We're addressing some childhood fears as we put on our shucking gloves and gather our boppers to chew our oysters. We get a visitor from the 14th century as we discuss frilly bottoms, jingle shells and human garbage piles before forcing ourselves into early retirement.
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Molly 0:00
Hi. I'm Molly. And I'm Matthew and this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:10
And today we're talking about oysters.
Molly 0:12
We've had this on our to do list for a while. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:15
think we have Yeah.
Molly 0:16
Where am I mixing it up with like dessert wines, oysters and desert wines. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:20
similar to those go together?
Molly 0:22
I don't think I don't think so. No,
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:24
I think what you want with oysters is like a crackling called Cold Sauvignon Blanc.
Molly 0:28
Yes. First, where's Tony Negroni? When we need her? That's true. I'll tell you where she is. She's she's actually at my house taking care of my baby. So I can be here. Okay. Did I mention that her nanny is on vacation this week? Oh, wow. And so we're having our corporate retreat at the end of this week listener. Not the
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:47
one our one listener funded our corporate retreat.
Molly 0:50
Not when you hear this, we will have already gone on our corporate retreat. But I am anticipating our corporate retreat right now. Oh, yeah. We just we just put a bunch of snacks on our snack list. Yeah, it's gonna be great. But we're not going to snack on oysters.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:04
No less. I mean, who knows? I mean, I'm willing to snack on you said I said we're staying on on a like a pickle pickle saltwater, saltwater, pickled passage or something Pickering passed during passage. It's probably a couple of a couple of bivalves down there.
Molly 1:20
I bet Okay, well anyway, but I don't know how to shuck an oyster. I've never Oh, I don't either. I've never done it. And we're going to talk more about this a little bit when we get there. But this episode was suggested by a listener on Reddit H W. fiddlehead. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:34
think it's pretty active on the spilled milk Reddit. Well, thank
Molly 1:37
you HW fiddlehead Matthew, let's begin on memory lane.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:41
My dad has always loved oysters, smoked raw, whatever. And I don't think I tried my first oyster until I was in my 20s I was scared of them as a kid. They seemed like slimy and or smelly. Yeah, no, I
Molly 1:54
think this is a common a common story. I had an oyster I think as a young child, and I don't even know that I swallowed it or I think I tried to have one and I was like too terrified. I couldn't actually do it. I did not have my first oyster until I was 30
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:11
Yes and a teenager the show December tots de like as always loved seafood and has never really been squeamish about it and I think had their first oyster when they were like one
Molly 2:22
that exactly is the case with Jun Jun used to pick them up. Like, like, pinch the actual like mollusk itself out of the shell and like drop it into their mouth hardcore.
Yeah, anyway, but I do remember. I mean, oysters sort of loomed large in my imagination as a child because my parents loved them. And I found them terrifying. Which is kind of a state I can't really think myself back to Oh, sure. Like, it's interesting.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:54
Like when I try to remember what it was like, when I couldn't read Japanese. Oh, you like really can't remember remember? Oh, that's so interesting. I'm
Molly 3:02
trying to think about I remember
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:04
what it was, like, you know, not being able to read things, but I can't remember what it felt like to look at it and not have it look like words.
Molly 3:10
Okay. i It's interesting, because I do think that there are some experiences in life that seem daunting or difficult or momentous to achieve and yet I can remember life before them. I don't remember what it was like to be super scared of oysters. Yeah, but anyway, I remember them showing up at the door just ambling over to your to your doorstep. So my half siblings who are a good deal older than me, they all lived and still live on the east coast. And they're all really interested in food. And I remember them coming to our house for Christmas. This was like the house that I grew up in that we lived in until I was like 12 or 13. I remember them coming with like a cooler full of oysters. This was like a big deal for my parents and my dad got out his oyster shucking knife and his like shucking glove, which was like this heavy duty in his case, it was like a heavy duty clear plastic thing that like fit over like there was a loop that went over his four fingers and then it kind of covered his whole palm and part of his thumb.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:22
Interesting. I think we used to sell oyster shucking gloves it's still a tub when I worked there of course, but I think of that I think they were more like just a like, fully over the handle. Yeah, and male gloves.
Molly 4:31
Yes, that's what I have seen mostly these days. My Dad Yeah, His thing was kind of weird.
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:37
And for people who are like really concerned we sell we sold like a full suit of oyster armor.
Molly 4:42
I need to so my spouse enjoys whittling every now and then. Yeah, and ash also is the kind of person who whatever hobby they are doing they're gonna wind up getting injured someday. Sure. Like
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:55
when I took up knife sharpening. Yeah, yeah. Did you get injured all the time?
