of diagonally across the street from our house, kind of at the entrance to this weird little like cove of houses called Fletcher's villa. Yes. Always tons of blackberries there I always do a lot of picking there. And I remember when June was one of the summers that June was napping. I remember getting into a habit of going out BlackBerry picking when Jun was napping, that's great because I was like just going across the street and I didn't have to deal with a kid while picking blackberries which is a whole job in and of itself or
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:22
you just kind of like take the kid and sort of like pin them to the bush Yeah,
Molly 7:25
you wouldn't you would not believe how much BlackBerry brambles are resemble velcro Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold on. I have a couple more things to say please. I have really fond memories of being on the Sunshine Coast of BC Have you ever been to see Scheldt Um, no.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:41
I went with my mom's is that on the mainland side? Not
Molly 7:45
on the mainland side. No, I have my mom was taking some sort of workshop near there and ash and I and June all like went with her and made the drive up there. And this was like August of 2017. And my spouse is averse to fruit. Yes, our listeners may know. There were tons of blackberry bushes near where we were staying and I taught ash how to find the perfect ripeness of a Blackberry. Oh, I hope you're gonna tell me they still have never eaten one. Ash has still never eaten a Blackberry but ash loves BlackBerry picking knives and we didn't have anything to pick them into.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:22
So we flew straight down the pants.
Molly 8:25
I think I can't remember how this happened. But we had a couple of like egg cartons smart and we put them in delayed cartons. I think that I had like read about some like craft project for kids like in a car Sure thing that involves like a cart you were
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:41
you were acoustic acoustically paneling your
Molly 8:46
soundproofing because I know Jun was gonna cry a lot on that long.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:49
Like I do not want to hear it. If there's something going on the backseat. Forget about it.
Molly 8:54
Yeah, so I get such a thrill out of being able to pick blackberries like while taking my dog for a walk. Can
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:00
I eat one of these, please? Yes, you did. So these are beautiful.
Molly 9:04
These are some of these are from our yard and some are from Fletcher's village. Are they good? I tried to really get like peak ripeness. Yeah, yeah. Okay. It feels like a crime to me to buy blackberries. Why would I buy these? I know what you mean. And yet I have Yeah. Is it just because you you don't have access? Yeah. Or
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:24
I'm kind of too lazy to seek out the wild boys.
Molly 9:27
I think the thing is, I don't like blackberries that much that I would buy them now. I really love baking with them. But the fruits that I love to just eat like raspberries or blueberries I don't even want to bake with those. I just want to like buy them and eat them whereas blackberries I want them for free and then I want to bake with them. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:47
Weitzel said like I as I was putting together this agenda I was like and you don't really like blackberries. Right? And she was like, yeah, like blueberries are probably my top and then and then strawberries and then like raspberries and blackberries, both two CD for
Molly 10:02
snacking. No, I don't care about see I don't either screw them all, you know,
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:07
like I do notice with these, like, the sweetness varies a lot big time. So like sometimes sometimes you get one that's quite tart and not very sweet. I don't mind that sometimes you got one that's like a got a good sweetheart balance, which are the best. And sometimes you get ones that are kind of like just bad. And like, I've never going to totally avoid that. It's just like it's a metaphor for life sort
Molly 10:30
of tell from the the feel of them in your fingers though. The berry should not be like mushy, like it shouldn't threatened to fall apart. But each little thing eat should feel really soft and full.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:43
And I think they taste a little bit wild.
Molly 10:47
You know what I mean? I think these are for the most part.
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:50
I think these are very, very good. Yeah, and I really do like snack and blackberries if they're good if and freshly picked. Oh, I'm a Blackberry snob.
Molly 10:58
This one is sour. Yep, it happens. Oh man, but when you get one that is perfectly ripe. It almost has like a wine quality to it. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:07
it totally does. Man. These are good. Okay, well picked. I don't go. Do you want to do you want to talk about your BlackBerry tattoo at any point on this episode?
Molly 11:16
Yeah. So I have on the inside of my right forearm, the word BlackBerry tattooed three times Blackberry, BlackBerry, BlackBerry, because it is the last line of a poem by Robert Hass, called meditation at Lagunitas. And it's a poem that I first read when I was like, 16. I don't even know what it meant to me then. It's like, not a very easy poem. I still barely understand it.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:43
barely understand it.
Molly 11:47
But it like like a song. It makes me feel things. Yeah. And I decided a number of years ago. So my first tattoo is the phrase good animal, which is something that reminds me of a passage from Maggie Nelson's book, The Argonauts, and then my second tattoo, which is like in the same part of my arm, but on the other arm is this Blackberry, BlackBerry, Blackberry one.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:11
If you were gonna get knuckle tattoos? Yeah, what would you get? Okay, you got like for like, good. Good. Evil is the classic one. Oh, really? Yeah, I think so. Ah, okay, I got a cup. Like I've got just make this up on the fly. Dude, what? That's that's one idea. So it's gotta be two to four letter words. Ah, yeah, no, they they are so sour. It's a natural product, and it may vary. Mm
Molly 12:40
hmm. I don't know what I would get Matthew. Maybe I got another one.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:43
So whenever you send me a picture of a baby or a dog, which you do frequently, and I encourage you to continue Hey, buddy, I always reply Hey, buddy, so I could Hey, buddy.
