Today we cement our legacy with an update on The Fruit on The Bottom Yogurt Challenge as we mark the perimeter of this episode. We chase trailing vines, bog bodies and sauce for the pilgrims as we shrug it out before being pumped from the bed.
Episode 564: Dried Fruit Showdown
Cranberry streusel shortbread bars
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Molly 0:04
I'm Matthew and I'm Molly and
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:06
this has spilled milk the sugary cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any today
Molly 0:11
we are going to do an episode that we have sort of if this episode is is is a can we've been kicking this can down the road.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:19
And it is a handful of cranberry. The cranberry episode Yeah,
Molly 0:23
we keep coming around to this episode and going wait a minute, they're not going to be any cranberries in the market and then we keep having to postpone it and here we are. We're finally doing
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:32
you know what listeners are probably asking themselves did we have to let it linger?
Molly 0:36
Oh my god, Matthew, that's
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:39
gonna get cranberries jokes out of my system that was it, or do you think there's
Molly 0:42
gonna be there's gonna be more okay, there's gonna be more. But you know, Matthew before we begin, because I've got a lot to tell the listener about cranberry juice you. I did the research for this episode like the agenda here.
Matthew Amster-Burton 0:53
And it's like the Gutenberg Bible.
Molly 0:55
It is exhaustive. Before we get into that. I want to know, Matthew, did you do the upside down yogurt challenge you we were talking about in the last episode. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:06
we need to we need to set this up for the listeners in case they didn't listen to last week's episode or don't remember it like we don't remember any episode. Last week, we did an episode called upside down foods, which, where we talked about upside down foods. That's right, which is a very loosely defined category. And one thing we talked about and we I feel like we came up with this idea together,
Molly 1:28
I think I came up with the idea of fruit on the bottom yogurt.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:32
Okay, you came up with the idea of fruit on the bottom yogurt. And I came up with the idea of what if you inverted fruit on the bottom yogurt and turn it out of the yogurt cup and served it like a Flon? Is that even physically possible? Would it be good? What would happen? Would this make us legends on tic tock or at least go viral?
Molly 1:51
Yes. I remember when you suggested that. I was pretty excited about it. And honestly, I thought we were going to do this together.
Matthew Amster-Burton 1:57
But we are going to do it together. You did. Okay. Okay. Well, I couldn't help I couldn't resist trying it with my wife. But then but now, but now we're here together and I only and and I was going to try and like, you know, downplay but yes, I absolutely try it without you. Yeah. Okay. And they sent you a picture. Okay,
Molly 2:15
so here's the deal. You did it. You took a like single serving cup of Greek yogurt. Yeah, it had fruit on the bottom. And tell me about how you did. He took the foil off
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:25
the foil off. That's very important. And then I like ran around the edge with a knife but with a butter knife, and then kind of plunked it against a plate and lifted the yogurt cup off. Should we should we do this now?
Molly 2:39
Oh, I mean, sure. Yeah, let's do it. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:44
Okay, so something something weird, has
Molly 2:48
jostle. I can't believe you're serving me a jostled yogurt.
Matthew Amster-Burton 2:52
Okay, but so some of the fruit on the bottom has already like made its way to the top, but I'm still gonna do this. Okay. Okay, you ready?
Molly 2:59
Oh my God. Look at that. That looks really good. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:03
now dig in. Okay, so we have we have an inverted Telemark strawberry Greek yogurt. Okay, and we're gonna eat it Flon style. That's good, right?
Molly 3:14
I mean, the only thing that's disconcerting about it to me or makes it not believable, as like a quality dessert or something. It is no fruit puree is ever this color in me. Sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:24
Yeah, I mean of the fruit purees that you encounter in nature for you. You're right now this color.
Molly 3:30
It's so it's so pale. Now, it's also got a tinge of gray too. It's like that Grateful Dead song touch of gray.
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:40
I was gonna say that if you didn't, I got the wrong yogurt from the fridge. This is a blended yogurt. Absolutely inappropriate.
Molly 3:46
But Matthew, this is really gratifying. Right?
Matthew Amster-Burton 3:48
So I think either people are already doing this and we've rediscovered it. No, or if people aren't doing it. This is going to be our one chance to go via
Molly 3:58
this. Uh, well, I was thought you were gonna say this is gonna be our one chance to contribute something lasting to humanity. And I think you're right I think this is it for us. Okay, now what do we have?
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:08
Okay, so this is this is a Kroger fruit on the bottom blueberry and I like how on the foil on the top, just fruit on the bottom and huge letters like this is such an important innovation
Molly 4:19
but what I really like is that fruit and bottom are in a larger typeface that's drawn
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:23
naturally just says Kroger fruit bada
Molly 4:26
Okay, so this is not a Greek yogurt This
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:29
is not a Greek yogurt so I'm curious whether it's gonna like hold it shape I don't I don't either. I think it's gonna I think it's gonna slump it's gonna be but Okay, here we go see I don't even know don't
Molly 4:42
think it's gonna come out
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:48
okay, so do not do this with with non Greek yogurt.