Molly 5:00
Yeah, okay, well ash forever is whittling with like, no protective stuff. And I'm just like, What is wrong with you? Maybe for their birthday this year? I will finally you know, I'm just gonna buy them an oyster. I'm gonna buy them in oyster glow Okay, for all their wiggling needs. Yeah, but I remember my half siblings arrive wait like oysters and
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:22
what is whittling protective equipment? Cuz like they're probably like when your knife sharpening like you really need to like have like your tactile, you know, contact with the with the materials or you can't really tell what you're doing. So one
Molly 5:34
thing that I do know is there's a type of apron. Oh, because often people are whittling, like so. Right? So you don't want to like put a knife? Yes. So they're like protective aprons or you. I think that you can just use like a heavy duty piece of leather, like on your thigh. I know that you get one of those. That's the case for flintknapping
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:56
Oh, I'm so glad you brought up flintknapping I think about flintknapping. I never have oh my god, can we do a retreat? Yes. We can't
Molly 6:05
flip up on the retreat, because we don't have any boppers. Oh,
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:09
are you serious that there's something called boppers? Yes. That's like a nursing pillow. Right? So.
Molly 6:13
So Matthew, my kid goes to a school where bopper at some point in like, lower elementary, every single kid gets interested in flintknapping I don't know if this is like a Montessori thing or what
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:30
it gets but wait, like they do they the teachers bring it up or the kids just
Molly 6:34
don't know. Oh, this happened. I don't know how this happens like so kids. It's like part of a developmental stage. Like every child has like an ancient Egypt phase. That's true and like a Greek mythology is, and if your kids in June's class, you go through a flintknapping phase two and here's the deal. There is a society like Pacific Northwest Flint nappers or Napa or snappers Northwest or something like that.
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:02
And I have a charter member of nappers north
Molly 7:08
but there is this please like out near Sammamish, where every Friday morning, this guy who has like turned his garage, his detached garage into like flintknapping and like bow making workshop, he opens it to the public and you can come and for free like he'll teach you how to Flint nap and he's got like obsidian and all this all the stuff you need. So I had heard from like some other parents at June school, who had like chaperoned trips of kids going out to this. Yeah, dudes place on Friday mornings. And once when June was out of school on a Friday, they were like, Please, can we go flintknapping? self employed, I was also self employed still am. But anyway, we were available. So we took June to displace in some damage. And I gotta say, We rolled up. And like, I felt that we were possibly in Magga country. Yeah, sure. There was like a lot of military bumper sticker situation. And NRA stuff. Yeah. But these guys, and it was all men, older men, they were so welcoming. I want to say that they were also incredibly welcoming of ash, my very androgynous spouse. And that felt really good, good. And anyway, they taught us how to flip nap. And you need this tool called a bopper. And it it kind of looks like like a very short cattle prod and it's got a little bit of like lead or some other heavy material in the head of it, so that you don't have to use a lot of force. When you are napping. You just like lightly strike it against a certain age. It's really cool.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:56
Okay, I have several questions about flintknapping. Is that okay? Yeah. Okay, number one, what is the goal of Flint now
Molly 9:04
to take a piece of stone, obsidian, Flint, whatever obsidian is most typical in this part of the country, and to basically sharpen it into an arrowhead or a sword or a knife.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:16
Okay, so so it doesn't have anything to do with starting fires. No, oh,
Molly 9:21
I know it did. It is all about taking a stone and basically creating a like a cutting edge. Okay. And so you are doing that, like I can show you actually you're coming to my house later today. I show me something you now I've got arrowheads that I know Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:38
I think I noticed arrowheads when I was at your house. Or my family. I didn't know your family napping souvenir. I think that might actually be all my questions about flow capping because the rest of all we're going to be firing.
Molly 9:49
Yeah. I don't know how we got on to this. I don't either. Shocking. Shush.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:55
Love versus a shocking gloves. Yeah.
Molly 9:57
So yeah, I remember my point. her aunt's and my older half siblings, really savoring oysters, I was terrified. I think I tried one and maybe gagged or something, I was not brave enough to try one again until around the time we opened the lancy. And I remember we occasionally served oysters on the half shell on the half shell. And I did not realize and we're going to talk a lot more about this. But until that time, I didn't really understand that probably the oysters that my half siblings had brought when I was a kid. Were East Coast oysters, so completely different type from the Pacific oysters that we almost exclusively have here which are smaller, the shell looks really different. So Pacific oysters felt much more doable to me because they're little
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:51
Yes, I had I've had the same experience was like a big ass thing partly because Oh, I'm just remembering this now my memory lane continues further back that my parents had and possibly still have as a spoon rest on their stovetop and oyster shell like a half an oyster shell of a huge oyster that my dad ate. Oh my god, like, revolting. Oh, no, it's like an awesome by enormous shell.
Molly 11:18
Wow. Did he you know just toss it back? Or did he like cut it up? I don't know. I wasn't there anybody ever cut up and oh, he starts to imagine anything worse.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:28
And then my more recent memory lane if this is even like this was like last year earlier this year. I've talked about on the bistro night episode that December and I went to Bistro night at bistro style, a wonderful restaurant in Bellingham Washington. And I think both of our favorite dish of the night was roasted oysters with serrano chili minion net, and I feel like a serious oyster personhood be like you don't need to roast an oyster. Like you should eat it raw and like don't put something spicy on it and mask the flavor. This was such a good dish.