Molly 12:57
Would you just send me like like picture? How do you take pictures of your own?
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:01
That is? I guess you'd love to set up the you know the Nikon with the timer.
Molly 13:06
This selfie cam right. Okay. Should we talk more about BlackBerry botany or should we talk at all about BlackBerry botany? We
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:13
haven't yet. I think we should. I think we should invite Mr. Botany into the fold. Okay. And Mr. Barton, he's here to tell you that BlackBerry botany is way complicated, more
Molly 13:21
so than like raspberry or strawberry or botany
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:25
more so than strawberry, I think but equally so to raspberry because there is no there's no botanical definition of what is a raspberry and what is a Blackberry? There's there's enormous overlap because they're the same genus.
Molly 13:38
So like black cap raspberries. Exactly. Well, Mind Blow is that like chickadees at the center of the Venn diagram is the black cap, whereas black cap raspberry, okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:49
I'm gonna tell you what I learned, which is, which is probably just going to raise more questions than it answers. Okay, so there are at least eight species of blackberries all in the genus Rubis, which is also the genus of raspberries. They're in the rose family along with apples, pears, stone fruits, and other things. We've talked about. This from Wikipedia quote, the taxonomy of blackberries has historically been confused because of hybridization and Aiko mixes so that species have often been grouped together and called species aggregates. Oh my god EVO mixes is is like, natural asexual reproduction in plants. Okay, I don't understand why that would confuse the the taxonomy.
Molly 14:30
Hmm. I mean, maybe we just don't need to be that specific. I mean, what up taxonomy like, yeah, like, get close enough.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:38
Yeah. So that's when you have a group of closely related species and no one can really agree where the species boundaries are. Okay, so So yeah, so there's there's blackberries, there's raspberries blackberries are the ones where you pick it and the in the middle part the tourist comes off the plant and raspberries are the ones where you pick them in the tourists stays behind on the plant. That is the definition Wait, how That's spelled t o t o r u s
Molly 15:03
ah okay and what is that thing?
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:05
Oh, it's some like like grody girdle lated little little nub. That's yeah, even the botanist that gets gross but I'll still No, I don't know what it is.
Molly 15:19
Yeah, like raspberries leave behind the tourists. Yes, blackberries. Bring it with them.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:25
Yeah. Okay, great. Perfect. It comes along like a tourists.
Molly 15:31
Okay, okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:32
so I'm going to read a bunch of this Wikipedia article on blackberries because I think it's pretty fun and I think listeners will agree. Okay, so this is this is about BlackBerry anatomy.
Molly 15:40
So this is the the plant the plant. Yes. Here we go. Wow. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:44
Its first year a new stem the primo cane grows vigorously to its full length of three to six meters. In some cases up to nine meters 30 feet. I've
Molly 15:54
seen these things going. I didn't know they had a name
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:57
arching or trailing along the ground and bearing large palmately compound leaves with five or seven leaflets it does not produce any flowers. In its second year the the cane becomes a Flora cane and the stem does not grow longer, but the lateral buds break to produce flowering laterals, which have smaller leaves which with three or five leaflets first and second year shoots usually have numerous short curved very sharp prickles that are often mistake erroneously called Doran Oh, okay. They're prickles not thorns.
Molly 16:27
I have noticed this so it says these prickles can tear through denim with ease and make the plant very difficult to navigate around. So I have a lot of these primal canes growing in my yard like I see them creeping their way across from like the crazy part of the yard that I will never tame the part that I'm actively enjoying gardening and I've wondered why they are so brutally painful to handle even with gardening gloves on like rubber lined gloves. They go through the rubber
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:02
Yeah, they it's crazy. I mean, they especially have it in for pants obviously. They'll they'll like rip your gloves clean off to Yeah, but said it makes the plant very difficult to navigate around. Now what is the difference between prickles and thorns botanically speaking? No idea.
Molly 17:19
So yeah, it seems to me that prickle shouldn't be an actual like word. It seems to me that it's kind of a cute word. It
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:27
is cute word prickly. Um, doesn't doesn't Primeau Kane sound like a like a Marvel villain or a Transformers villain?
Molly 17:34
I was wondering when we were gonna get to the hurricane. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:38
you made the one the one who was who was like falsely convicted.
Molly 17:42
Now is that part of the marble marble youth?
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:45
That's from the movie The hurricane. Oh, okay. Sad. True story. Okay. blackberries are an aggregate fruit. Remember how we said recently the cherries are? droops? Yeah, each individual BlackBerry blob is a droop or droplet.