Molly 4:53
We didn't last the fruit. The fruit has stuck to the bottom. We lost
Matthew Amster-Burton 4:56
everything like okay, this is all All Yeah, okay. All right even look at it so, but like, we got to get on tick tock because like if the Tick Tock was like first of all, like perfectly moulding out the Greek yogurt and then like and then we're like, hey, this works well let's try it with non Greek yogurt. And then just like it just like slew ages out. Like I don't even want to taste this, but I will do such a good sport. No,
Molly 5:25
I think part of what is so nice about the Greek one is Greek yogurt has already this kind of almost like pota cram texture, right. And then the the fruit on the on the bottom truly is like a coolie kind of
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:38
vibe. Yeah, this is good. All right, so that was our cranberry episode. Thanks for tuning in.
Molly 5:43
I like that. It was tasty.
Matthew Amster-Burton 5:46
This like this is gonna be the new thing. Is this gonna be like the new dessert you serve for company? It could be Yeah, like pretty good. If I if I didn't tell people what it was like, Yeah, molded it out a little better than this one. Like they would go ape,
Molly 6:00
they would go. You know what I would also be interested in doing? I mean, if you really wanted to make this into a truly thinking garnishes. No, I think and get the plain vanilla Greek yogurt and then make your own like raspberry puree. Yeah, bristle that up. But that's that's classing it up too much. That's
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:21
yeah, I think I think like and then I then I think I would argue about like, whether it's really an upside down food anymore. But I mean, we did say like anything you turn out of a mold is an upside down food.
Molly 6:32
Mm hmm.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:36
We're not really going to get on tick tock because we're way too lazy.
Molly 6:38
So we're gonna say this. We're way too old.
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:42
I bet I bet the golden bachelors on tick tock.
Molly 6:44
I think that we may have cut out the golden bachelor. See, we're
Matthew Amster-Burton 6:48
talking about the golden bachelor during the break. And he's on Tik Tok and ready to mingle. He's okay, there probably is a mingle feature. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna put away I want to sit in front of yogurt for the whole episode. Especially this one front of me. Looks like a contagion. Yeah, that's right there. Okay, it is the scary the spookiest month of the year November so.
Molly 7:18
Okay, so you know what, Matthew while you're doing that I'm gonna sort of set the parameters. I'm gonna I'm gonna mark the perimeter of today's
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:31
on Yeah, I immediately when I thought oh,
Molly 7:34
no, what am I trying to say? I'm gonna establish the parameters
Matthew Amster-Burton 7:38
of today's episode. Yeah, you're gonna mark your territory.
Molly 7:42
Which is to say, even though today's episode is about cranberries, we are not going to talk about cranberry juice. We're going to do that as a separate episode. We're also not going to talk about dried cranberries because Well honestly, there's nothing to say about them. And also we did on the dried fruit show.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:00
There's nothing to say about them. So it was perfect for our chef. So the only two things that are that are like within your your territory are fresh cranberries, things made with fresh cranberries and upside down yogurt.
Molly 8:13
Absolutely not. No Matthew. There's also like cranberry sauces, cranberries and baked goods.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:19
So those are the are those things made with fresh cranberries? Not necessarily
Molly 8:23
baked goods have dried cranberries. Are we not going to even talk about that?
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:27
I don't think so. Because like we talked a whole bunch about that holiday cookie from Sunset Magazine with the dried cranberries coconut in orange. Yeah, wherever when we did like seven holiday cookie episodes in a row. Okay, fair. Okay, if you if you we're going to talk about a special thing made with dried cranberries. I'm not going to pee on your
Molly 8:46
I never used dried cranberries.
Matthew Amster-Burton 8:51
So we argued it we had an argument for no reason. Really just an argument. Yeah, I mean, things got pretty heated in a minute. I did
Molly 9:00
have to take my sweater on. It's true. Okay, Matthew, let's go down memory lane.
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:05
Okay. Okay, so I have not much of a cranberry eater. So I'm going to do my best to participate in this extensive episode.
Molly 9:13
Wait, is this because you are not much of a condiment man? Well, I'm not much of a condiment, man and not much of a fruit man. And we already established this like 18 times,
Matthew Amster-Burton 9:23
I think, Well, I think I've become more comfortable expressing it. Okay, right. No, no, I get it like that. I feel like I should like fruit and I don't hate fruit like some people do. Like I do. espouse. I do eat fruit, like a couple times a week, but certainly not every day. And if you told me like fruit was going away, like I'd be like, okay, like,
Molly 9:46
and so when you say you become more comfortable expressing it You mean you've just begun to you know, just be okay without that aspect of yourself. Yeah, I guess so. Ash was reminding me the other day about with the time that my therapist this was like years ago, I think in the middle of my divorce, I said something to my therapist about how like how much I hated how judgmental I was like, on the inside of my head like that. I knew I was being
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:12
and I hated it. I feel like I've gotten maybe 10% better at that.
Molly 10:16
Anyway, he said to me, he was like, well, so you're judgmental, like, okay, so what you can either decide that this is just a part of who you are. Or you can decide that you want to redirect the way you think. But like, just sitting around feeling bad about
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:36
such good advice? Yeah. Like, like, I feel like I feel like this is like advice that that wife of the show, Laurie and I give each other periodically, just like, okay, like, if you're worried about this thing, either, like, make a plan to do something about it or decide like this is not actually important to you, and you're not going to do something about it.
Molly 10:54
I feel like this really, hold on. I know, we're veering off the show here. But
Matthew Amster-Burton 10:59
as you know, he said at the beginning this show, this episode's gonna be on three things, fresh cranberries, upside down yogurts and stuff we learned in there. But really, I went there and was told me take take various foods and just turn them upside down and see what happens. Great advice.