Molly 11:57
Right? It sounds phenomenal. You know, I also want to say like about our kids liking oysters, oysters, were one of the first foods where I really, really got to like test out my ability to not respond to whether or not my child ate. You know, like, you have to just pretend that the thing you're putting in front of them is like as normal as an apple slice, and you don't respond whether they eat it or not. And it doesn't matter how they eat it like I mean I don't think June ever knew that I thought it was bonkers that they reached in with their fingers and like gold the oyster for you. But anyway,
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:39
I think that did you did you make them shocked at themselves?
Molly 12:42
Yeah, of course I did.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:43
Of course I did. They are already already a seasoned Flint knapper That's right,
Molly 12:48
they can do anything. Okay, so like let's get into this. I did the research for this episode and I learned a lot. So are you ready for Do you know much about oysters? No. Okay, great. I
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:00
know a little bit but not much. Okay.
Molly 13:02
So you know, at its most basic oyster is like what we call a number of different families of saltwater bivalve mollusks that live in either marine so salty or brackish habitat brackish is lightly salted That's right. Many but not all are in the family. How would I pronounce this?
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:24
Austria de Austria D? Okay, that's what I'm going to say.
Molly 13:28
Matthew, would you is Mr. Etymology here
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:37
Miss Mr. Etymology has just arrived in his his carriage.
Molly 13:42
Oh, wonderful. Has he come from the 14th century come
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:45
for the 14th century to tell you this. The word oyster comes from the old French rule of law,
Molly 13:50
wasa I have no idea and
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:53
first appeared in English during the 14th century, which is where I just came from. The French derived from the Latin Austria, Austria, the feminine form of Austria, which is the Latinization of the ancient Greek. Oh streon Oyster compared to almost eon bone.
Molly 14:10
Yeah, it's not interesting that the words are so similar. I mean, that calcium, I guess in the oyster shell. Yeah, makes sense. Why it would be close to the word bone.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:20
Yeah, they Yeah, they refer to them as as bony Boys,
Molly 14:24
boys. That's right. Okay, so there are two main types. Mr. Etymology is getting back in his carriage now. Oh, by Mr. entomologie. carriage of time carriage. Okay, so there are two main types of oysters. The first one let's just get this out of the way is the pearl oyster.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:41
Oh, so the ones we eat are not pearloid. That's correct. Oysters. Pearl oysters
Molly 14:45
are actually well here. Let's talk about this. Let's just cut ahead to Pearl oysters. Okay, so Pearl oysters like here's the deal. So almost all mollusks that have a shell can secrete pearls. Yeah. But most of them are not very valuable. Unlike unlike human human commodities scale, Pearl oysters are not closely related to the other type we're going to talk about in a minute which are which are true oysters. Okay, Pearl oysters are members of their own family in nature. This is so cool. I know this in nature Pearl oysters make pearls by covering a tiny invasive object. I did know this nacre so nacre being mother of pearl it's like this composite material produced by Melissa mollusks as a an inner shell layer and you can recognize it by its like iridescent shine, right? So yeah, like, basically like there's like a little irritating object that gets inside an oyster and the way the oyster responds is by covering it with layers and layers of nacre over time. Eventually it becomes a pearl it is so fully covered in this mother of pearl stuff. And the many different types and colors and shapes of pearls depend on the natural pigment of the nacre and the shape of the original irritant.
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:10
Okay, so if you're curious if you have like a pearl necklace and you're curious you can like crack those puppies open and see what the original irritant was happen if you cracked it open if you cracked open a pearl I bet this is on on YouTube.
Molly 16:24
I bet it is too. Anyway so Pearl farmers so these days the demand for pearls like far outstrips natural Pearl making right so there are such things as cultured pearls which are basically like farmed pearls. So Pearl farmers culture a pearl by placing a nucleus is what they call it, but it's usually like a piece of polished mussel shell oh nice inside an oyster and in three to seven years the oyster will have made it into a pearl. Wow. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 16:54
only three to seven years. three to seven years.
Molly 16:56
Yeah. But this led me to a philosophical thought. Like do you think that making pearls out of irritants is akin to making lemonade from lemons?
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:11
Hmm Do did the oyster squeeze the irritants?
Molly 17:16
Probably by just having them inside their shell they're probably your your sounds like if I get a splinter deep enough I can turn it into a pearl okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:26
I thought you were just trying to make the phrase making pearls out of irritants which seems unlikely but but let's no let's go on let's let's move on to this more interesting question. Like if you get if you get a sliver like in the movie sliver Can you like turn it into my secrete
Molly 17:42
enough? Mother of Pearl I'm going to work on learning how to secrete mother per
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:48
you are you are a mother and you've secreted other it's true, do
Molly 17:51
you but do you think that I could like the way that we can like seed clouds to actually work? I don't know. But could I like to secede my like sweat glands with nacre? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:02
think you should try disgusting. That's not I've got we've talked about way more disgusting thing. Okay.
Molly 18:07
All right. Well, okay, so that's Pearl oysters. Okay, so So in contrast, what we're going to focus on here are true oysters. Not my word.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:16
Right? I was gonna say like, how did the pearl oysters feel about the other ones being called True oysters can
Molly 18:20
hate it. Yeah. So oh, I should like this comes
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:23
up all the time in biology because there's like there's like a class. There's a taxon of insects called True bugs. And you got to think like all the rest of the bugs are like Yeah, fuck you.