Molly 18:00
Okay, so it's like a little. It's like a little fruit with a seed in that little. Yeah, little blob, and all the blobs clustered together on a torus.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:10
Yeah, so it's an in fructose essence, I would say, okay, a pineapple is also an infarct. When a bunch of fruits like smooshed together, okay, okay. All right. I mean, we just take a bunch of foods and smoosh them together like you're making a trifle. That's not an infarct desk.
Molly 18:26
Okay, oh, I just thought of something that I haven't made in ages. I'm gonna write down here. That involves you want to share it with the class? No, no, no. I'll mention it when we get there. Okay, that involves smashing berries together.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:40
Okay. Okay. So, you may be wondering, what about other berries that you have suspected may also be blackberries. Well, you're right. They are.
Molly 18:51
Do you mean tea? Berries?
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:53
Tea berries? Absolutely. Yes. What about and I didn't read about Taib Aries. I can't remember Taib Aries may be different. Well
Molly 19:00
tayberry look kind of like blackberries, but they have fewer lobes. I think they maybe have fewer droplets and they're also like a brighter red wine
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:12
colored berries may not be blackberries but can be crossed with blackberries. Matthew, I can't believe you didn't figure this but I have so many so much information about things that are blackberries How can I spend my time on things that may or may not be black? Okay,
Molly 19:26
fine. So Mary and berries. I see you're about to mention here. I don't understand why I don't encounter more Marian berries.
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:34
Oh, you do? I do. Okay, so Mary and berries were developed in Marion County, Oregon and released in 1956. And they were developed by the USDA and Oregon State University which those to do all the big BlackBerry research. Okay. All right. So Marion berries are by far the most popular cultivated BlackBerry accounting for 90% of planting. So if you see commercially grown BlackBerry trees for sale. Those are Marion berries. Almost certainly.
Molly 20:04
Oh, this is okay. This is so interesting, right? Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:07
so according to Wikipedia the Marion berry plant is a vigorously growing trailing vine with some canes up to 20 feet long. The vines have many large spines and the fruiting laterals are long and strong producing many berries.
Molly 20:22
Bound chicka bow wow,
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:24
long it is strong
Molly 20:26
producing many berries. Okay, what about? Well, so are there other things like this that are basically a Blackberry but we call them something else?
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:37
Oh, yeah, boys and berries.
Molly 20:39
I don't think I've ever actually eaten one.
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:41
I think I've done yeah, I've definitely had a boysenberry it was like it was like an Oregon thing when I was growing. Okay. And it's a cross between a Blackberry, raspberry, Dewberry and loganberry. Well, you may be asking, what's it Dewberry? What's a loganberry? I don't remember what to do. Barry is but a loganberry is a Blackberry raspberry cross. So then they crossed that with another blackberry and some other stuff.
Molly 21:01
This reminds me of like Labradoodle breeding.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:04
It's exactly it's exactly like a Yeah. And then every year they have the what do they call it?
Molly 21:09
The the Westminster BlackBerry show you?
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:11
I couldn't remember what the fancy dog show was. Yeah.
Molly 21:14
Okay, have you had a loganberry?
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:17
Ah, I don't know if I've ever had a loganberry
Molly 21:20
I think I've had loganberries as I recall they are longer like that sounds know what I mean? Like the the infected essence is like a longer conical thing. Either that or T berries are like
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:35
right, and the loganberries instead of seeds. They have an adamantium skeleton. Is that right? This is a Wolverine Joe.
Molly 21:42
Oh, okay. Thanks.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:43
I love it when you explained it and that's and that's everything I know about Wolverine.
Molly 21:47
Okay, hold on. You have another one here. The Olivary
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:51
a lolly berries. So is it a marketing term for a cultivar of blackberries also developed at OSU? And it's one of the parents of the Marion Berry. Really? Yeah. Okay, so they crossed some other BlackBerry within olallieberry and got the Marion berry
Molly 22:04
Wow. Okay, this is really interesting. And so we need to differentiate all of these from the kind of blackberries that you and I are eating right now. And what are these are
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:14
a Himalayan blackberries which are considered a noxious weed in the in the Northwest that will they will take over your yard 100% Well, but also produces a tasty fruit.
Molly 22:25
Yeah, yeah. But these I find the blackberries range in size from like, quite small, like the size of like my thumbnail, which is not very big, to maybe the size of like Matthew's thumb, nail. Okay, maybe. Yeah, it
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:41
was yeah, it was the size of my whole thumb. That'd
Molly 22:43
be a preppy crazy.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:44
So I got a big
Molly 22:46
like Marian berries. Okay, I've always wondered about this. Why when you buy blackberries or see them for sale, they seem to be much larger than what I encounter when I'm picking right and I guess maybe it's because those are Marian berries. I think so. Yeah. Because yeah, the ones that I'm picking even when they are like really big and plump and amazing. They're still like no larger than the last joint of my thumb. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:08
like it makes sense that like the commercial varieties would be bred to be like big juicy, right? Yeah.