Molly 11:14
Oh, no, but I was thinking about it recently. I feel like that was like a game changing revelation. I think it probably came up maybe right before I turned 40. And I really feel like it is carried over into so many parts of my life. Like I can be like, Okay, well, I wish I were the kind of person who did x, but I'm not. Okay. Yeah, I can change that or not,
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:35
right. Like, I like to think of myself as the kind of person who gives a fuck about everything, but I can't actually do that no one can so like, I have to, I have to like pick and choose.
Molly 11:46
That's right. Yeah. And there are certain things you can care about a lot and probably make a difference to Yes. And other things. You can't Yeah. Well, there ends our episode.
Matthew Amster-Burton 11:54
Okay, now, I got an idea. What if we did an episode about cranberries? Oh, my God. Really? Yeah. I mean, we're here. We don't have any cranberries. But we have we have a tome about cranberries.
Molly 12:05
Okay. Well, since you hold on, we'll come back to your memory lane in a minute. There's not a lot on it, but there's stuff on mine. So Okay. All right. So I of course, like like most people in North America associate cranberries with thanksgiving, whether Canadian or US Thanksgiving. I think that the first cranberry dish that I remember having a Thanksgiving was my dad's raw cranberry relish. Okay. And I don't know if everybody calls it relish to when it's in. It's like raw form.
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:34
I certainly know the kind of thing you're talking about. And I would call it a relish. Yeah, I mean, my dad would like take, what other term would bite you use?
Molly 12:43
I don't know. Cranberry
Matthew Amster-Burton 12:45
compote. Now that sounds that sounds cooked.
Molly 12:47
Okay, well, anyway, he would take raw cranberries sugar, and either some orange vest or I think sometimes like, like almost like a whole orange or something and put it in the food processor. So delicious with the path and everything. Maybe not. I mean, my dad has been gone for many years. Now. I don't remember the details of some of this. You do have a pith helmet. Anyway. So I remember that being the first kind of cranberry stuff we would have at Thanksgiving. And then at a certain point, my mom learned about a recipe which, gosh, I should have looked this up in a homemade life because I wrote about it in a homemade life. It's a cranberry chutney so it's cooked. It starts with raw cranberries you add to it I think apricot jam or apricot preserves, crystallized ginger, a little bit of cloves, a bunch of stuff. It sounds pretty gnarly when I'm describing it and it's so delicious. It's
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:40
like the holidays in a in a chutney. Yeah, you're
Molly 13:43
making like, basically like a savory chunky cranberry jam. Almost my ideal Thanksgiving table would have both my dad's cranberry relish and my mom's Cranberry Chutney
Matthew Amster-Burton 13:55
Nice. Yeah, yeah. See what I what appeals to me about this is like, I don't want to really eat more than like a spoonful of either of these things. But I love the idea of them of like, the the ritual and the aroma of having them being made while while I'm in like a warm holiday home.
Molly 14:13
Yes. Right. Yeah. What about cranberry sauce from the can?
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:17
Okay, that was that was like a key part of Thanksgiving when I was growing up. It was never really much about eating it. We would always like you know, take a bite of it, but it was like seeing it like retain the shape of the can that was very important. Was it sliced?
Molly 14:32
Okay, yeah, so it was served like turned out of the can and then sliced into rounds. Yep. Okay.
Matthew Amster-Burton 14:38
And then the other memory lane is just like I feel like almost since we've been married. I feel like around this time of year, I will always find a pound of cranberries in the fridge or the freezer or both. Because why for this show. Laurie has a big cranberry fan and has some sort of plan for them. Okay, and we'll talk we'll talk later about what those plans might be.
Molly 14:57
So I grew up with with my mom And, and dad kind of scorning the canned cranberry sauce. However as an adult when I have encountered it when it has been when it is arrived on the Thanksgiving table where I have
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:11
considered where you have inter loped That's right.
Molly 15:15
I really enjoy it like it's its own thing yeah total I really like it
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:18
we did we mentioned last week that it counts as an upside down food because you invert the can and and shrug it out
Molly 15:25
shrug it out. Let's let's get version of hug it out
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:31
I'm extremely proud that I just came up with strung it out next time I'm like all worked up about something I'm gonna like remember to take a minute just shrug it out Matthew.
Molly 15:41
I remember when we should be therapists when you said shrug it out. I pictured the like the ribbing on the outside of the can as almost like you know the shrugging, shrugging of its little can shoulders.
Matthew Amster-Burton 15:56
Absolutely. Yes.
Molly 16:00
This is delightful. Okay, the last thing I want to say about my cranberry Memory Lane is that so when I was a kid, I think we were like visiting my brother it who lives in the Boston area. And my parents if we made it into a longer trip with sometimes like we'd go up into Maine for a couple days. Okay. And my parents found this little bed and breakfast that was run by this gay couple. I'm sure I've talked about this on the show. I think Tony and Jerry were their name sounds right. Anyway, they served breakfast each morning and tea. And those were the things that you know, those were the meals you had with your room. The desserts, they served with tea were like incredible, like, just you know, homemade cheese cake like the best you can imagine. Also, they made this cranberry Linzer tart. And I can't remember what was in the crust, the crust was sort of dark brown and really nubbly and almost crunchy like a cookie. And then the filling was very tart and very rich somehow even though it didn't have any dairy in it. Okay. And then you would make a lattice top and I say you would make a lettuce top because I remember my mom asked for the recipe and we tried to make it at home and oh my god, the dough is really hard to work with.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:15
Okay, so like a regular like linzer torte is is rasberry I think so. Okay, I think that's the thing my mom used to make but not not cranberry. No, this
Molly 17:25
was cranberry it was like deeply tart and also deeply rich somehow. Maybe it was like a really buttery crust. But it was incredible.