Molly 18:34
Totally. No, I was thinking about that about like pearls, like which pearls have value and which ones don't like Oh yeah, it's very silly. It's very silly. I should also say that there are a bunch of bivalve mollusks that are not at all taxonomically related to oysters, but their common names include the word oyster like Rocky Mountain Oysters now, that just came to mind. But these include such things as thorny oysters, which are the genus Spondylus or spondee loss sponding that spawned a loose okay, very popular in the Philippines. All right. So this is a different kind of bivalve and it's crazy. If you look up thorny oyster, you'll see it looks like a very round clam shell that has like porcupine spines. Wow, it's wild. Scallops are apparently sometimes called pilgrim oyster. Never heard of that. Ever heard that? And jingle shells which I often find on the beach. Actually, they have mother of pearl to the jingle
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:34
all the way. They do.
Molly 19:38
They are sometimes called saddle oyster. Okay, okay, but none of these things are actually oysters. So let's talk about true oysters you
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:45
get sometimes get the feeling that like things were named by like some guy who only knew one word. The opposite of VISTA etymology. That's
Molly 19:54
right. Okay, so true oysters are members of the family use Am I Oh?
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:01
I just got I just got gotcha Austria it.
Molly 20:05
That's right. That's right. Pearl oysters are not in Australia, by the way. Okay, so true oysters are members of Austria de and Australia are super old this family evolved in the
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:17
least three to seven years old. Yes,
Molly 20:19
those are the pearls. Austria de members of the Austria the family evolved in the early Triassic era. So that is pretty old 250 million years ago. That's like before Jurassic Park Yes. Yeah, they wait for Blum hadn't been born
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:36
That's right. Way before Cretaceous park this joke brought to you by Mr. Geology
Molly 20:45
all edible oysters are true oysters. Okay, so all edible oysters are within Austrian
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:52
history not counting the not counting like the thorny oysters and things that are.
Molly 20:56
That's right. Those are not oysters. Okay, so edible oysters then belong to many different genera. Yeah, so there's like, oh stria crass, so stria Oh, Streel LA. Okay, I'm missing all this. Oh, no, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:13
want you to say all these correctly.
Molly 21:16
And Seco stria
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:19
Yeah, like they it sounds like they start off with Osteria like Crassostrea. Like, like, what a
Molly 21:24
crass oyster sack. Oh, yeah. So this is where we get to start talking about the fact that like Eastern oysters or East Coast oysters are actually a different genera from Pacific oysters.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:40
It's not just they grow bigger on the East Coast. That's because like people like like pizza in New York are throwing pizza crusts. That's
Molly 21:47
correct. Also, Olympia oysters, which you may be familiar with.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:51
Those are my favorite oyster tea.
Molly 21:53
Really? I'm going to talk more about this in a minute. They are a separate genera as well. Separate genus separate gene genus. Okay, so here, for instance, the Eastern oyster, which is also called the Atlantic oyster, the American oyster, the East Coast oyster. It is, would you say the taxonomic name of it, please? Crassostrea virginica. That's right. It is a species of true oyster native to eastern North and South America. Okay, so you may also see it as the Wellfleet oyster the Virginia oyster malpeque bluepoint Chesapeake Bay or Appa lay Chola.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:32
Apalachicola,
Molly 22:33
Apalachicola oyster cod, I am I've never heard of that. But it's really fun to say I haven't either. See virginica, you can find it from like Northern New Brunswick all the way through parts of the West Indies to Venezuela. Okay. And it's farmed like an all the maritime provinces of Canada and all along the eastern seaboard and the Gulf states. And there is actually one type of sea virginica that we encounter here that's farmed in Puget Sound and that is the Totten inlet Virginica. Okay, I've heard of teach and lead. Yeah, it was also introduced to the Hawaiian Islands, so you may encounter it on a vacation in Hawaii, for instance. All right. Okay, now on the other hand, Pacific oysters are a whole other genus they are Maga Alana. Ji guess how would you say? I
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:24
never know how to say that. There's like there's like a blend I guess. gite I like I don't know what that word means. But it appears in a lot of species names. So maybe it's like somebody's name.
Molly 23:37
Well, I do know Magalona Is that what you mean?
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:40
No gagis appears in a lot of species names like the like the the guy guess giant clam guy I guess maybe it means giant Yeah, it means giant.