Molly 23:23
I'm fascinated. Okay, so Matthew, you have been reading a blog called the homesteading hippie. Well,
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:30
I found a blog called the homesteading hippie and they had a blog post about blackberries that I really enjoyed. So I'm going to quote from it several times. Okay. And we'll link to it and link to the blog.
Molly 23:39
So is this about growing black? Yes. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:42
Quote, not all blackberries are the same. pick the wrong one. And you'll scramble for years trying to figure out what's wrong.
Molly 23:51
I love this because it sounds like
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:52
they're gonna hold your whole family.
Molly 23:56
I just imagine you'd like turning entire rooms of your house upside down trying to figure out what's
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:00
what's like, where did my life go off the track? Could it have anything to do with the fact that I did the wrong variety of blackberry? So yes,
Molly 24:09
if you planted blackberry and the next thing you know, your entire property is covered in Blackberry. You've definitely planted the wrong one. Sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:16
But like that's, that's kind of the most obvious presentation of the problem. Like what if you lose your job? Could it be Could it be the fault of the blackberries? Yeah, yeah, good.
Molly 24:27
I mean, if you thought you were getting married and berries and you planted loganberry That's right.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:31
Oh, what a like you're not you're not going to make partner at the firm. Oh, god. Wait till they find out Yeah, and I'm Mister bought Nice. That's That's science. All right. Still quoting from the homesteading hippie. There are basically three main BlackBerry varieties or groups, thorny erect blackberries, thornless, erect blackberries and thornless trailing blackberries.
Molly 24:53
Wow. I think I've only encountered the thorny, erect ones.
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:57
Yeah, I think I think that I assume that What the Himalayan blackberries are long and strong. One variety recommended by the homesteading hippies black satin, quote, they grow in a semi erect fashion and are resistant to a disease known as anthrax. Noce.
Molly 25:13
Wow. And they're single and ready to mingle. Yeah, I always we should I've never met prognose Oh, we only procreate with people who are resistant to anthrax knows.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:26
Yeah, well, should you like discriminate against people who have who through no fault of their own have suffered? Anthrax knows. I guess not. I mean, God, Anthrax.
Molly 25:38
I take it back. I take it back. I didn't mean to be so ablest. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:42
and I didn't mean to fail to Yes. And you're
Molly 25:46
okay. So Matthew, do you like to just eat these things out of hand?
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:50
Yeah. Like, I will get them at the farmers market. Sometimes those are probably Marion berries. I like it when you bring them over. Like, I think I've done it once. So far. So far, so good. And I do like when you get a bad one, yikes. Like, that's a bad, that's a bad feeling.
Molly 26:06
And define bad one like, like, under ripe or overripe or by
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:11
when they have like, kind of like a wild plantea flavor. And I don't I think I think probably more likely underripe Yeah, but it's just if they've got like a funk,
Molly 26:24
they have to be way overripe, I think for them to not be good, because even if you go to pick them, and they kind of fall apart in your fingers, you can still like lick your fingers, and it's perfectly tasty. Absolutely. But yeah, and under ripe one. No, no,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:38
no, no. Yeah. And like, it's, it's cool when you're looking at the bush, like some of them are like sort of sort of pale green and some are reddish. And then and then like, the full dark, ripe ones, like you can see like the whole progression.
Molly 26:53
Yes. Well, and I think part of what's fun for me about blackberries is that the growing period of them is quite like it's quite a wide window. Right? So if your blackberry bushes like just starting to ripen, you'll be able to pick like, you know, a handful or so off of it. But then like over the next three weeks, you'll be able to just continue harvesting like this Rolling Harvest, right? And that's really satisfying. Glover Rolling Harvest love a rollover.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:20
It's like a roll in the hay.
Molly 27:21
I mean, I guess all things that you grow are like that. Except I don't know, like lettuces and things where you kind of just cut down the whole plant. Okay, radish ever had a roll in the hay? I have had a roll in the hay. Nice. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:34
I don't think I have
Molly 27:35
it. Okay, what about cooking with blackberries? So I don't
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:39
think I have ever personally cooked with blackberries. Oh, we have some blackberry homemade blackberry jam in the fridge. Oh, also. Huh? Where'd that come from? It was made by one of Lori's relatives and given to us. It's good. I think it's Marion Berry. Okay,
Molly 27:52
I love to cook with blackberries help me out. I don't love eating them out of hand. Like when I'm when I'm picking. It's always nice to eat like a nice sun warmed Blackberry. But I don't think I've ever eaten even as many as you and I have eaten sitting here right now. Usually. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:11
So what do you like to do with it? Okay, so, some ideas.