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:36
When when she what your promise was recipe did. Did she say everyone else is doing it? So I can't wait. That was the name of the cranberries album.
Molly 17:45
Matthew, I knew you'd find another way. Good job. Okay,
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:48
maybe that was the last one
Molly 17:49
I can't wait to happens next. Okay. What part of this research I'm actually gonna want to
Matthew Amster-Burton 17:57
visit yeah, there's a lot here. I think by the end, I'm gonna be like, looking up the names of tracks from like the cranberries like, you know, last final album in like, 2013 or something.
Molly 18:05
I'm gonna I'm gonna cut this down. Okay, so let's talk about what cranberries are taxonomy wise, these things are related to bilberries
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:15
Of course. I mean, you just look at bilberries and you're like, yeah, obviously a close relative. Also blueberries and Huckleberry. I have heard of those things. Okay, great. Great. Can we say some of these Latin names because there's some good one we're gonna get okay.
Molly 18:27
Okay, so the cranberry is a type of evergreen dwarf, shush.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:32
Shrug. It's a type of ever. Let's let's rub it out. Rub it rub it out. I know. But well I'm not gonna I'm not gonna yak yak your your rub.
Molly 18:51
All right. So cranberry is a group of evergreen dwarfs shrubs are trailing vines.
Matthew Amster-Burton 18:57
What is a trailing vine? Sure. Like I picture a very evocative term but I don't know what it's evoking. Exactly because like I'm not sure it's what it is like to you are trailing from Yeah, I don't seems like it makes you feel like like the shrub is like walking somewhere and like trailing vines behind it as it moves. But I suspect that's not what it's grain of a wedding tree. Exactly. Yes. Okay.
Molly 19:21
All right. All cranberry is from the sub genus oxy oxic caucus oxy caucus of the genus Vaccinium Vaccinium Vaccinium. There are four to five species of cranberry. Although in northern North America, the ones we see most often are Matthew Vaccinium oxic Cockos and that's the common cranberry, northern cranberry or just what we call the cranberry
Matthew Amster-Burton 19:48
Vaccinium microcars Karten. Okay, shrug it out. But axon microcarpa. That's called the small cranberry Vaccinium macrocarpon or Toxic caucus macro carpus
Molly 20:01
that's the large cranberry, the American cranberry or sometimes called the bear Berry. Okay. Bear berry if
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:08
you never met a couple of weeks ago ate bear
Molly 20:11
berries probably okay. So basically, as you might have figured out by now the Cranberry Fruit is a berry. Yeah. And it starts out light green, and it turns red when it's ripe, and it's extremely acidic. In fact, the acidic flavor of it sometimes overwhelms its sweetness i feel
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:29
like cranberries are one of those foods that is that has like a dangerous allure because you know you look at a cranberry it's so round it's so red. It's so plump you just want to pop some in your mouth
Molly 20:42
but you but you just can't I think it would give you some real sores. Yeah, I
Matthew Amster-Burton 20:46
mean, I think there probably are there are some eccentrics who do but it's not for me. It's not satisfying. I
Molly 20:52
feel like it's like a like a like a stunt. Yeah, most cranberries like 95% are processed into products like jam or sauce or juice or they're dried and only like the remainder like maybe 5% are sold fresh
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:06
and I imagine it's mostly juice and craisins the things we're not talking about I think so at this point the only thing is we're not talking about
Molly 21:16
Matthew is Mr. entomology available Mr.
Matthew Amster-Burton 21:19
Etymology has just entered the chat
Mr etymology would like you to know that the name cranberry derives from the middle Low German it Kron Barrett, the English translation crane berry first named as cranberry in the English language by the missionary John Eliot in 1647. The traditional English name for the plant more common in Europe Vaccinium oxic. Cockos is Fen berry so named because it was found growing in thin marshlands in England, did you know that there is an archaic word cran that is a unit of measure referring to a specific large quantity of herring. Really? Yes,
Molly 22:03
that's so interesting.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:04
This is like a, like a, you know, fun fact that I learned many, many years ago and periodically look up just to just to see whether that could could have possibly been a real thing. And it is, I
Molly 22:14
wonder why the word cran came to be associated with this particular like, measurement or this fish or whatever.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:20
I don't know it doesn't doesn't say here in Mr. etymologies notes.
Molly 22:24
Matthew, I'm going to skip ahead for a minute to talk about how cranberries are grown because we're talking about this whole like trailing vine problem.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:33
Not a problem for the vine, it might be
Molly 22:35
useful to be able to like really picture how these things grow.
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:38
I'm glad you said that because I know there's a bog involved. I don't really know what that is, or like how it works.