Molly 23:50
I'm not sure why these would be called giant because in general they are a bit smaller. Okay, then then the eat maybe
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:57
maybe they're like giant compared to other oysters in the mog Alana genus, maybe wild guess
Molly 24:03
maybe? Well, so yeah. So Eastern oyster is the Crassostrea virginica. The Pacific oyster is the Magalona guy guess. And so any like Japanese oyster varieties, you might see it Oh, my moto. That's right, the Kumamoto, et cetera. Anyway, this is an oyster native to the Pacific coast of Asia. And it's become an introduced species in like North America and Australia and Europe and New Zealand. I didn't know there are a lot of there's a lot of oyster farming in New Zealand, specifically Pacific oysters. Of course, this genus is named for the Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan. Oh, that makes sense. Alana, the shell of this guy looks quite different from the shell of an Eastern oyster. Okay, so in general, Pacific oyster has a quite cupped bottom shell and the top shell is much flatter and sometimes concave all right but the bottom is is usually like I can finalize that cupped whereas East Coast oysters tend to have frilly or bottom cups frilly or bottoms. Okay, but I don't think that's always the case because we certainly see frilly oysters out here too. So I don't really know I think this is an overgeneralization Thanks for nothing, we can pedia. But basically, the shell of M gagis varies widely with the environment where it's this shell
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:29
of M gagis. Sounds sounds like some like serious book club book.
Molly 25:34
It does, right. They're super temperature tolerant and like really easy to grow. Okay. And they spread easily. In fact, in some cases, like in some parts of the world, they're considered an invasive species. Okay, so all of this means that they are the most widely farmed and commercially important oyster in the whole world.
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:52
So what about and maybe you don't know the answer to this, but maybe you do. I don't. What about the other genera of oysters like, oh, Streel and Austria, and so I
Molly 26:04
didn't learn much about those. Okay. Yeah, I didn't learn much about those. Well, you know, what I also kind of overlooked here is, so the Olympia oyster is neither Crassostrea virginica or Magalona gagis. It's a different thing. And I wonder if it's one of those? Yeah, so Pacific oysters are, you know, definitely the dominant one where we are
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:28
Austria, Florida is the Olympia oyster. Okay. Yep, you're absolutely right.
Molly 26:34
The most significant introduction of Pacific oysters for like commercial cultivation was to the Pacific Coast of the US in the 1920s. And France in the 1960s. Yeah.
So I always wondered why oysters are so expensive, when they are also like quite abundant. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:05
that's a good point. I mean, at least relatively abundant. I'm gonna guess that's partly because they take a long time to grow. But yes,
Molly 27:12
I mean, I think actually, my perception of abundance is actually not very abundant compared to how they used to be. Ah, so let's talk about a little history here. All right. So do you know what a midden is?
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:25
I do. Tell us what a mitten it's like when it's when you're like doing like an archeological dig and you find really old garbage. That's interesting. There's probably more to it than that. But that's basically the
Molly 27:37
idea. No, a mitten is an ancient garbage pile. Okay, an ancient like human garbage pile. We are a garbage man. And by that I mean a man who is garbage Yeah, you're not a garbage.
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:52
I'm not I'm not a trash collector.
Molly 27:54
You're one of the good ones. Oh, but but trash collectors mean that said no. You hate trash collection. I don't a trash collectors. I am so grateful to my trash collectors. Okay, so we can tell from middens that oysters have been important food sources for humans since like prehistoric times. Yeah, way back when they've been cultivated in what is now Japan since 2000 BCE. That kind of doesn't surprise me. And I guess that would be the Pacific oyster because that's where it originated. Anyway, so interesting. In the UK, they've been farming oysters in an area called the Kentish flats since Roman times. The Cavendish flats Yeah. According to Wikipedia, in Victorian England, it was quite common for people to go to the pub and enjoy their favorite beer with some oysters. They quickly realized that the quote rich sweet multi stouts I'm not sure who Wikipedia was quoting. were great with the quote briny creamy oyster. I mean, they do make that sound good. Right? Then brewers found that oyster shells naturally clarify a beer I've heard of this. Why have I heard of this? I don't know. They started putting crushed oyster shells in their brews. The first brewery known to do this was in 1938, at the Hamerton brewery in London,
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:11
and they would just do this at the bar, right? They're just like the order of beer. They just like put it spoonful of crushed oyster shells in there.
Molly 29:17
That's how I like it. I really liked it up. I like the burn when the oyster shells go down I like Gouger esophagus. In the early 1800s. oysters were cheap, which made them like a beloved food among the working class this
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:34
was there a book about this by like that, you know, Mark Kurlansky. Probably. I feel like there may be there. Well, I think I read a book about the history of oysters. Okay, this this seems like something when I was like a food writer. Yeah, yeah, oysters were.
Molly 29:50
They were hugely popular in New York City, in part because throughout the 1800s oyster beds in New York Harbor were the largest source of oysters. in the entire world. So oysters were hugely popular in New York City, and eventually rising demand just completely exhausted the beds. And so they introduced some like new species of oysters, which then brought in diseases.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:14
Sorry, I'm giggling at the phrase exhausted the beds exhausted the fence.
Molly 30:18
bappy Have you ever exhausted a bit? Hell yeah. Anyway, and then of course, like erosion, and then pollution and all that fucked everything up by the early 1900s. Because oysters were so popular and now so scarce, the prices went way up, shaking them inexpensive delicacy. And even though like oyster farming is very common and very successful. They do still, they're still a delicacy. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:47
now I am realizing that because like, I if someone orders like oysters on the half shell, I will eat a couple. So you know, I don't fear them anymore. But they're still not like a thing I crave and so I don't order them myself. And as a result, if we were like, participating in like a political debate, if, if I was asked like, what's a what's a reasonable price to pay for a dozen oysters? I would be like, mocked in in embarrassing headlines the next day because I'd say I don't know, like $8. Is that what you really think? Yeah. Really? Is that Is that too much?