Molly 28:14
I remember when I was a kid. My mom made this thing once called Summer berry pudding. Have you had this? I have had Yeah, so you basically and she wouldn't she made this with like multiple different types of berries, mixed berries, let's say
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:29
Bumbleberry. I
Molly 28:29
think that she like cooked them with sugar or maybe or cooked them lightly. Maybe I'm maybe I'm messing this up, but somehow they got really juicy. And then
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:38
you sort of like like masseur ate them. I don't think they're cooked for a summer berry pudding, but I'm not positive.
Molly 28:46
Well, then you take like a bowl or other vessel and line it with, like white bread. Yeah, that you've cut the crust. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:54
one of the things I like about this recipe is that if you've never made it before, you will look at it and be like, what? And it's the recipe. Yeah,
Molly 29:02
so yeah, you basically cut bread so that it perfectly lines the inside of let's say a bowl. Then you spoon in a bunch of the berries and their juices a layer another layer of the white bread spoon and berries and juices and so on. And then you you seal it up nice and tight. Oh, I should say that before you line the bowl with white bread. You've lined the bowl with plastic wraps. Once you've made all these like layers and layers, you're going to have this thing that looks like this weird splotchy bowl of bread, or like a fruit haggis. It's gonna look real weird. But you put it in the fridge overnight. I can't prove whether you put a weight on it or not. I don't think you do. Okay. You know sealed up in the plastic wrap and all those berry juices permeate the white bread and the texture of it. I mean, what I've always used is like Pepperidge Farm white
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:54
bread. Yeah, when you when you first put it together like the exterior is still whitish Yeah. Then the juice seeps in and it becomes like purple it becomes
Molly 30:02
uniformly purple and the bread itself maintains its like structural integrity, but the texture of it becomes like bread pudding texture and we should say if we didn't already this is an English thing. This is an English thing. And you would serve it with I think, would be best served with either like a drizzle of just cold cream or with whipped cream. And you cut it basically, you can up end it onto a platter and cut it into wedges and it looks like a
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:33
Could you cut it into slices and toast.
Molly 30:38
Anyway, summer berry pudding. I hadn't thought of that in ages. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:41
certainly haven't had it recently. Okay,
Molly 30:43
my main thing though, that I do with blackberries is I make blackberry cobbler I have made the same recipe for years. It's on ye old orangette blog. Okay, we'll link to it in the show notes. But yeah, I think I put this recipe up in August of 2010. It is adapted from the book shape and East desserts by Lindsey shear who was shape and he says first pastry chef. Yeah, you basically make like a cream biscuit. So you know you've just got blackberries, sugar and maybe like a tablespoon of flour. Put that in your baking dish. And then you make like a cream biscuit and you just pat it into kind of you know discs or kind of thick lumps and tile the top of the cobbler so good. And I love that was just a pour of cold cream.
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:32
Yeah, I'm trying to remember if if we've had a blackberry pie as part of our pie club I think we have and that's that is one of my favorite fruit pies that
Molly 31:40
is straight up my favorite pie. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:43
I've been realizing especially this year like you know, we're members of this pie club. I'm very very smug about it. We get a pie once a month and I do not look forward to the summer pie season.
Molly 31:54
No Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:55
again I said recently like I'm not I'm not as much of a fruit phobe as your spouse but I'm not a big fruit fan either. Okay, and so I want the cream pies the chest pies like the winter pies and so the summer pies I'll eat them but like I don't really look forward to them in the same way. Oh the key lime pies. But if it's a blackberry pie that's probably going to be my favorite of the summer pies
Molly 32:21
Okay, yeah, no, I feel the same way I don't love pie love a blackberry pie.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:25
Okay. About a slump.
Molly 32:27
We made a slump for an episode and blueberry. Was it blueberry? Or did we was it a slump episode?
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:34
It might have been a slump episode.
Molly 32:36
I have no idea. We
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:37
did an episode where we went through all of the like funny Les Brown. Betty brown Betty's the boy bait the slob. The grunt
Molly 32:48
That's right, the grunt. Yes. Well, anyway, slump is over. In fact, the grunt I think that we could probably link to whatever slump recipe we linked to back then yes, it was really good. And you could absolutely make it with blackberries. I don't really make tarts these days. I don't really want just like a raw BlackBerry sitting on top of a custard tart. That does not get me going.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:10
I like looking at that kind of tart, but I don't really want to eat it. Now generally speaking, I like like a like a crostata or rustic fruit tart with blackberries I would enjoy very much.