Molly 22:44
I've always found this really confusing. And and so we're gonna we're gonna
Matthew Amster-Burton 22:48
The only thing you want to know the only thing to know about Boggs is that Jerry Cantrell of Allison chains had a solo album called buggy depot, which I've never listened to. But I've always remembered the name because it's such a good name. And it sounds like what Jerry Cantrell sort of looks and sounds like so
Molly 23:04
I want you to know that well, while we're on the topic of bogs, I started thinking about bog people or bog
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:11
bodies. When I was researching this, is that just like a dead body, you find it a bog well,
Molly 23:16
so there's something about so so bogs are primarily like peat. Okay, and there's something about the acidity of them or maybe the name of the bog owl person alkalinity 20 of them, okay. But anyway, there's something about the conditions of a bog that basically preserve a body Oh, really? Well, basically, they like tan A body. They don't preserve the bones so often, like these bodies that are found in
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:45
our just like human sac.
Molly 23:48
Which episode was that when
Matthew Amster-Burton 23:50
we use a long time ago,
Molly 23:51
it is one of my favorite of our old jokes. Running bit yeah, bog bodies are fascinating. And actually what so when I was 14, one of my cousins was studying abroad in northern Germany. Okay. And my mom took me for spring break to go visit her. I remember her host mother thought it would be super fun for us to go to a museum and see the bog bodies
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:17
there. Wow.
Molly 24:18
And what I remember you're
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:19
gonna say that she thought it would be super fun for you like go out into the fence and find some five bodies like like, you know, your own version of the movie stand by me.
Molly 24:28
That's right. Well, that's what I wanted to do. Sure, but we didn't have enough time. Okay, you have to really a lot sometimes. You have to bring some like really good boots and waiters and I'm out. Anyway, what I was going to say is that I remember there being like, you know the plaques but there'd be like a diorama basically or you know, like in the body would be displayed almost inside like a bog setting. Oh, wow. In this museum,
Matthew Amster-Burton 24:54
oh my god.
Molly 24:55
It was really cool. And there was like a plaque beside it. That of course will tell you about The body but also, I remember,
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:03
like rising up out well, you see the hair like the hair
Molly 25:06
was perfectly preserved. And these people had quite like distinctive hairstyles. I think these were like, people. remember there being a little plaque that talked about like how this hairstyle would have been achieved by the Vikings. It was like a particular kind of like top knot, or a particular kind of braid situation. And I remember my cousin and I went back to her host family's house, and got a major case of like, the the teenage giggles, trying to do our hair or so what you're saying, Yeah, dressers would have
Matthew Amster-Burton 25:38
done it. That is amazing. Yeah. So back to the thinking about bogs. Okay, so we're gonna get to the part of like cranberry harvesting where they have to, like, push aside all the bodies, right?
Molly 25:49
Okay. Okay. So cranberries grow in acidic bogs throughout the cooler regions. They say that they were alkaline, like, I couldn't remember whether they were assuming or alkaline. Whatever. The vast majority of cranberries are grown in the US, Canada and Chile. Okay, Chile is not in the northern hemisphere. This is confusing. That's a good point. Anyway, in the US, the biggest producers are Wisconsin, followed by Massachusetts and Oregon. This all checks out right? These would be cool regions of the states. So here's the deal. A common misconception is that the cranberry beds are flooded like throughout the year that like cranberries are growing like in an in a baggy bog,
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:28
like like they're like a like a kelp. That's
Molly 26:32
right. But here's the thing during the growing season, the cranberry beds are not actually flooded. They I mean, they are
Matthew Amster-Burton 26:40
weight is the is the bog body when you saw the bog bodies did would you describe them as resemble like a zombie.
Molly 26:48
I see what you're doing. I see what you're doing. Thank you, you're okay.
During the growing season, the cranberry bed is not flooded. It's just irrigated to you know, maintain soil moisture. That said these cranberry beds have been planted in an area that either has like a really high water table or is you know, bog like okay, this so that when they are flooded, like manually flooded in the autumn. It's easy to do
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:26
when when they're manually flooded. Did they just turn on a big hose?
Molly 27:30
When I said manually flooded? I mean, I don't really know. I don't know. But anyway, the beds are flooded in the autumn because it facilitates the harvest. And they're flooded again during the winter because it helps protect the plants in low temperatures. So the vast majority of the time that cranberries are growing on the plant. They're not growing in what looks like a bog. Okay, so
Matthew Amster-Burton 27:51
why do they flood it? Okay,
Molly 27:53
so here's the deal. So when they're harvested in the fall, well, I guess growers know that they're ready to be harvested because they take on that deep red color. Right? And this happens usually after the first frost that said, Matthew, there are berries that don't really get very much sun and those stay pale pink or white. Which is oh how we can get like white cranberry juice,
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:15
right? I yeah, I was gonna say I think I've seen pictures of white cranberries, but I might just be thinking of like the front of the Ocean Spray white cranberry juice bottle.
Molly 28:24
Harvest usually takes place from September to the first part of November and what they do is the beds are flooded. Okay, this does seem manual, doesn't it?
Matthew Amster-Burton 28:33
We sleep when the beds are flooded. My favorite cranberries. Midnight Oil, oil. Yeah.