Molly 31:21
I think of oysters as being like, I think like two to $3 per
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:27
Oh, okay. Oysters are too low. Okay.
Molly 31:30
You're very low. All right. Yeah. I mean, but I'm thinking like a restaurant in Seattle, which is a very expensive city. Yeah, I really don't know. Also, because I don't eat oysters very often because they're so expensive. Yeah. All right. I think the last time I had oysters was months and months ago at a place called Harry's beach house in West Seattle. And I think my mom and I shared a half dozen oysters and I remember thinking it was $18. Okay, for a half dozen oysters. All right. Okay, so we could spend a long time talking about how these things are cultivated. Like there are two main methods cetera it's interesting. We can also talk about their ability to filter water like humans have actually, like, in many places, put oysters to work, cleaning water, what
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:16
do they do? Do they filter the water the same way they filter the beer?
Molly 32:20
That's right. Yeah. You crush them up and you just put them in the water? Yep. No, that's not how it works. But we're not going to get into all that because I want to talk about eating them. Okay. Yes. Let's do that. Great. Okay, Matthew, how do you eat these things? Like,
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:34
fried? I liked that roasted oyster dish and raw if someone else has ordered some that's basically it.
Molly 32:40
So you wouldn't order some? No, no.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:43
Ha. You know, I think I'm getting the feeling because I feel like I've been saying this recently on the show a lot that like, you know, this is a food that I'm interested in, but isn't like one of my favorite things necessarily. And maybe we already did all of the foods I liked in our last 800 episodes or whatever.
Molly 33:00
Do you think we've reached the end of foods that you love?
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:03
Maybe no, we'll, we'll think of some more.
Molly 33:06
Oh my god,
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:07
I miscounted this episode 612.
Molly 33:10
Okay. Wow. When you eat raw oysters, do you chew?
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:14
Yes. i Yeah, I do. Because Because I'm afraid of choking.
Molly 33:21
is I really want you to Yeah, for sure. Not to release the flavor or not? Because that's what we do with food.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:28
Oh, that's probably another reason. But like, I know, I know that you're supposed to kind of gulp but no, you're supposed to do you're like who makes the rules?
Molly 33:36
I make the rule. Okay. No. So, yeah, it's interesting. I too, don't want to choke. I can't imagine swallowing an oyster hole. Why would I do that? The other thing is, the texture is like surprisingly firm. In a good oyster. Yeah, not firm. But like, I like the texture of like, I kind of know it with my tea. Definitely.
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:59
Like having said that, like, I never ordered them myself. Which is true. Like everyone. I every time I eat when I'm like, this does feel like a special experience. It's
Molly 34:06
so delicious. And really like, I feel like oysters and sometimes like a really good cheese like these things can like give me pause for a minute in a good way. Like like pause. Yeah, like very pause. No, they can like really kind of just make me like, just stop back and like really savor Yeah, in a way that, uh, not a lot of foods do. But what I wanted to say is I remember when I was still quite new to eating oysters. Wow, this is gonna sound really pretentious. Okay, I was traveling in France with friend of the show Frances lamb. We went to this oyster place in Paris called like, I don't know this word is going to sound really terrible coming out of my mouth like we totally like Yeah. Oh, history. Yeah, we totally have a G. This is like, I feel like I'm just sounding like I have something stuck in my throat. But anyway, A boy's story rageous Okay, and we went there specifically just to eat oysters like before dinner one night as like a fancy thing to do. And I remember watching Francis eat an oyster was one of the strangest experiences in my life up to that moment because yeah, like
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:19
a long prehensile tongue. He
Molly 35:22
put it in his mouth, and proceeded to to so much and practically like swish the oyster around in his mouth, like getting all the flavor going. And I think that like, this is a beautiful thing. Like for somebody to really get all the flavor out of something like that, but I can't. I don't want to keep an oyster in my mouth that long. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:45
I can understand. Yeah, Francis likes to talk about shoeing. He likes swished with the oyster. Sure. When you were talking about that it made me ask a question that I don't think we're going to answer. Even though sometimes I portray the popular character Mr. Etymology when you said, we clearly is that French for Osteria? That like isn't Osteria Italy? Was that like originally an oyster place? Or is it a totally different rule? I
Molly 36:11
don't know. Hey, Dave. Hey, if any of our listeners would like to moonlight as Mr. entomology Hey, yeah, like, send us an email. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:20
we can also Google it like,
Molly 36:21
oh, we can also. Yeah, well, that's fine. Anyway, I like to eat oysters raw. And I do chew. I think I probably chew like three or four times. Okay. I like to eat them raw with a squeeze of lemon. Oh, yeah. My favorite shots. What about minion net? I like that. I'm okay with Minion and I prefer lemon. Do you usually pick them up on a fork and put them in your mouth or do you toss them back?