Molly 33:21
Yeah, totally. Okay, the last thing I want to say about cooking with blackberries is so you know as you know, Matthew, I love making jam. I've only made blackberry jam once I need to give it another try. But basically it was it was when Brandon and I were still living in that duplex on Eighth Avenue. Yep, I remember it and I think I just had enough blackberries for like a half batch of jam okay and as anyone who makes jam can tell you same thing with candy really you can't like scale up or scale down the recipes without incurring some real de wrath wrath the wrath of the gods I think that I used so my like baseline fruit formula for jam is a kilo of fruit to a half kilo of sugar okay and then the juice of half to one lemon sometimes a pinch of salt whatever. I think I had instead of having 2.2 pounds of blackberries I had one pound well here we go doesn't actually like go very far when it comes to making jam and Blackberry has a lot of pectin in it. I think okay, because basically before we knew it like instantly we had made like liquid fruit leather like it was
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:34
oh, I think because like the water cooked out faster proportionally correct. Right. Okay, yeah,
Molly 34:40
cuz we had less less fruit. Yeah. So the water cooked out really fast. And we want to put this crazy CD gummy mess. It was awful. Wow. I'm curious to know whether the blackberry jam you have has seeds or no seeds because when I make raspberry jam, I'm fine with leaving seeds in there. For some reason I do feel like blackberry jam. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about having all the seeds in there. I wonder if I would want to remove like 50% of the seeds. Let's look. Oh, this looks seedless.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:15
I think it's seedless. It's good. Oh, that
Molly 35:17
looks that looks really good. You want to know thanks. Okay. Okay, looks good. Good. Wow, well done family member of Laurie, whoever made that jam. And this makes me want to like figure out how to properly make like a good blackberry jam.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:33
What's a good acronym for family? Family member?
Molly 35:39
Okay, anyway, anything else? Matthew about blackberries? Yeah, I mean, I think that we should definitely say that. Yes, everybody. We know that when you pick and eat wild blackberries, you are definitely eating a lot of tiny worms. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:55
I didn't know that. Until now.
Molly 35:57
You didn't know that till now. Oh, yeah, we've eaten a bunch. I've eaten so many. Like a lot. Okay, like tiny little microscopic, little wormy. I don't care about micro worms. So yeah. Anyway, they won't hurt you. They're just they're there and whatever. Who cares? Just little squiggly friends. They're just little squiggly friends that you ask right? And now you have more friends? That's great.
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:18
Oh, yeah, I always want more friends internal and external. Yeah.
Molly 36:22
Okay, anyway. Are you dying now that I told you you just ate some micro while
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:27
I'm actually not skeeved out by that or just like pretending to be for the bid. Okay,
Molly 36:31
cool. All right, Matthew. I think we have some spilled mail today we do
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:42
this we're listener Cara who writes my parents recently moved from the house they lived in since 1987. Prior to their move my siblings former babysitter and I decided it was time to dig up the time capsule buried in their backyard approximately 30 years ago. Yeah, I think I think we mentioned time capsules on probably several recent episodes which is why listener care wrote in about this Hold on
Molly 37:02
Wait a minute. I love that listener Kara is still in contact with her former babysitter
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:08
that is a good I didn't even notice that because she says
Molly 37:12
our our former babysitter even had the map to help guide us to the capsule.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:17
Wow. Okay, yeah, we should want to hear more about that. Okay. On the plan day of the excavation I get on a FaceTime video with my brother who lives in near my parents old house while I'm across the country who follows the instructions below to a tee and lo and behold no time capsule we then immediately start troubleshooting. We consulted a friend who works for the Forestry Service on our hands on a metal detector and still no capsule. In the end my parents moved and we are just left with this story of unknown buried history. So my question to you is if you were building a time capsule with your families well we didn't include thanks for continuing to share funny and educational content with the world I really enjoyed the reason champagne and Prosecco episodes listener Cara oh
Molly 37:58
my god Wow. This is not how I thought the story was going to end Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:03
no, it was it was kind of a letdown but you got it I mean, the truth is imagine
Molly 38:08
what a letdown it was for our dear listener.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:11
Wow, they roped in their their former babysitter and everything
Molly 38:15
this is upsetting What the heck happened? Do you think somebody stole their time capsule? I mean, I think
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:19
they should have like gone the next step and hired like professional excavators to dig Oh, I was thinking to take up the whole yard it also like first off she included a screenshot of the of the map or a photo of the map I don't know if I have permission to share that with listeners but it was a it was like a treasure map drawn by kids so cool. And like she didn't mention what was in the time capsule but I probably shouldn't remember which is good because you don't want to like if you remember exactly what's in the time capsule Yeah, I
Molly 38:50
mean, what if they put like $100 bill in there like you don't want to remember that if you can't find it right? That would be really frustrating. Yeah, okay, Matthew, let's let's spit ball this what would you put in your time capsule? Like, hold on, like right now? Okay, right now,
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:04
all I can think of is like food things that would that would get stale.
Molly 39:08
Okay, I think that I would put in like a like a stuffed animal. I was just thinking so June is super into Taylor Swift right now. Okay, like super into Taylor Swift. And I was feeling like if we were doing a time capsule like of this time, yeah, we would definitely have to put in like some something that is linked to June's love for Taylor Swift like a little Taylor Swift like lapel pin. Or let's see, what about me. I think I put pictures in there. Yeah, that's dumb. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:43
it is.