Molly 28:41
Okay. All right. So here's what happens. The beds are flooded with six to eight inches of water above the vines. Okay. Okay, so a lot. And then this harvester and I don't have a diagram for you or anything but just imagine it's some sort of farm machinery. Yeah, a harvester is driven through the beds to basically remove the fruit from the vines.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:04
That's what I was wondering. But yeah, flooding is all about like kind of knocking the berries loose and making them float. Okay,
Molly 29:10
well, but they still have to be knocked off the vine. Oh, sure. Sure. But then what happens is the harvest of cranberries obviously they float right. And they are corralled, I guess probably using a different type of machine or something into a corner of the bed where they are then folded into the sheets. Yeah. They are then like either conveyed or pumped from the bed.
Matthew Amster-Burton 29:33
Okay, this is pretty cool. Isn't it? Cool? All right. Anything else harvested this way?
Molly 29:38
I don't know. Maybe Bill berries, maybe? I don't know. Anyway, most cranberries are picked this way. But like five to 10% of the US crop is dry picked. Okay, which is way more expensive with a lower yield. So why did they do it? Well, they do it because the fruit harvested this way is less reused and can be sold as fresh fruit.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:02
Oh, sure, well, we get a bag of cranberries from the store, those are probably dry picked rather than say,
Molly 30:09
I'm guessing because basically all the ones that are bogged flooded then go to be like, processed into other forms. So I think that probably the same way that like if if a farmers crop, if farmer's field gets flooded, he can't sell the crops that are in it. I think for like food safety reasons, right? Sure. It does seem logical.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:30
I'm not I'm not getting along. Yep. That's that's probably how it works.
Molly 30:34
I mean, I think so because our CSA newsletter like when there's a lot of flooding on the farm, I mean, they they basically like just lose entire fields of crops. That sucks. I think it's a food safety thing. Okay. But I don't know for certain, but it would make sense to me if Yeah, what we get fresh in the store is dry picked. But I don't know for sure.
Matthew Amster-Burton 30:54
That makes sense. I mean, they're certainly more expensive than the equivalent amount of like cranberry juice cocktail.
Molly 30:59
Sure, sure. Before we talk about what we do with it, I do want to talk a little bit about the history of it, because this fruit has a really long history in North America, and is obviously like tied up in a lot of like the mythology of the early days. Okay, Colonial America,
Matthew Amster-Burton 31:17
that's gonna come up next week. Also, it is well not like American colonialism, but like other British colonialism. So in North
Molly 31:25
America, the Narragansett people of the Algonquin nation in the regions of New England, they used cranberries in pemmican. Sure, as far as I understand, it is like a mixture of tallow dried meat and dried fruits. Yeah. And I think it could be on its own or used in other things. So the Narragansett people probably introduced cranberries to the British colonists in Massachusetts. In the book, the land of Virginia by James Rosier, there's an account of Europeans coming on shore and being met with Native Americans bearing bark cups full of cranberries. Okay. It's a very, very lovely image if it is true. in Plymouth, Massachusetts, there is a 1633 account of the husband of Mary ring, shunning her cranberry dyed petticoat for 16 shillings.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:17
Like Like, what was she wearing it at the time?
Molly 32:21
Yes, no, I'm not sure. In 1643 the book a key into the language of America by Roger Williams described cranberries referring to them as bear berries. Roger Williams, founder of Rhode Island that I don't know. I'm like that, really? So I would have no idea. I think you're gonna like this one. Matthew. In 1667, New Englanders sent to King Charles 10 barrels of cranberries, three barrels of codfish and some Indian corn as a means of appeasement for his anger over their local coining of the pine tree shilling.
Matthew Amster-Burton 32:55
Hmm. Did they? Did they stop coining the shilling or did they just like trying to distract later with cranberry? I
Molly 33:00
think they just tried to distract him with cranberry to work. I'm not sure but I feel like this could have been the beginning of like a 12 Days of Christmas song like oh barrels of cranberries, three barrels of cod fish so on and so forth. Yeah, a cranium, herring. Okay, so there's a bunch of other stuff I could say. There's a lot of history of cranberry. They're
Matthew Amster-Burton 33:19
sure skip ahead. Wait, can you read this part about sauce for the pilgrims?
Molly 33:24
Okay, so this is from the 1672 book New England rarities discovered by Johnny Jocelyn. He described cranberries thusly, sauce for the pilgrims. Cranberry or bear Berry is a small trailing plant that grows in salt marshes that are overgrown with moss. The berries are a pale yellow color afterwards red as big as a cherry. It's a small cherry, some perfectly round, others oval all of them hollow with sour astringent taste. They are ripe in August and September. They are excellent against the scurvy. Wait,
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:00
can you read one more sentence
Molly 34:01
please. They are also good to allay the fervor of hoof diseases.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:05
What do you use today to allay the fervor of Hope diseases? I don't know. I just liked the phrase sauce for the Pilgrims like they were serving the Pilgrims with this as a sauce.
Molly 34:19
I haven't noticed.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:20
Like you do not want to serve just like a dry pilgrim on a plate. You gotta get some sauce on that bad boy.
Molly 34:26
Yeah, there's not a lot of meat on a typical pilgrims.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:29
Okay, and you should take the buckle hat first.
Molly 34:33
In 1787 Oh, James Madison wrote Thomas Jefferson in France for background information on constitutional government to use at the Constitutional Convention. You may have heard of this thing? Yeah. Jefferson sent back a number of books on the subject and then return asked for a gift of apples pecans and cranberries.