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:46
I like I want to have like a little fork to like coax them as like pick up the shelf like tilted in my mouth. And I want to like coax it in with a little fork and just in case it doesn't start sliding of its own accord. Yeah,
Molly 36:57
yeah. No, that's that's I think that's what I do too. Okay. Yeah. I also like fried oysters, but I just don't really care fried oysters or like, whatever.
Matthew Amster-Burton 37:05
Yeah, no, I'm thinking of like the, you know, the Japanese style like khaki for dye, which is with with panco. And like, you know, really beautifully cry had that like, those are really good.
Molly 37:15
Okay, I've had some really delicious fried oysters with like a cilantro aoli or something. I think like the walrus and the carpenter and it was delicious. But I prefer raw. My family in Baltimore. My mom's family used to have oyster stew every Christmas and they would make more of a soup than a stew right is Yeah, I mean, it's quite thin. The last time they had it. I remember I was already living here and I flew home with a pack of ice around a like a pint container of shucked oysters from like Taylor Shellfish or something. Like do people usually use candle Eastern oysters are not raw.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:00
Right. And I think oysters do is typically made with fresh oysters. I was going to ask you about the oysters in a jar though because that format kind of skeeves me I don't know that I could ever eat that. Like here's me. Yeah, cuz I like happily you know, pick up an oyster shell off of a bed of ice or salt or whatever. But like the idea of like fork and one up out of a jar.
Molly 38:20
You wrote in the memory lane portion of the agenda that your dad like smoked oyster. Sure. So would that be smoked from a can? Muscles? I don't I don't think I could do that. Yeah, I don't think so. Either. Interesting, huh? Okay, so Matthew, we should talk about the fact that yes, oysters are alive when we eat them. Okay. So basically, yeah, oysters in order to be safe to eat. They need to be alive at the moment of shucking or cooking. Okay? Generally, if an oyster can't like, like, if if an oyster shell is open, and you tap it, and it can't, like tightly re close, its shell, it's probably dead. Okay. Sometimes oysters won't open if if they're dead. And apparently, they will make like a distinctive sound. If they won't open and they're dead. They're called clackers. So
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:13
you just like put your ear up to the shell and listen for the sound.
Molly 39:17
No, it's like if you happen or something, okay, it makes a particular sound because
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:21
it's sort of like hollow inside because it's because it's like shrunken back.
Molly 39:24
I think sometimes they're filled with sand when they're dead. I don't know. Yeah, I don't want that. I don't want that. But in general, yes. If you're eating raw oysters, they are alive and you need them to be or else they're not. Okay, gonna be safe to eat.
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:38
I'm fine with that. Yeah,
Molly 39:39
I'm okay with it too. Matthew, like have you heard about the old adage about like, months that you can eat oysters
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:47
that you you should eat oysters only in months with are in and that's March, February, September, several other months
Molly 40:00
Oh, yes, I think it's all months. Except May, June, July and August. Okay. And anyway, it's it's a myth, but it's based in truth. I mean, basically, the idea is that at least in the northern hemisphere, oysters are much more likely to spoil or have some sort of like disease. When the water is warmer,
Matthew Amster-Burton 40:21
is it also related to like spawning season?
Molly 40:23
That's not what I found. But but it could be. I mean, I just made that up. No, no, I mean, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, these days, especially in Seattle, you're gonna find great oysters year round, and and there are going to be certain varieties where the water is colder in whatever inlet or whatever, whatever inlet whatever inlet. Yeah, I mean, in general, it makes sense that you would not have them in the summer but around here, especially where, I don't know there's a tremendous amount of oyster farming and it's done really well. We eat oysters year round, and the water is pretty cold year round. The water is pretty darn cold here year round. Yeah. So I don't know about like on the Atlantic coast, where the water tends to be warmer.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:07
Sure. Okay, so what makes different kinds of oysters tastes different.
Molly 41:13
Yeah. Okay. So, you know, obviously, some of it is going to be the type of oyster that it is like the the genus, but most of it is going to be where it's grown. So like water salinity, water, alkalinity, mineral content in the water, or in, you know, in the environment. So for instance, like, around here, we get, let's say, Hama Hama oil, like, I don't know what makes it such that a particular place like Hama, Hama, which is an oyster grower and oyster producer here in Washington State. They do grow a certain type of oyster that they call Hama. Hama has but I think they call they grow other types, too. Sure. And I don't really know how that works exactly. Like are they just growing them in different beds in different beds? Or growing in different beds? Yeah. Okay. Like different areas, otherwise,
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:08
they'd get very confused. Well, the oysters would,
Molly 42:11
yes, yes. But in general, like, it really is. It's the the tail wha
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:18
Great. One more French word and work.
Molly 42:24
Anyway, yeah. So of course, you know, an East Coast oyster is going to have a sort of, you know, differences from a Pacific oyster but even within Pacific oysters there are there's tons of variation not only in the shell shape and in the flavor, the brininess even in like the fattiness I mean that has to do with where they are in like their spawning. Okay, that makes sense. There are definitely times of year when the they're like fatter and creamier and other times of year when they're kind of thinner. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:55
that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. My favorites are the are the Olympia is and I think it's partly because they're small. And so like when I when I started being like, I could eat an oyster like but I want it to be like a little one that I that I don't have to like really wrangle with. And so that's kind of still my favorite.