Molly 39:44
What about
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:45
like, okay, so so there's a there's a cartoon, it's a web cartoon that my family is a big, big fans of so I'm just gonna like like retell someone else's joke here called Homestar Runner that probably some of our listeners are familiar with in there. was a time capsule episode of that cartoon in which the protagonist Strong Bad says that what he would put in a time capsule is like a dry ice. some dry ice so that when you open it it would go like fresh and like and yeah, steam. Yeah fog would would come out. Yeah. Which seems like the best answer to me.
Molly 40:19
I feel like time capsules. To Me Time Capsules seem a lot less cool than they used to, in part because we don't have like mix tapes or CDs anymore. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:29
it's like they will like oh, like like, newspaper clippings. Like like Depeche Mode. Yeah.
Molly 40:37
So now that we've like, digitized everything, I feel like my time capsule is like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:45
your your tweets from from 2023? Yeah.
Molly 40:49
I think I would write a letter maybe to my future self.
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:53
That's good. What would you say? Keep it keep doing what you're doing.
Molly 40:57
You always looked better than you thought you did. That's nice. Right? That's not always true, though. Sure. Back it. I mean, not always. But sometimes. Or like, remember when your hair used to be red? Molly. You know,
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:14
you're you're doing your best.
Molly 41:16
Yeah, keep going.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:17
Keep it rolling.
Molly 41:20
I don't know.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:21
The letter is a good idea. Oh, you know what I put in what like one of my favorite pocket pens.
Molly 41:26
That's a good idea, which,
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:26
like, I'm down to my last one. And they discontinued my favorite kind. So I'd probably throw that in there.
Molly 41:32
Okay, just the dead one. The one that's like, well, it's still
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:36
it's still it's in my pocket is still right now. I might even be able to refill it. I'm not sure. Cool. Well, I'm sure I'm sure the ballpoint ink would be pretty dried up 30 years. 30 years is that we're going for Yeah, okay. No, I want a time capsule that's like that's going to be buried for 1000 years. And it's all about me and how cool I was. People 1000 years from now will know I was cool.
Molly 42:00
Do you think that if you I don't know if you like commissioned an oil painting of yourself art somebody make like like carve a little statue of you and you bury this in like a very large time capsule. Like let's say like the size of like a heating oil tank. Yeah, right. You can use my heating oil tank someday if we if we get a more economical and environmentally sound heating method for our house.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:25
What if I just use like one of those propane tanks that they still down to the safe way? Oh,
Molly 42:30
I don't know if you can fit your oil painting in there. I could roll it
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:33
up. You know what I've always wanted to do you know how like in every heist movie someone like takes an exacto knife and cuts the painting off of the of the frame. Yeah, that looks so fun. Yeah, I like the more the fancier the painting, the more satisfying it is. So I'm gonna get who's the best oil painter right working right now. Like I can think of some old ones but like, who's the current one? Like I would if Van Gogh were still doing it. I would get Van Gogh. But like we need like the Van Gogh of 2020. I
Molly 43:02
think that you should probably see. I'm just gonna say you could. You could go with like Hindi wily. Yes. Oh, yeah. It could be like, you know, you lying amongst some flowers? Yeah.
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:16
What about speaking of flowers? What about a Jeff Koons like, like a big, like, flowery sculpture of like Matthew as a balloon animal? Yeah, I'm not sure how we would get that into the time capsule. Okay, new new project. Instead we'd forget the time capsule scratch the time capsule. We're just getting a big ask Jeff Koons sculpture of me. Okay,
Molly 43:36
but you as a balloon animal. Let's be clear. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. All right. Matthew. What's your snacking?
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:42
Okay, I'm gonna bring over the thing. I'm snacking. Okay. Hey, watch your snacking. Gotta tell me what you snack in. Or I'll release the Kraken. So what's your snack in
Molly 43:55
just you are so game about buying like, novelty flavors
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:02
of Japs. That's that's the thing that people will remember about being 1000. So this is this is a new Doritos flavor from the Doritos solid black initiative, which I'm sure is in some, at some level like, like, you know, the racial equity equivalent of like greenwashing in that it said Frito lays initiative to support black creators, but I'll take it. So solid black is an ongoing initiative from Doritos to provide resources and a platform for black changemakers who use innovation and boldness to drive culture and give back to their communities. And but I got it because it's pineapple jalapeno flavor. And it was really good. It was created by Chris Williams of blue seals restaurant in Houston. And I think it's real tasty.
Molly 44:50
They're really easy. When like a real jalapeno way and the pineapple.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:55
It has a bit of that kind of, you know citrus powder flavor. You get like a chili lime chip but in a good way
Molly 45:03
the more I eat of these them I like them what would you want to drink with them? Ideally? Maybe an iced tea?
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:09
Iced Tea Margarita?
Molly 45:13
I don't know if I'd want the lime Yeah, I feel like it might activate the citrus undertone in here too much. These are really good and really spicy. Like the one of the spicy or chips
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:28
I've yet hat and like I like that like often I've often bought like you know, it's our new like, you know, ghost pepper. Like this. This is hot and it's not spicy. These are these are just jalapeno, but it's spicy. And it's really, really good. Wow, okay, how about you? What's your snack?