Matthew Amster-Burton 34:52
I imagine like like we're leaning really hard into like sorta like like Mark Russell like, like, political humor territory, but I imagine Did James like Thomas Jefferson getting this letter from Madison about like you got any ideas on constitutional government at Jefferson say, Well, you have come to the right place. And masters like oh shit I shouldn't have asked. That's how it went down. That's how it went down. Anyway, that is the musical Hamilton.
Molly 35:17
It seems like the first cranberries like the first cultivated cranberries were grown around the 1816 near Cape Cod seems like in the 1820s they were shipped to New York and Boston and from there went on to Europe probably started a cranberry craze. Yeah, probably Korean Craisins Yep, yeah, by 1900 there were almost 22,000 acres of cranberries under cultivation in New England. Okay, so that's that's a lot of cranberries in under 100 years.
Matthew Amster-Burton 35:47
Sure. I'm so glad you explained like the the bogging process Yeah, because because I never knew well and
Molly 35:54
it never occurred to me that like that you could have well I think what I don't understand is Yes, I understand that some of the reason why they're planted where they are is because the water table is high and so I don't know if it means that they like that it like naturally turns into a bog at a certain time of year or what but it is really interesting that somehow they figured out that like the a normal good way to harvest these things is to have them float in Yeah, I imagine
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:21
that's probably probably like you know, people like long long before colonists arrived noticed okay, like sometimes this floods and the cran some of the cranberries fall off and float to the top and we can grab them and then like turn that over time into into an industrial process. Yeah,
Molly 36:37
that sounds right. So okay, all right. Let's talk about what we do with these things. Oh, finally.
Matthew Amster-Burton 36:42
So why for this show Laurie as I mentioned big cranberry fan doesn't do like a ton of cranberry baking just because like no one else in the family is as into cranberries as she is but two things that she makes regularly and I gotta say I do like both of them are cranberry streusel shortbread bars from fine cooking magazine. I will link to both of these appear on people's blogs. We'll link to both of them and then the other one and this is an incredible coincidence is the cranberry upside down cake from Nigella Lawson's how to be a domestic goddess, which we mentioned last week and the upside down food episodes for her supper onion pie. So now we're down recipes from that same Nigella Lawson cookbook. Two weeks in a row.
Molly 37:25
Mind blown. Yep. Wow. Wow. My mom also used to make a cranberry upside down cake. I think her recipe came from Bon appetit. Okay, so that's about it and ages so you know mostly what I do with cranberries is cranberry sauce. I make that Cranberry Chutney often but gosh, I'm thinking that this year I might make cranberry relish love that okay, yeah. I don't really use raw cranberries other than that. There you go. Maybe there Yeah, okay. Okay. Okay, so Matthew, do you ever does Laurie ever use cranberries when it's like not the holidays I dish every
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:00
only when there's like a bag that like went into the freezer and got like you know, I put like a Trader Joe's tray in front of it for at it and we forgot about him for a while and then like they get discovered in February or March and turn into streusel bars.
Molly 38:15
There is something interesting about like thinking about the flavor of cranberry it really for me is so strongly associated with the holidays. I think that I don't know I think I really never have anything cranberry any other time and I wonder if I did if it would feel like I was getting to like revisit like a Christmas in July sort of Exactly. What's wrong? Like I feel like I should only eat cranberries when it's cold out.
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:41
It's like how when producer Abby gets mad at me when I watch a Hallmark Christmas movie in like October. And you do too. Oh, I
Molly 38:48
don't think you should ever watch. Crystal war
Matthew Amster-Burton 38:50
on Christmas is happening early this year, I guess. Okay, I love Hallmark Christmas movies. We watched one recently about like a pie contest, like a pumpkin pie contest. And the woman who like like the heroine of the picture was entering this pumpkin pie contest but it never made a pumpkin pie before and was like you know wasting time flirting with this with his like, you know, hunky guy in town like up until like the day before the pie contest. I was so stressed out it was great movie.
Molly 39:22
I think I would watch one like with you guys, but I wouldn't like by yourself. I wouldn't choose it. Okay, Matthew, do we have any spilled mail this week?
Matthew Amster-Burton 39:32
We sure do
we have two related questions in a wild coincidence we ready for this? Yes listener Bryden writes I believe listener Brian is the one with the fountain pen. Do not did not write that with with the fountain pen you can email I got a question for you and Molly. I recently found myself making mapo tofu using friend of the show J Kenji Lopez alt recipe turned out fantastic. but instead of using ground beef, I swapped it for ground bison, nothing against ground beef, but I prefer bison for the leanness and flavor in some applications and I live where bison is readily available. So my question is, is there an ingredient in your pantry or wherever you keep ingredients that you often use to swap out in a written recipe either due to preference or as a regional variation, keep up the good work. And then this just came in, I think yesterday from listeners zohore, who writes when I was about 13 or so we used to often have breaded and fried zucchini slices as part of our meals sounds sounds like a like a good upbringing. One day I tried to make them myself but we didn't have any zucchini and I thought what else is crunchy green with a mild fever, so I tried to use cucumbers The result was not good. What are the most surprising substitutions you've made when cooking? Were they successful or a disaster? Is there a substitution to a recipe that you've made and consider so superior that you always make it this way? Now love the show zahar. Oh, good question. Right. Are answered my answers at least are not going to live up to the quality of these questions. Yeah,
Molly 41:00
no, me neither. Okay, to go back to Brian's question. First of all, I have had ground bison where it at ranch lands where I teach and share time, they run a herd of conservation like a conservation herd of bison. Sure. Sweet bison there and it is really really tasty. Something that I'm thinking of is so I love the Julia tertian cookbook, simply Julia and I know I've mentioned the the fishcakes in that book, she calls for canned salmon, which, of course is easy to get readily available. I always substitute fresh salmon, because we can get it here. I don't know if that is considered like a preference or a regional variation. Yeah. But to me, it makes a big difference. And I can get, you know, fairly reasonably priced
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:48
fresh Sam Yeah. One of the perks of living in Seattle. Yes.