Molly 43:12
I mean, cookies, and cookies and Kumamoto, those are pretty Yes, yes, I like those too. And then some oysters are tumbled a Hama Hama is I believe Tomas that mean so the shell is going to have a different look to it because it's like something is done to the bed or maybe they're bagged or something where basically like the oysters are rotated and the shells take it slightly different shape.
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:40
Oh, no about this at all. Yes, some
Molly 43:42
oysters are tumbled. I may be getting this wrong. Later Hama Hama as you
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:46
know I went to I went to lapidary camp as a child and we tumbled rocks. I forgot
Molly 43:51
about that. You probably just told me that like Two episodes ago. Probably. Yeah. Matthew, have you ever had an Olympia oyster that tasted like pennies? Because when I like I remember being told the first time I encountered one that they can often have like a metallic flavor. I have
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:08
noticed a metallic flavor in an oyster. I think well, it's unpleasant. Well, but
Molly 44:13
I've had a couple of Olympians that truly tasted like licking pennies.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:17
Did you? Are you sure you didn't drop some pennies?
Molly 44:22
Anyway, Matthew, I think that's all I've got. Okay. Yeah, I thought we're not going to talk about shucking them because neither of us is ever shocked them.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:29
No, but I mean, it looks like a cool thing to do. Like I've probably hurt myself.
Molly 44:35
I mean, it's it's really just about like inserting the knife in the right place, twisting it in a certain way and then you you basically separate the adductor muscle from the shell that after being what allows the oyster to close its shell.
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:47
I feel like it's a thing that I could pretend that I might be good at, unless I actually try it and then and then I would know that I wasn't on Yeah, I mean, I understand it's a skill that you have to learn but I'm not going to.
Molly 44:57
I feel like you and me and producer at Have you eaten oysters together somehow it's possible I think we have but we didn't shock them maybe on our upcoming retreat maybe we'll find some sort of bed oyster bed Yeah we'll just harvest them and or you
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:13
were gonna say find some sort of wheat cookie right that's it the bell just went off like That's true said it you didn't say like you if you say one more French word I said if we say one more French word. Okay,
Molly 45:27
well Matt seems like this is going to be our shows last now but wow
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:32
that's right because not because we're retiring the segment because we're retiring ourselves
Molly 45:37
Yep, we got canceled
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:46
my now but wow, this week is a song and it's the song Black Mirror by no name. And if you haven't heard this song like do it now because because it's going off the market because because it's super fun so it is it is a rap song by rapper no name who is having a real moment and it's got this beautiful like Sunny Beach Boys like backing track and funny and pointed Lyrics by I think one of the most exciting rappers working today so here's here's a an excerpt of the lyrics which I will not try to rap. She is the Wilson to my Castaway shaggy beard after shave prickled chin that's okay, gender is dimension one we live in dimension four. So, like no names music is political and joyous and fun all at once. And this song is from her fantastic new album sundial and I recommend so that's black mirror by no name
Molly 46:41
delightful. Our producer is Abbey circuit tele.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:44
Molly has a newsletter called I've got a feeling that you can access at Molly weisenberg.substack.com And you should access
Molly 46:52
Oh, thanks Matthew. Matthew makes music Matthew has a band called early to the airport.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:57
I do not and I have a new project called Twilight dinars you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts and you can hang out with other spilled milk listeners or aka milkmaids at everything spilled milk.reddit.com
Molly 47:14
I'm I'm really glad you listened to spilled milk everybody
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:18
we're both we're just we're just glad glad handers was glad handing
Molly 47:23
I don't know doesn't it mean to like promise things to get let's look it up
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:29
that makes sense. Okay, let's look at let's for our closing joke we're gonna look up a word this is very sorry look up Oh, sorry. Oh,
Molly 47:38
go glad
Matthew Amster-Burton 47:40
I mean your I think I think your your idea sounds plausible to me, but it's one of the things I realized I know this is a word people don't say it much anymore.
Molly 47:48
Okay, okay, so it's especially set of a politician to greet or welcome warmly or with the appearance of warmth. Oh, okay. That's glad handing supporters for instance. Yeah,
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:00
no, we're a couple of a couple of podcast glad handers like as soon as we stop the tape, we become morose. I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly 48:09
I'm Molly Weisenberg. Became morose
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:11
Amster-Burton.
Recording
Molly 48:24
Oh, that was good. Okay
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:33
that was that was very satisfying the other day when I laughed until I cry. Especially because it was the stupidest Yeah,
Molly 48:39
so Did you cry like as in like tears came out? It turned to sobs to
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:45
it turned to sobs
Molly 48:47
like, like you were just getting something out of your system. Yeah, totally. That's great.
Matthew Amster-Burton 48:53
I say it again. There's a chance that will happen.
Molly 48:57
Okay, here we go. All right.