Molly 45:44
You know what I would really be interested in doing Matthew is taking one of those chips and dipping it in the thing that I've been snacking. Oh, okay, which is with you know, I didn't bring it with me. It's basically just like ranch dip. But my friend Natalie years ago, introduced me to the idea of grading some fresh cucumber into the dip. So yeah, you take you know your pint of sour cream, preferably Daisy sour cream course one packet of Hidden Valley Ranch powder. You mix that up, and then you take maybe, I don't know 1/3 to half of an English cucumber, let's say and grate it on the large holes of a box grater just directly in there. Mix it all in so the texture is a little funky in that kind of overlaps little cucumber strands. But here is what it does. Not only does it slightly for me improve the texture of the dip because the texture goes from being like really thick like sour cream to being a little bit more like a dip. Like just a little okay, I little looser.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:45
I am intrigued by this because I am not a dip felt like a ranch dip person as you know. Yeah, I would try this.
Molly 46:51
I mean regular ranch dip without the cucumber I think is too thick. And it feels stodgy.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:58
I mean, I think but like some many people will like ranch dip. That's what they like about it.
Molly 47:02
Yeah, pride this way. So plus you get a little bit of flavor from the cucumber. It is delicious. Everyone I know loves it. It is the most beloved part of my camping cooking repertoire. Oh, that makes sense. I am known for this extremely simple dip that I didn't even create create. Yeah, so yeah, just this past weekend we were camping and we ate it with my favorite chip to eat with it which is kettle chips, salt and pepper. Okay, yeah. crinkle cut. And then you do some like cucumbers beers some carrots beers radishes if you've got and before you know it you and your friends will have eaten a pint of sour cream.
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:46
Some Garuda spear zaurus beer. I've been playing a lot of Breath of the Wild. Okay, yeah, so check out a stodg Lodge and awaken from your cucumber slumber because it's time to dip.
Molly 47:57
Matthew. You gotta now but wow, God I'm like dripping with sweat. Shirdi
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:01
we're almost we're almost done listeners you can you can bear with us a little longer
season two of the Lincoln Lawyer on Netflix can't get enough of it. We already we already finished it but debt. If you enjoyed Season One of the legged lawyer, I think you're gonna enjoy this one too. Everyone on the show is great, but I especially want to call out Manuel Garcia Ruffo as Mickey Haller and Yaga Costa as prosecutor Andrea Freeman, these two have the most incredible on screen chemistry. There is no there's no lower medic plotline between them at all. Like I'm just shipping them hard because these are like two of the best looking people on TV and I just want to see if get together and the show is also good.
Molly 48:48
Okay, cool. Awesome. All right. Thanks, Matthew. If they
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:52
made a rom com starring these two, it would be the greatest especially if it was rated nc 17. Yeah. Okay.
Molly 48:58
We know what Matthews here for? Well, our producer is Abby, sir Catella.
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:02
You can subscribe to Molly's newsletter. I've got a feeling at Molly weisenberg.substack.com. I personally recommend it. I'm a subscriber.
Molly 49:11
Thanks, Matthew. Matthew, you make music. I do make
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:14
music. I might have a new song out by the time you hear this. My friend Meredith and I who have a little band called The Twilight dinars recorded a cover of the big star Song 13, which you probably know even if you don't know it by name, and I played a bunch of fingerstyle guitar on it and we have a lot of vocal harmonies that would be on our Bandcamp Twilight diners.bandcamp.com I hope is the URL. Okay. And if not, I'll fix it next week.
Molly 49:44
I've just been eating smart blackberries while you were talking good. You can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and we appreciate it
Matthew Amster-Burton 49:50
and you can chat with other listeners and talk about what you'd put up put up your time capsules.
Molly 49:53
Well. Oh, I think you'd put yada yada Costa man Well, Garcia
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:01
Yeah, they're gonna do. So. Everything's spelled belux.reddit.com is where you can do that.
Molly 50:08
Okay, well, I think that was our closing joke.
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:12
Or, I mean, it could be I was gonna say till next time where? What was the thing? Semi erect and resist it to the anthrax house. Yeah, also long and strong, long, strong and very sweaty. Yeah.
Molly 50:24
Molly Weissenberg Matthew Amster-Burton Oh
my god, I'm so hot Matthew.
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:36
Okay, how do I beat the heat? How do you beat the heat? Vornado fan? Ice Tea? Yeah,
Molly 50:41
for NATO cold cool showers. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 50:44
don't really like a cold shower but a cool shower pretty nice. Yeah, by nighttime It's much cooler outside than in sort of running the window fan is pretty satisfying. Yeah. And also like it's right at the level of like my like prone form. That's great. Or my supine for your great form is a supine? Okay, all right.