Molly 41:51
What about you? Two things.
Matthew Amster-Burton 41:53
First of all, I will like freely substitute sour cream for Greek yogurt or vice versa. And in a recipe that doesn't seem very creative, but like, you know, there's there's gonna be like some kind of fermented dairy thing in the fridge. And like, if I don't have the exact one that the recipe calls for, it'll probably be fine. When listeners are asked about like surprising substitutions. This isn't really a substitution. It's more of a surprising combination that I remember as being kind of a formative cooking moment for me, which was like before I'd really learned to cook at all. I got some like beef ravioli from Trader Joe's and combine them with like a Thai green curry sauce from Trader Joe's. And I was like, okay, like now, I'm kind of like an avant garde Cook, and it was very tasty. Oh, wow.
Molly 42:39
Have you made it since?
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:40
No. Oh, this was probably like 1997. Okay.
Molly 42:43
Okay. You know, I'm trying to think of surprising substitutions.
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:47
Like what have you substituted bilberries for cranberry? Oh, that
Molly 42:51
is that's going rogue I see I'm
Matthew Amster-Burton 42:53
more likely to just leave something out, then substitute. Like, if it's a main ingredient, I'll probably make a probably substitute a different recipe for the recipe I was going to make. I agree.
Molly 43:02
And I think that a lot of the substitutions that I'm thinking of that I make for the sake of convenience, or because of what I have around are just not not as interesting as what listeners Ohara is asking about. Yeah. For instance, you mentioned Greek yogurt, sour cream, etc. I often substitute kind of whisked up mixture of plain yogurt and milk for buttermilk. Sure. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that like mashed banana mashed pumpkin and like applesauce, those things are interchangeable for me in like, okay, goods, which is, you know, I mean, they're always there to provide a little bit of flavor, but also a lot of moisture away. Could
Matthew Amster-Burton 43:41
you make a pumpkin pie using only applesauce? I think that'd be terrible. Can I tell you something that happened to me recently, what as you as you may know, because I mentioned it on the show as often as possible, we belong to a pie club, and our pie lasts this month. Last month was was a black bottom pumpkin pie. And I am not a pumpkin pie fan. Like I don't like it. But this was like the first pumpkin pie that I really liked. And it's not just because it was chocolate, like the the texture of the pumpkin was like the least gluey I've ever had. And like I went back for like seconds of this pumpkin pie and I was I didn't know who I was anymore. Wow. Okay, very cool. Okay, great question. Sorry, we
Molly 44:21
didn't have great answers. Sorry. Weird. Yeah, I feel I feel kind of boring in these answers. Oh, well, Matthew, do you have a now but wow, this week
Matthew Amster-Burton 44:28
I do.
This is a very niche pick. So this. This is called the get offset podcast. And if you are not a guitarist, this is not going to be for you. But I bet at least a couple of our listeners are hopefully more than a couple. So one of my favorite things to do is watch guitar YouTube. I find it extremely relaxing. However, the Guitar World as you might imagine, is extreme. ringlead dominated by sis white men, and this podcast is a happy exception and it is also Seattle based. So the hosts are Emily Harris and Joan of heart aka pedal Playhouse, and they are often joined or substituted with another local guitar YouTuber named Niecy Bell who has a great YouTube personality. This show is just super nerdy. It's about like cool guitars and guitar gear and like you know how to play better and like how to take a take care of and modify your guitar gear. The hosts have excellent rapport they are super, super smart. And even if this podcast isn't for you, I bet you might enjoy Niecy Bell's YouTube channel even if you don't play guitar just because like she is such a fun personality and plays awesome music on every one of her videos. So that's n i s e Bell B ll E on YouTube and or the get offset podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.
Molly 45:56
Nice. Our producer is Abby circuit tele
Matthew Amster-Burton 45:58
you can rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. And you
Molly 46:03
can also chat with other spilled milk listeners at everything spilled milk.reddit.com Thanks for listening to
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:12
spilled milk show I'm Bill berry former drummer Rob rem
Molly 46:20
and I'm Bear berry I'm so cute
let's get almost any says things like that is so attractive to me.
Matthew Amster-Burton 46:36
Yeah, I feel like if I were the Bachelor on on a bachelor show like first of all, they're they're like keep calling me and asked me to be the Bachelor on The Bachelor show. Like I would run out of things to say like in the first 10 minutes, right?
Molly 46:51
Well no, you just keep repeating things like your empathy reminds me of my deceased ex wife. Wow. Or no my deceased wife. Sorry. Yikes. That's the other thing with the bachelor. He's dead. Nobody's ever divorced on the golden bachelor.